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swift · 01-19-2009, 07:30 PM,

Malak, that is not the way to go. This here attitude is just the thing I refer to in some parts of my posts. It just is not nice, pardon me sounding like a child from the kindergarten.
Be that as it may, that there are people on the server who do not care about RP, there are those that are just misguided.
I for one, when I joined, did not join with the intention to RP. But at least I had a respect for others.
With time, my sense of RP evolved, and I realised just why it is so fun, and nowadays I try to explain it to every newbie out there that I come across.
I sometimes get shouted on, cussed on, and I just try to look past that if I deem that they just need some help.
And indeed, I do get apologies from people, and am proud to say I know at least 10 players whom I helped turn into good and solid additions to the community.

Furthermore, the people you talk about do not read this topic, so do not insult all the people here trying to make everything better, whatever you wanted it to sound like.
Just think before you post, think what it is like for the person who stumbles onto your post, and judge it and edit it accordingly.

I feel that with this post, and all my previous ones here, along with my voicing of certain issues throughout my time here at disco, I have said all I wish to say.
Of course, eventually when I have something else I deem valuable to say, I will post it here.

<span style="font-family Tongue

alatino Linotype">

All morons hate it when you call them a moron.

The CFF

CFF Communication Channel and RP Collection

01-19-2009, 07:42 PM,

*snip*

Not the thread for this. -DL

EDIT:~whatever, he misunderstood my point, then to say i am un American, pfft.

was trying to explain what happens when we have rule changes and flew things. bah, screw it.

go admins! you're doing a great job.

Fellow Hoodlum · 01-19-2009, 07:50 PM,

Three pages, and off-topic already, not good form really is it, and a little disrespectful to those with genuine
concerns. Keep it on track, or as asked for by Laowai, I will just lock it.

Hood

Some say he is a proud member of: "The most paranoid group of people in the Community."

Doom · (This post was last modified: 01-19-2009, 08:25 PM by Doom.)

' Wrote:1. Rules vs Admin notices
- new rules used to and sometimes still are being introduced after wishes of the community. Which is why I don't like any "admin notices" that basically come with extra rules that are at least controversial and mostly don't have wide-community support. Even more problematic is people getting sanctioned for these non-existing or half-written rules.

2. Sanctioning
- specially in the controversial cases, it's more than enough to issue a warning , similar approach should imo be used against first-time offenders and newbies to the community/roleplay.

first example that I found in the sanction thread, how it probably shouldn't be done:
http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=28980
3. "ooRP" ships/loadouts/behaviour
- from a newbie's perspective it is really impossible to know what he can/can't use, new selling locations will help with this, but as long as the rule stays the same it will not be easy.

Therefore a list of allowed/not-allowed ships/ids or even equipment/id combinations should be finished.

Mjolnir basically said exact same thing i was going to write after reading whole thread.

I always thought it would be logical to give strict punishment to "older" player (older means longer here with us) or the one who is repeated offender. Older also means that he had more time to learnor read the rules and to get himself acquainted with the community.

All new players should go by with a warning, or in more severe cases with lesser punishment.
Most new players come here to play and check out the best mod there if for FL, and not to break any rules. Most of them dont know that we have very strict rules.

Admins must take that into consideration.

I play here for 3 years and i barely can keep up with rules changes or admin notices. I have two maybe three hours to play per day, and i don't intend to read new appendix's to the rules for hour or two.

I, personally respect our admins. They deserve that. However, i expect same from them. I give them benefit of the doubt, and again, i expect same from them. I can respect their opinion, but i dont need to agree with them. And if i dont agree, i am not afraid to express my opinion and fight for what i stand for.

We had discussions like this before and i will repeat same that i said back then (also as experienced admin):

Admins are here for the players, not other way around. Admins are here to help us, not to punish us. But if few do provoke them (break the rule), they deserve what will fall upon them.

I think that disco has too much rules. But i also use common sense when i am playing. Not all do that. So we have rules that we have...to keep minority at bay.

Players, members....do we really need to report every single little rule break that you see? I guess we all were born very smart and all high and mighty, so we really don't have time for those pesky mortals who just joined our community, so that we cant learn them even basic rules?

This issue isnt all about the admins...we have a lot to do with it...

swift · 01-19-2009, 08:40 PM,

Yes, has to do with admins, but is not about them solely. As the title says, -Discovery- Feedback Thread, and I think that title is put there on purpose.

Doom, that is basically what I say about new players, while even offering my own example.
There are many ways how people find out about disco, and then hop in-game. Most are in such a hurry to see what it is all about that they skip important steps like joining the forum, reading rules, consulting with others etc. etc.
So basically what I say, is give newbies the benefit of the doubt. If they prove to have a good attitude, willingness to learn, who knows what kind of awesome contributions to the community they can make, only if they are instructed on how to play properly.
For those very, and I really mean very few that come here to cause mayhem, they should be sanctioned severely if they break the rules often.
For these new ones that mistakenly break a rule, a warning is enough.

And also, I think it has been said once that a sort of "seminar" for rule breakers would be good. In there, people who volounteer could show those people the real way to play, show them the fun of RP, which people without experience discard as being boring and second to PvP. I am sure that many individuals here would be willing to help, including myself here.
"Mentoring" one new player is a very easy and not so time consuming thing to do.
Imagine what we could do with this server if only 5 players daily were taught the true meaning of this server, and talked to nicely and taught.
Just imagine. This may seem idealistic and what not, but surely you see something good about this.
As a community, we need to pool our resources, work together, and make Discovery a better place.
Start by being nice to each other here, respecting one another, and greatness can be achieved. After that start, who knows into what it can evolve.

