Order and guns

[Tommeh]

Actually, the Order has VERY wide choice of weapons.

Photons - Zoner "Fury".
Neutron - Order "Reaper"
Laser - Liberty "Vengeance", Order "Death Hand", civilian "Flashpoint"
Plasma - Liberty "Magma Hammer"
Pulse - civilian "Debilitator", 2 types.
No dmg type - Nomad Blaster and Cannon.
All of those are freely avaiable, exept nomad stuff, which is limited to 2 guns only.
We can also get with approval:
Photon - Junker "Barager", GMG "Sunblast"
Tachyon - IMG "Vampire"

And now, you need Nomad guns? C'mon.
Also, what's difference of the Wild and the Order, if they both use fully nom'd ships? The Order becomes dependant on Nomad technology and slowly becoming their toy...
From pvp perspective, the Order guns aren't really bad. They lasers (Death Hands) work nicely with Debs, while "Reapers" have significant damage, not Krakens, of course, but not Salamancas, instead.

What about BHG ships, they aren't that good. Take that Mako, at least. Does it have -50 reverse speed? Small size? I doubt.
Or fighters - take that Manta. The same model as Hammerhead (which is indeed heavy fighter, instead of very heavy fighter). And the Order has 2 VHFs, both of which are kinda...Too pwning, I think.

Only worth here are magmas and reapers, where reapers have one of bigger energy drain if you compare it with other guns similar stats, so if you put 4 of them with 2 debs they drain power very fast even on nephhy.

Magmas....well as soon as you mount them, everyone starts screaming oorp, even though they are sold on our base, it's easier to get something else then explaining to everyone.
All rest from your list...are high refire lasers, almost no one uses them, and we should then? I was actually testing last 2 days some of them.
It's very hard to deal some serious damage with them, and hard to learn them using properly to be good, if that is even possible. I haven't seen it.
So, zoners, civilians, GMG, Junkers, they all are more advanced in tech then Order, so we should use their guns instead of our own?
Why Order would not use actual Order guns?
Little rebalance with Order weapons to match speed and ranges would fix some issues.
This is not discussion about ships, Order VHF and HF also have the same model, so what, I missed your point, manta is very good VHF.

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[airage]

Nomad weapons or not, these are our only weapons that gives us any chance in PvP against nomads. How do you expect to survive nomad pvp if you have other weapons mounted,
specially now when we cant use decent shield busters like tiz. anymore?
I mean, nomad is twice agile than any order ship, and if you were to catch them and shot down with reapers and death hands,
energy would be empty in a matter of seconds.. .and you would survive? i dont think so... we should really have our own specialized lvl10 weapons,
but since we dont have them, this rule should be abandoned or at least stretch to 4 guns

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[tansytansey]

Nomad weapons or not, these are our only weapons that gives us any chance in PvP against nomads. How do you expect to survive nomad pvp if you have other weapons mounted,
specially now when we cant use decent shield busters like tiz. anymore?
I mean, nomad is twice agile than any order ship, and if you were to catch them and shot down with reapers and death hands,
energy would be empty in a matter of seconds.. .and you would survive? i dont think so... we should really have our own specialized lvl10 weapons,
but since we dont have them, this rule should be abandoned or at least stretch to 4 guns

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|Ashes and Draya's Epic Adventure|Ashes "Nighthawk" Yotaka|Nightfall|Eva Jones|
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[Durandal]

I think the main issue here is the weapon class - Neutron cannons and Laser cannons are well known for being sub par. What you could do is give the order some 5.88 laser guns like natters, give or take a bit of damage and energy usage and call it a day.

[Elven]

Only worth here are magmas and reapers, where reapers have one of bigger energy drain if you compare it with other guns similar stats, so if you put 4 of them with 2 debs they drain power very fast even on nephhy.

Magmas....well as soon as you mount them, everyone starts screaming oorp, even though they are sold on our base, it's easier to get something else then explaining to everyone.
All rest from your list...are high refire lasers, almost no one uses them, and we should then? I was actually testing last 2 days some of them.
It's very hard to deal some serious damage with them, and hard to learn them using properly to be good, if that is even possible. I haven't seen it.
So, zoners, civilians, GMG, Junkers, they all are more advanced in tech then Order, so we should use their guns instead of our own?
Why Order would not use actual Order guns?
Little rebalance with Order weapons to match speed and ranges would fix some issues.
This is not discussion about ships, Order VHF and HF also have the same model, so what, I missed your point, manta is very good VHF.

Concerning Reapers - talk to devs, then?
Magmas - point guys to rules, that's all.
So, if noone uses high refire lasers, we can't? Oh, yes. I forgot, we're collective, we have to use what others are using. Let's use Krakens, damn.
After using laser guns, our aim will be better.

