500 million fee

[Eppy]

I think Eppy and Virus and other pre-500million faction leaders would also complain bitterly at me for ensuring their diplomacies, shiplists, weaponlists and behaviour are up to the same standard that I would expect of any official faction. It's not like they get to abide by the old standard they must keep it up to date with current thought and feeling. I won't have it any other way. Any faction that fails to meet this standard can and does fall (very swiftly) by the wayside.

Oh and The Admin team decides what is official and unofficial, not you.

Actually, Del, we complied voluntarily when that came up the last time. In fact, 101st is about to do it again... -.-

---

Quick comment - we thought that Panzer was the Leader, Swift. -Agmen

Which Dreadnought was that?

One of your nine.

[SigCorps]

actually that is intersting. OSI being a shipping firm who bases out of Freport 9 and 11 would never need a system. It would go against our RP to own a whole system.

Also the option to buy a Barge instead of a system. That'll be made official very shortly. It's very unlikely to be turned down by the Admin team especuially as 5 have concurred already.

Are they dockable? or what is the advantage to owning a barge versus a system with stations?

---

Formerly Sam Nichols, creator of OSI

[Linkus]

Barge has it's huge cargo hold and it's survivability..
And that's it really. Unless they implemented dockable ships or jumpdrives.

Del, any words on this?

See, this confused me in regards to becoming Official:

Let me make this clear. No 500million, no official faction. Got it?

-Del

It states that without the fee, there is no official faction.

Also:

The 500 million is a deposit on the system purchase and is required to apply. It is not required to become official.

That doesn't make sense really. To apply is to apply to become Official, so yes the fee is required to become Official.

If a faction doesn't want a system when they apply, does that mean they can get a refund?

---

Facilitating the rise of robotics since 0 A.D.

[pipboy]

Why are you arguing semantics?

It's not that complicated and it's been explained about ten times in here already.

---

[Linkus]

People have been sanctioned and banned over single sentences said by the Admins. Considering we've been told to consider them as good as the rules by Admins, I did so.

If it really is a trivial matter then all that needs to be done is either make the Official factions who haven't bought a system since the rule came in pay the 500 million or let those who are applying for Official faction status get a refund on the 500 million if they do not want a system.

It's simple enough.

---

Facilitating the rise of robotics since 0 A.D.

[sovereign]

Dear god...

Right, the older factions have (at least for the most part) "spent" their 500 million deposit on a system. So they're irrelevant to your point.

The 500 mil deposit is a way to ensure that people don't post faction requests without thinking about them. Without the pleasantries, its a way for the admin team to keep people who don't care from taking the spotlight away from those who do. Whether or not they want the system is completely irrelevant- people could just say "I had a thought here's four sentences, I don't want a system tho so I'm not going to pay a dime" and post whatever they wanted. Don't believe me? If they haven't been mopped up yet, check through the old faction proposals. I remember trying to get the Volksfront official through that and it was quite difficult to acquire notice as a "serious" faction proposal just because of the various pieces of dead weight floating around next to us. The request for 500 million credits was put up as a response to that, and it was agreed that it would be unfair to demand the 500 million credits from factions that had put in requests before it became a requirement to apply. They had, after all, already applied.

I think a fairly reasonable counterargument has been drawn between the posts in this thread, and for your sake I ask you this. Why are you bringing this up? For what purpose do you wish for long-standing official factions to have to pay this fee? If it is in the interests of fairness, I believe that only those "suffering" have the right to complain (i.e., the factions who applied to become official after the 500 mil requirement was posted but have no desire to purchase a system), and should any of them raise question of fairness then I am sure it will be considered thoroughly. However, if they're fine with it, why is it a problem? There's something to be said about a lost cause when the people you claim to fight for don't want to be fought for. If, rather, you wish to use this as a means to remove an existing official faction that you don't think is worthy of the title, trust me, it isn't going to work. Any of them could quite easily come up with the money- it wouldn't be fun (nor by general consensus "fair") but I can guarantee none would fall because they were unable to pay that.

If you are looking to martyr yourself in the name of justice a la Akumabito, remember how well that worked out for him. Don't do it, as I recall you aren't a wicked person and don't deserve to bring that fate upon yourself. Rethink your purpose for bringing this up, and if you decide that this was a rather hasty and ill-advised thing to say, then I for one will fully accept your apology.

I thank you in advance for being reasonable.

Oh, and the rest of you, there's no need to start up the flamethrowers.

---

[tazuras]

If any thing about faction requirements and guidelines and application needs to change, I dont think it is the 500 million.

Also After reading through this whole thread I am somewhat confused what is about....

---

[Linkus]

@ Soveriegn
I think that's the nicest post I've ever seen in any of my threads O.o
But yes, thank you for that.

The controversy brought over Tenacity's issues brought this up in my head again and I figured, I might as well get a proper Admin answer or decision on it.
It seemed to me to be a clear example of favouritism or elitism in Discovery, something that many many people do complain about.

If an old faction, simply because of their time here or who they were friends with, didn't have to pay, why should a new faction?

I do agree that the 500 million is a good idea, nothing wrong with that and I have no wish to even attempt to bring down any Official faction, they've lasted this long for good reason (And bad too probably).

All in all, it quite simply seems unfair and unjust and a gap in the rules that might mean some official factions..weren't official.

I don't mind being flamed to smitherings though but thankfully it hasn't come to that, yet at least:P


But all in all, I took what was said by an Admin to be, what Admins have told us to do, as good as the rules. From that it worked out to be something quite unfair against newer groups and a gaping hole in the rules that meant Official factions just weren't Official.

---

Facilitating the rise of robotics since 0 A.D.

[tazuras]

@Linkus - they werent required to when they become official, they are grandfathered in.

Is 500 mill really worth all this? I mean it's not like it would be a problem for them to come up with it. And if it is they are clearly inactive and probably shouldnt maintain official status. But thats a whole other issue.

---

[Linkus]

Is 500 mill really worth all this? I mean it's not like it would be a problem for them to come up with it.

I anticipated something like this but I had hoped that an Admin might be able to make a decision either way on the matter.
Everything remains as is it seems, even though the hole in the rules is still there.

By rules I mean Del's post on the matter as an Admin in another thread. As we have been told to consider Admin's words, when said as an Admin, as good as the rules I did just that.

---

Facilitating the rise of robotics since 0 A.D.