Salvager is now a Gunboat

[Xoria]

Apparently some people with Salvagers thought they could pirate with it, get destroyed, and immediately return to the same system and continue pirating because it was a transport and thus exempt from the death rule.
Hoodlum's statement is imprecise at best.
Conducting piracy in any ship makes you subject to the pvp, death, fleeing, and re-engagement rules, the Salvager is no exception, and if it is being used in piracy instead of trading then it should be treated like it was a gunboat and follow all of the pvp rules.
If it is trading, then it is a transport.
So any changes to the ship as a result of rules changes are unnecessary, because the rules have not changed, they have just been clarified.

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[Zelot]

I would suggest the rule be changed across the board to, Any transport ship actively being used in pirating should be not be exempt from the death rules, not just the salvager. Piracy with cargo ships has been on the rise, and it's unfair to have the Junkers be the only ones effected by this rule. I have a raba, it's a transport, but I pirate in it, I should not be allowed to return to a system I was killed in, same with any ship being used for piracy.

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[Rudo]

Apparently some people with Salvagers thought they could pirate with it, get destroyed, and immediately return to the same system and continue pirating because it was a transport and thus exempt from the death rule.
Hoodlum's statement is imprecise at best.
Conducting piracy in any ship makes you subject to the pvp, death, fleeing, and re-engagement rules, the Salvager is no exception, and if it is being used in piracy instead of trading then it should be treated like it was a gunboat and follow all of the pvp rules.
If it is trading, then it is a transport.
So any changes to the ship as a result of rules changes are unnecessary, because the rules have not changed, they have just been clarified.

<strike>So... the Pirate Transport is a gunboat? The Raba is a gunboat? Both these transports are more effective at the role of piracy simply because they have cruise disruptors, which I'll remind you the Salvager was left without for the reason that it'd be ludicrously effective at piracy if it had one.</strike> I'm dumb and can't read.

I'm unclear as to how heavily the actions of a few players should impact the designation and role of a ship, and the roleplay of everyone else who owns one as a result. If rule loopholes are being exploited, doesn't the problem lie with the players performing the action in that case?

As Zelot said, the actions of the ship should determine how it should be treated. Not the ship itself.

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[bluntpencil2001]

I would suggest that no ship at all be excluded from those rules.

"I'd rather die than pay a pirate..."

I don't think so.

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[Xoria]

If it's pirating, you can treat the Salvager like a Pirate ID'd Starflier for all I care, it makes no practical difference. Nobody who is using a ship to attack others (and piracy is a form of attack) is exempt from the pvp rules. If a transport is trading, comes upon a pirate and attacks the pirate, and the transport gets killed, the transport cannot come back and attack the pirate again 5 minutes later.

Transports that are only attempting to trade can come back through the system, because that benefits piracy and keeps the economy going.

If you use any ship for pvp or piracy, then it has to follow all of the pvp rules. If you use a transport or freighter for trading and fire only in self-defense against pirates or terrorists, then you can keep trading and defending yourself. The moment any transport or freighter goes on offense to hunt and attack pirates, it loses its special exemption.

So like I said, there is really no change here.

---

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[Rudo]

So the change has been revised, then?

Thank you. And I apologize for the snap-judgement retorts. I'm bad for that, and will work on my speed reading accuracy as well.

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[worldstrider]

Thanks for the clarification, Xoria. Jinx made a great signature ship and a lot of us would have hated losing its role.

Can we clarify a bit further for the really technical rules benders out there? Using it to pirate at a specific time does not permanently change its status--just at that time. Correct?

So if I attack you "now", I am "now" subject to pvp rules. But in combat if I die, flee, dock, leave system, etc. I revert to a trader again after the four hours . Stated properly?

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[Primus Avatar]

So if I attack you "now", I am "now" subject to pvp rules. But in combat if I die, flee, dock, leave system, etc. I revert to a trader again after the four hours . Stated properly?

only if you die, flee, dock, leave system, etc. while conducting trade. yes

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wassup

[worldstrider]

only if you die, flee, dock, leave system, etc. while conducting trade. yes

Err--that's the opposite of what I meant. If I used a salvager to attack and get killed, I will remain bound by the four hour no return-no reengage rule with the player(s) I engaged. At the end of that four hours, I can then return to full trader status so long as I don't resume attacking again. I also assume during the four hours that other players not involved in the previous combat must treat me as a trader unless I attack them.

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[farmerman]

If it's pirating, you can treat the Salvager like a Pirate ID'd Starflier for all I care, it makes no practical difference. Nobody who is using a ship to attack others (and piracy is a form of attack) is exempt from the pvp rules. If a transport is trading, comes upon a pirate and attacks the pirate, and the transport gets killed, the transport cannot come back and attack the pirate again 5 minutes later.

Transports that are only attempting to trade can come back through the system, because that benefits piracy and keeps the economy going.

If you use any ship for pvp or piracy, then it has to follow all of the pvp rules. If you use a transport or freighter for trading and fire only in self-defense against pirates or terrorists, then you can keep trading and defending yourself. The moment any transport or freighter goes on offense to hunt and attack pirates, it loses its special exemption.

So like I said, there is really no change here.

While you're here on the matter, I was wondering about something. Is there a foreseeable future where ships will all fall under the same set of guidelines regardless of whether they're trading, pirating, or otherwise? Because it seems that would clear up any situation like this.

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