Shieldbusters

[Othman]

Why don't we just give houses shield busters as well? None will be as good as the Coladas/Tizonas, but they could be made differently. Different speeds, to stay in alignment with that house's weaponry. Also, different damage types. Corsair Tizonas work best againts Graviton. So we make a house's good against one of the other types. You give them the shield buster that works best against their main enemy's NPC patrol's shields. Not home atm, so I can't get exact NPC factions and weapon/shield types to use as examples.

I DON'T think they need taken out completely though.

I had proposed developing a level 9 adv deb before but it was shot down quick. Instead of removing the current shield busters, adding a new line for the lawful cause sounds more reasonable to me. I would also like to see new chain shieldbusters with low damage output but better energy efficiency and speed.

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On the uncharted lagoons of anguish, I sail with a canoe made of my sins.

[McNeo]

I'd like to see green shield busters for Rheinland fireing at 5.88, Blue ones for liberty at 8.33, Yellow ones of Kusari at 4.00 and red/blue Bretonian ones (different animation from Liberty) at 4.00 or 3.03. And a Hvy Debilitator @ Class 9

Corsairs would still have the best one(s), I think, but the different refire could suit different styles of play.

Or perhaps a 5.88 for Rheinland and 8.33 for liberty, but then Inferno-type torp mounted shield busters for Bretonia and Kusari. The original Inferno would be the best all rounder from the torp mounted ones, and the Del Cids would be the best all rounder from the fast fireing ones.

I can see the Liberty Version being quite power conserving, and the Rheinland version being quite power consuming.
The Bretonian cannon should therefore be quite power consuming, whereas the Kusari cannon should be quite power conserving.

This would give each side a power conserving or power consuming gun to use. Also, pirates don't miss out, because most if not all are Corsair or Outcast aligned, already granting them access to either the inferno or the Del Cid line.

@Dab: I think all shield busters are bad against Graviton shields, because if you look in the infocards of the champion/adv. champion, it says good vs shield busting weapons. I have a sneaky feeling that it's hardcode, too...

[alance]

I say keep shield busters but make a couple more types so we can choose something that matches the velocity of our guns. Keep them civilian if you want to make it easier on Igiss.

I love the Debs and Adv.Debs as they are right now as level 7 and 8 guns. They are light on energy usage to help counter the big power draw from most factions' class 9s.

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"To gain a hundred victories in a hundred battles is not the highest excellence;
to subjugate the enemy's army without doing battle is the highest of excellence."

[Death Shadow]

I say, leave the del cids and debiliators like they are. The Inferno could be changed possibly as they are the only shieldbusters ones that are also mountable on cap ships (such as the cruiser inferno, bs inferno, and all of those).

[Van]

@McNeo: That is because all current Shield Busters are Pulse energy types. Also, an idea for a Pulse chain gun, A chain gun with equal Hull and shield damage, both weak, might be cool. Would do less hull damage than current chains, but more shield damage still.

I like the things Dab and McNeo said, about making More shield busters, and how each shield buster dos not need to be Pulse type, maybe.

I voted Yes. The whole point of a shield is to prevent damage to your hull. If one gun salvo, hell, if one shot (from several shield busters) takes out your shield then, why not just get rid of shields all together? Beef up the Hull armor, replace Bats with more Bot carrying capacity, and end it all.

But, that would not work, I do not think. Shields are to embedded into this game. Weapon weaknesses and strengths would become meaningless.

Instead of removing them then, perhaps weaken the ones we have (less damage, less energy consumption, screw with the stats in general).

Consider the possibility of making more shield busters for everyone. Why should an Elite Military Ace pilot only have access to "civilian" shield busting weaponry? (I was going to say civilian Pulse weaponry, but shield busters do not need to be Pulse) If you do make more shield busters, than I would still support the weakening of all shield busters, perhaps, just to give some power back into the importance of shields, especially if you make shield busters with energy types other than Pulse.

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<span style="color:#999999">&quot;There are many ways this could go wrong. Let's try them all.&quot;</span>

Ship Name <strike>- - - - - - - - - -</strike> Character/Role <strike>- - - - - - - - - -</strike> Affiliation
[ToP]-Business&amp;Pleasure - - - - Alexander Nagy / Alexander Nagy - - - - The Outer Project
[ToP]-Go.To.Hell.BigJoe - - - - - - Bootch / Functional Drunk - - - - - - The Outer Project
[ToP]-Gunnar.Gunnarsson - - - - Gunnar Gunnarsson / Gunner - - - - The Outer Project
5C|Raziel - - - - - - - - Zeke Brumer / Disabler - - - - - - - - Fifth Cell

[Virus]

I have to say, very nice discussion, here... From a moderator point of view.