Exactly, why wouldn't Order use their own weapons - Reapers and Death Hands? All I see right now - it's indies loaded with codies and nomad guns. Nice? Indeed.

Ah, yes. Order doesn't have HF.

Nomad weapons or not, these are our only weapons that gives us any chance in PvP against nomads. How do you expect to survive nomad pvp if you have other weapons mounted,
specially now when we cant use decent shield busters like tiz. anymore?
I mean, nomad is twice agile than any order ship, and if you were to catch them and shot down with reapers and death hands,
energy would be empty in a matter of seconds.. .and you would survive? i dont think so... we should really have our own specialized lvl10 weapons,
but since we dont have them, this rule should be abandoned or at least stretch to 4 guns

Try to use Magma Hammers, nukes, Razor. Other people somehow kill swarms of nomads, but we can't? Heh.
IRP, we gank nomads. Enuff said?

Concerning Tizzies, use Debs, they're allright. I use Death Hands + Debs, works so far.
Nomads are agile? Yes. Nomads have a lot of battleships, codenames? No. They have to be more RP-oriented, that's why their ships are 'overpowered'. [It's not flaming, it's notice regarding use of nomad ship.]

[airage]

@Elven
All what you have said now stands and it's true... but in principle its all about finding a good alternative? isn't it?
Unfortunately it will have to be enough since opinions are divided and admins..well.. have no interest in this topic in global.

The point is we have them, we have those weapons (whether they are nomads or not) but we can't use them in way we should.

I also agree with Tommeh, if they wish to put nomads weap. out of use for us at least we should get some nice balance on this issue.

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[Elven]

@Eugene
I don't want to see people abusing those weapons, that's all. And believe me, there will be people who'll do this.
It's enough for me Gebs camping NY jumpgate in Alaska.

So, sorry. Loud 'no' from me. I don't want abuse to happen.

[Akura]

I also agree with Tommeh, if they wish to put nomads weap. out of use for us at least we should get some nice balance on this issue.

It is balanced. Doing this would unbalance it.


Reapers are fine pansies, start using them.

I had a Karasu with 6 of em and I killed things that got in my way. So should you, it should be a struggle to fight the Nomads, make it so.

[... kur nubėgo?]

Probably too many BHG on the dev team, is my guess.

The Order's faction class 9 guns are crap. Our weapons are outclassed in every way by those used by our enemies (not just the keepers, but the BHG as well). If we could use more than two nomad cannons on our fighters, we might actually be able to stand a chance in an evenly matched battle, and we cant have that, can we?

There's no real reason for the restriction, it's just there for the sake of pissing people off.

Yeah... how sad.

Nyph with 14 500 hull strenght 76 bots/bats titan powercore 7 frontal gun power momentum and turn rate of a chimera is propably underpowered crap. And I head no-one took the right from you of using codies... Which is overkill from my point of view. But well who cares.

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Omega Pirates Guild

History of OPG | Antonio "Vilkas" Devivar

[Tommeh]

Concerning Reapers - talk to devs, then?
I am saying it here since we are discussing it now
Magmas - point guys to rules, that's all.
So, if noone uses high refire lasers, we can't? Oh, yes. I forgot, we're collective, we have to use what others are using. Let's use Krakens, damn.
Wait, so others have good choice not to use them, but our is limited, why would Order be different then and have to do it on harder way

After using laser guns, our aim will be better.
Not really, it's not about aim, it's about how long you need to be hitting to cause some damage, much longer then with slower refire guns, which makes you more open everything else.

Exactly, why wouldn't Order use their own weapons - Reapers and Death Hands? All I see right now - it's indies loaded with codies and nomad guns. Nice? Indeed.
It's better then using everything else but not Order ones, at least nomad guns are partly Order.
You wondered why is it like that? you think no one tried high refire guns before rejecting them.
If I need to spend 80 % of my ingame time pvping to learn how to use some laser guns ,then in hell with them.
Reapers aren't so bad if you don't count the energy drain. I am using them pretty long now.
Ah, yes. Order doesn't have HF.
Hammerhead and anubis are both VHF, where hammerhead has almost twice more hull, at least according to wiki,so I don't see your point again.
Try to use Magma Hammers, nukes, Razor. Other people somehow kill swarms of nomads, but we can't? Heh.
IRP, we gank nomads. Enuff said?

@Akura, Obviously different stats are not the the issue if you use all guns of same type. Energy drain, one of shorter ranges when comparing with other guns similar stats, are issues.

@Where did it run, are you kidding, nephhy has turning like chimera? :wacko: I don't think so.

My is green stuff. Ok, enough of this discussion for me, had it enough times before. It always ends same. I annoy myself without reason about nonsense, and it doesn't result with anything anyway.

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