We could have a reputation of a server that is very newbie friendly, and not our current mostly undeserved reputation of a "good server, but where there are too many rules".

Incentives and motivation people.

<span style="font-family Tongue

alatino Linotype">

All morons hate it when you call them a moron.

The CFF

CFF Communication Channel and RP Collection

Unseelie · 01-19-2009, 10:51 PM,

Sanctions, are...Over the top, as has been discussed...something about the violation reports, is they could be a teaching tool, and once were. The new mode is to post a snip of the rule they broke, as explanation for why they merited the sanction to the community. Anyone reading will know not to break, say, rule 3.5, but of course, they knew that already. If what they actually did, in context, was said, rather than, 'They broke rule 3.5" instead, one could say "You cannot tell people that you are actually Hoodlum, and as such, should be obeyed."

Such statements rather than, or in addition to the rule quotes, will allow the community to come to understand better what is and is not allowed, and how the rules are interpreted.

There's been a lot of admin hostility around, and some of it really does bother me. There seems to be, and has been, for a very long time, an attitude voiced by the admins that the admin group is sacrosanct, and that the admins protect their own, that they cannot be wrong, and that anyone accusing them of being wrong simply doesn't understand.

Moreover, I agree with getting approval votes for each admin, as I fear a lot of people vote yes purely because the admin team appointed them, but, given the turnover of this community, I think a new vote every year is a bit too long...Perhaps, every mod(if they speed up), or every 6 months..

Blackstarr · (This post was last modified: 01-20-2009, 04:48 AM by Blackstarr.)

Alright.. Here I go *starts with the rant*.. im sorry if this sounds like a flame

I am okay with most of the admins. Igiss, you have pleased me many times… you stay out of the politics pretty much.. And have helped me out on many occasions.

Caylith and Xoria.. I have had a few bad encounters with the two of you., but mostly you have done your jobs without any error.

Kuraine - You are my favorite admin of them all... if i ever have a problem.. i go to you for advice... and 75% of the time.. you help alot

Alright.. Here is where my opinion really sets in.

Hood and Del… No… just no….

Del… you used to be cool… I liked you… we may have had a few hostile encounters before you were an admin… but other than that… we got along… I made you mad a few times… you made me mad a few times… it was all good.

But then you became an admin… it went downhill from there. The power you now hold I believe has gotten to your head. You lock personally reasonable topics… and you are mostly hostile to most of the community….. You turned into a second Hoodlum… Just… no..

Hoodlum… oh god here we go…… I have disliked you for as long as I can remember, None of the decisions you have made I have ever agreed with. You and your “Banhammer” need to lighten up… there isn’t any time I have ever seen you post… that you hadn’t sounded cruel.. Except for the random joke posts you occasionally post in flood. You have an evil mentality to you… your avvie matches your attitude and your ego perfectly… dark and sinister… and I personally don’t like it.

EDIT: and i mean your ORIGINAL avie with the black sillouette and the glowing green eyes... i am not phased by your futile attempt to look cute and fuzzy >.>

The other admins (not including the new ones) I have had very little encounters with.. Therefore I cant judge them.

The new ones?…. Just make sure you guys don’t turn into another Hood… I have high hopes for you.

LoTeK_ · (This post was last modified: 01-20-2009, 07:13 AM by LoTeK_.)

"Some say he have an evil mentality and that his avvie matches his attitude and his ego perfectly… dark and sinister…"
+1 to Hood from me, if I have to, he is doing well.
Some "gentlemen" just listen to certain types of languages, being kind do not work with them unless you are searching the opposite effect.

What I would like to see resolved is the battleship/faction (or how do you call it) problem, that add a lot of burden on faction leaders having to deal with offenders in a long and unpleasant (for both sides) way to see it resolved, wasting a lot of time in silly rp forum battles (that are no fun to me at least, if fun is the key word) that can be used elsewhere, from faction administration purposes to ingame partecipation.
But I'll be probably dust already when that will happen, isn't it?

From one side you say factions should not have control over it, but on the other side everyone report to faction leaders when one is found and faction leaders have to do something anyway, it's a calvary...

Why not make forum paperworks mandatory for it at least? Like some Neverwinter Nights 2 shards that implement full roleplay, and require backgrounds to be sent to admins (or a faction leaders council, if you prefere, with or without admins in it) even before entering the server.
Without going on something a bit too much complex like that, the roleplay forum section would fit the case actually, everyone can read there.

If this is an english server then it's logical to think a player who is not able to write a background for his battleship do not have the necessary knowledge to actually roleplay her ingame up to her standards, no?

Kambei · 01-20-2009, 12:20 AM,

I am orthodox fan of short bans instead of fining guns(if fined isnt trader or havent trader at same acc) because guns are cheap and it solve noting.

1. law violence: warning, notification in cargo hold, repairing of crap stuff (removing OOC guns for example).

2. second law violence: 1 - 2 days BAN (because what is worst if you cant play?)

3. third and more law violence... vell that is called recidivism and should be punished with deletig of all known ships and if it was brutal law violence long term BAN

01-20-2009, 12:27 AM,

Personally, I agree with the whole "re-elect admins, yus!" idea.

However.

Voting. Does. Not. Work.

10% vote yes.
10% vote no.
80% vote yes since they don't give a damn.

= 90% yes, admins get elected.

Not good.

I'm not entirely sure of how it could be done to be entirely just and/or fair, but voting isn't the way to go.

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