Now, as for what I think after reading each and every post... I've been swayed slightly (though, I knew Blunt was going to argue that point before I even posted this thread). It seems I'll have to fly a Titan some day.

Now there are few suggestions I've noted and appreciated:

Remove the Colada. Seems fair enough. Unless the Titan is absolutely terrible (which if it is, it should be upped). They'll still have the Tizona.

Make the Adv. Debilitater more readily available for the houses. Sure, perhaps using the Interspace Commerce Bases as a selling point? Would be very nice if Rheinland didn't have to fly to Liberty to get civilian weaponry...

Different variations for each house. I doubt Igiss would do this, but it makes some sense. It would allow for the different militaries to have a shield buster that matched their weapon speed and refire. As Van said "Why should an Elite Military Ace pilot only have access to "civilian" shield busting weaponry?"

Remove top (Colada Del Cid) shield busters and allow the Inferno to be used more widely. Possibly, but only as a bomber weapon, in my opinion.

@McNeo: I noticed you quoting refire rates... More important than refire rates are the muzzle velocities. If they differ too much--like the Firekiss (550) and the Adv. Debilitater (750)--it really throws off aim.

Please note: Since it seems pretty unlikely I'm going to get my way, I'll be changing my stance to something more along the lines of... "How can we fix our problems without removing the shield busters?"

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Into the Maelstrom - A Measure of Salvation - Reaver Company Database

[bluntpencil2001]

Creative tactics are one way around it for House Militaries. Don't equip too many Debbies on your main fighters, but have support light fighters armed with 4 Debbies each. This is a scarily efficient strategy.

Note: On the Colada, it isn't the main problem. The main problem was the Tizona. That was the gun that was being whored by anyone and everyone that wasn't a Corsair. Now, I will admit potential bias here, since I do prefer to use a Colada, but my point still stands.:P

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[mjolnir]

Creative tactics are one way around it for House Militaries. Don't equip too many Debbies on your main fighters, but have support light fighters armed with 4 Debbies each. This is a scarily efficient strategy.

Note: On the Colada, it isn't the main problem. The main problem was the Tizona. That was the gun that was being whored by anyone and everyone that wasn't a Corsair. Now, I will admit potential bias here, since I do prefer to use a Colada, but my point still stands.:P

First.. yes it's a good tactic.. but Jan Richthofen is not always around:)

I don't think Colada is such a big problem either... but you don't see many bombers flying around with 4 Tizonas....
And it's not the Corsairs that need to fight a lot of gunboats...


anyway it was just that if something should be removed the only weapon that didn't fit and was added in Discovery was the Colada... actually for me the biggest reason was that it's a faction Lvl. 10 no other faction has that.

It would be nice if the advanced deb. was sold some other places yes... I'd even like to see it on Freeports - so that the unlawful side can buy them.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[RickJames]

What problem's are we trying to fix?

Who is unbalanced and how do we know this?

Instead of everyone having an opinion of what is unbalanced I recommend getting some real data.

Just knowing damage is not really enough. The speed diff of all weapons in a load out, the manuverability of a ship, number of weapons, how they are mounted, and most important, the skill of the pilot.

This would mean putting some volunteers in the exact same fighters with the exact same weapon load out, guns only, no bats/bots. After a couple fights we can make certain both players are of the same skill level.

Once we are certain that both players are of the same skill we can outfit them with faction ships with the weapons of choice for the factions. Seems people think Corsairs and Outcasts are not quite balanced and maybe lawful and unlawful are out of balance also.

I'd rather see some concrete data from well done experiments than just everyones opinion. Specially when making such a mod wise change.

Least thats just my opinion.:)

[bluntpencil2001]

Such experiments still have flaws, RickJames.

For you see, in a Titan, I can give anyone a run for their money, solo, in any fighter.

However, due to the capabilities of the Titan, it isn't as well suited for larger, team engagements, and rightly so, it is a pirate ship, not a military ship. It is easily swarmed by multiple pilots in quicker ships, even if their skill level is lower than the Titan pilot's. I like this setup.

You can't balance a ship on based on a solo-combat basis, since this is a multiplayer game.

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