Discovery 5.1 Dev Diary #3 - More System Changes & Other Things

[Lemon]

Dumb question - why balance cruisers around duels at all? Same for BCs - who even duels these in real game anymore?

[Uknown]

If anything, going for the components with bow chasers is just as good when executed properly, which is at the moment slightly more difficult than shooting the center with the stern chasers, exactly to deter ships from slamming face-on into each other with no strategy in mind.

"When executed properly" ...
Seems you trait all people like a boss on crusiers, and even @JadeTornado can tell you, people not always is able to "Execute properly" when a duel, nor on a fight, so ... while on the demostration it looks "awesome" the reality is again too different, you can't compare again a player with mid-skill on such vs a player which is a high skilled one, add the factor of "network management" plus some other missing things like ship shape, and differences in other specialities, plus the loadout, while it could be interested not always the people has been able to fit that "execution" in a "properly way" due how the battle outcome, still, while i belive they need some changes, i just belive i miss the old ship works before those updates, add the modules and some mixtures are really great, but, not in the way did on battlecrusiers ...

The work is really nice, but has the gun modify a real need change? (talking on BC now every BC only has 10 guns at disposal, and before we had a varierity of guns to make almost any ship looks and feel really good)
The modules and thrusting changes on those are a real good addition, but the gun amount and how they behave are not!
Why not just add the modules and thrusting options to everyone and leaving the ships how they are supposed to be? (and for god sake, give me back the BC old good times! and not this battlecrusiers can't withstand with 2 guns shooting due low core recharge) ¬¬

(AND for GOD's SAKE, DON'T TOUCH THE DAMN CORES UNLESS YOU GOING TO BE BUFFING THEM ALONG ALL CAPITAL SHIPS!) ...

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✨ ⇝ Nanosinx#1541 ⇜ ✨

[JadeTornado]

@"0xCosmin" @Dark Chocolate @Sarwar Perhaps my description was a bit misleading, let me clarify.

I can see the reasons why some of these changes were done, but I can agree with them only partially. Some things I would do differently. But judging by the video, I would say we have to wait a bit and see it in-game before crossing out cruisers. It will be played differently, no doubt, but still playable, especially with a lot of room for adjustments.

The thing I'm worried about right now is the lack of information. As a caps beginner, sometimes I have no clue where to look for certain information, and it appears to be some post on the 11th page of some Dev's diary. It should be presented in-game in my opinion. For example, I would suggest to describe this: "There will be cruisers with more emphasis on a certain playstyle" as a part of the description of the ship's model, so a potential newbie would know what he's about to buy and what playstyle by-default would be the most effective/easiest to recreate on said ship. Of course it doesn't mean we should limit uniqueness in ships and different strategies in each of them. Right now, I have no other option than to buy each of them and learn in practice. Good thing that @Antonio is going to make us some guides, but many people can't figure out even the basics, to which we have no guides as well, unlike the ones for snub PVP (even if they are outdated). I can only recall @Levenna's guide for Lib cruiser (also outdated). That's disappointing and I will be glad to help with this to the best of my knowledge.

Dumb question - why balance cruisers around duels at all? Same for BCs - who even duels these in real game anymore?

I think it's because even in fleet battles you have mini-duels all the time against different ship classes, until someone makes a mistake and gets ganked. So making balance around 1v1s makes sense. Also you won't need or feel any kind of balance "in real game" when you catch a single ship of any class with 3 ships of any classes, with the exception of the heaviest capitals vs fighters, I guess. So why bother?

"When executed properly" ...

While you are right, I am convinced that the lack of information is the main problem in what you are describing. Not every player is able to understand the importance of "ship shape, and differences in other specialities, plus the loadout", despite the fact he may be playing the game for like 5+ years. False-positive conclusions when they try cheesy loadouts, and etc. I faced that a lot during my tournament. So just dropping an ideal balance/features won't help as much as you might expect it to help.
If you think I am some kind of boss, I'll tell you I never aim for components. Even in a battle of BCs, which is realatively slow, the time I need to switch between components, or lock into components of another ship, is just too high. I lose my awareness, the timings of turns, dodge poorly, my turrets are turning the wrong direction during that. God forbid you to miss the right component and start either clicking everything, or switching by the "next" button manually or with the help of a hotkey. Yes, you can auto-win by destroying two components of a BC even if you have less health, but overall I don't think it's a good feature. It's not "executed properly" by me, but if I still have a good chance to win - it's fine. 3% hull on the video is good enough.

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In a live role playing environment, you are not owed or mandated to be given a duel. Fights develop differently every time and people have varying degree of time to log on their hands or have their own plans.

Cap PVP discord server

[Haste]

Dumb question - why balance cruisers around duels at all? Same for BCs - who even duels these in real game anymore?

The primary goal of most of 5.1 is actually to address interclass balance problems, like say the fact that a Bretonia Destroyer can probably kill every larger cap in the game without taking hull damage. Defense turrets are just a way to have a "defender's advantage" in the class, like mines do for snubs and gunboats and BC heavies do for BCs. I think it's just generally good for a class to have an answer for another ship parking right on top of it and trying to facetank it. Even more so if that class has weak spots in the back in the form of engines. It naturally encourages a little bit more playing at range, poking away and such in 1v1 and smaller scale fights, which I think is preferable over "point at enemy ship, thrust, hold right click with your most efficient guns until it dies".

The point of added complexity in the form of (things like) shield management is, as people have kind of noted in this thread, to add more mechanics for players to learn to master. Raise the skill ceiling. Since the shield drain goes away naturally when your shields are at 100%, it's not mandatory to even do, but it does obviously offer a big power boost if you learn to do it correctly. I think it's the right kind of depth to add to a class because it isn't absolutely mandatory to use, but is rewarding if you do decide to devote some time to learning it.

I do also think that making duels between all classes in the game fun is just healthy for the game. What's wrong with it being potentially enjoyable to match that one hostile capital ship in your ZoI with a capital ship of the same class, and just having a good old "contest of skill" to see who comes out on top? Sounds fun to me. We've been balancing snubs for both duels and groupfights for over a decade, mostly successfully, with a few exceptions (looking at you, light missiles). Why not try to do the same with every class in the game? I am also of the opinion that the lack of capital ship duels could very well be caused by previously underwhelming duel balance, and I could see them be more popular if we did manage to make duels a fun, dynamic, skill-based experience. A bit of a chicken vs egg situation.

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[Antonio]

So what happened to that idea of Haste with the destroyable engines for transports that cut their cruise in half ? Seems like that would be preferable to making them always slow. Is it a matter of just too much effort needed?

That's coming in the transport rework, though to address @Karst as well the main issue is that there are so many transports. If battleships are too much workload, imagine how many more transports of all kind there are. That's why transports are slowly getting changed bit by bit. First with Frigates and the Samura liner, soon with 5kers, then probably liners/battletransports, then the rest. Components are coming on larger transports for sure.

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SNAC Montage Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5 | Thruster SNAC

[Lord Chaos]

I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place, but I wanted to inquire about the possibility of additional game content.

Are there plans to introduce new areas, perhaps shifting focus away from the Uncharteds?
Will there be more PvE-oriented development, such as new battlegrounds or encounters?
Additionally, are there any plans for new equipment, such as items that regenerate energy or offer deeper power management like the shields idea?

Thank you to the entire team for your hard work and dedication. As always, Its my understanding that changes may please some players and not others, but change can often bring positive outcomes, even if not immediately apparent. Keep up the excellent work."

[Busy Miner]

Any chance to increase tradelane-speed?

[Chronicron]

I'll say it's coming somewhere in April

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