getting back on course or keeping it...

[SMI-Great.Fox]

You know with the thought of so many zoner groups nowadays..Some with their own guard systems (TAZ\Omicroners) Their is still the thorn in my side over how many people think badly of zoners because of our inability to keep track of people using Zoner tech in ways it was not meant for. Such as seeing Corsair battleships shooting down house vessels. Not exactly a way to keep one's thoughts on the good nature of most zoners.

I will admit there were times the former ZA was a good thing, and times it wasnt. THis is a prime example on the good things cause back then we could regulate weaponry problems.

---

-"If we do not learn at least one thing a day....Our minds turn to stupor"- Kyle Sparrgrove -2005

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab53/Vandread010/BAF_1_FltAdm_zps4239822d.jpg
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab53/...e32039.jpg
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab53/...89ade0.jpg
While the signature did not break any rules before, the lack of third party hosting caused your signature to take up over half of the page. Until the problem is fixed, I'll have to revert those images to links. ~Inferno

Ships Log of the Maverick IV Logs of the Maverick.V  The.Maverick.IV & Maverick.V Feedback Lot How it all began...

[lousal]

I still long feel certain irregularities need to fixed. The growth of Zoners, when Disco buffed them up, does not make any sense for the time span of their existance and especially where they were 20yrs ago to where they are now. There is a serious matter with dates that need to be addressed concerning the lore, that or...what the majority will call; a nerf. I'd suggest a redo of the historic dates for the Zoners since this current setup has been established long enough to be entrenched. The point is, it absolutely immpossible for Zoners to have had that much sex and births in less then one generation's worth of time while at that same time interval, simultaneously have these kids operate a sudden massive expansion in resources, tech application, complex shipbuilding up to colony ships...etc....all done by a massive population that was just born and couldn't have reached adolescence yet. Even when doing the math for the birth rate of humans the spike in 20 yrs would not scratch at the numbers presented now. It took how long for humans to reach 6.3 billion on Earth?

Good point, but I really doubt that you have read http://discoverygc.com/wiki/index.php/Zoners.

Why is it important to read it? Reasons:
- It was approved by the TAZ in person of Malaclypse, and in addition by the OSI founder. It is originating from ZTC ideas, written up by me, and thankfully elaborated and corrected by others.
- It was part of the ZTC's official faction creation request, thus being approved somehow, but I'm not sure today if anything of this procedure bears any value. Well, just not sure!
- It is explaining why the Zoners have Jinkusus and their own not so powerless technology


There's still the rumour haunting some channels that the Zoners are only a young movement, which is certainly approving your point of view, but what is easier to be amended, taking away all of Jinx' models, nerfing the NPC faction to be less attractive (mind that it is NOT a npc faction suited for pvp or powertrading, so what's about a concrete nerf? just remove them completely?), or to change a history that wasn't official anyway?

But yeah, everybody but those who're working mostly on it have a better clue of what Zoners are. Not even vanilla indicators would ever convince them.

Not addressed to you, Prowler, but in most cases it's actually just ignorance.

[HuggieSunrise]

This mod has created a rich a deep history as far as this faction is concerned. Which is sort of the point. this mod/community needs this as a factor of identity.

I think tampering with it because of the observations of a few.. with a perspective neglecting the fact this history took time to occur and develop is sort of.. well a disservice to what more it can become.

I dont feel its a good idea to go forward with bias on the past, this isnt a miniseries and for all intents and purposes the lore and the idea of zoners over time has held true.


Factions are another matter entirely separate from zoners. Factions came out of the mythos the zoner faction provide are thier own origins and represent THEMSELVES and not zoners as an entirety. This is not a bloated idea to say zoner factions are too many because the perspectives are incorrect.. nor is it saying that zoner technology is wildly out of control since the perspective that anarchists and pioneers have always existed in mans history and in a technological age these things are possible.

Man colonizes/ man outgrows the conditions and keeping of his brother in many times of our own history and this idea holds true for the ID. zoners want to be free living in the confines of space and these are perhaps more embellished sources of rp then is commonly considered when making the character.. but its there none the less.

Leave the merits of people misrepresenting or opinions dependent upon people and factions.. To THOSE people and factions. cause in the end no amount of mechanics or taking away cap ships and vessels will fix anything related to how Zoners are perceived.

In the end? I dont see any proof at all factions messed up anything about independent zoners. Id like to see further proof of claim on this because it certainly hasn't hindered me over the years. perhaps this is indeed the.. omitted persons.. problem?

[fencore]

I do think Soban & Co. covered my stance on the Zoners. We are what we choose to be. Being a Zoner isn't a nationality, it's a way of life. Naturally, with so many people who want to venture out of House space from so many varied backgrounds, there's likely to be some difference of opinion and philosophy.

I think having multiple Zoner factions covers this. Each of us have a different approach and no single approach is any more right than the others.

I do, however, believe that we need to reign in on the technology available to us. I'm not opposed to seeing Jinkusus or Aquilons in the game, but I do think they need to be turned into ships requiring special permission to use. Those ships were intended to be colony ships to spread and aid Zoner research. While there are a good number of people roleplaying mobile Freeports and doing good things with their Zoner Battleships, we have just as many beating the war drums and advancing with them on other groups. That's not what a Zoner would do. Cam is probably the only person who I feel comfortable with roleplaying a warship Jinkusu, as he's done significant work in and around Delta to support it.

I'm not proposing to defang the Zoners. We'll still hold our own when necessary. But we shouldn't be building something of military might.

Regarding the roleplay itself, I'm fairly content with what we have. We've got three organized groups to push things along and we check and balance each other, and there's more than enough room for indies to do as they please in between. I can't speak for the other two, but OSI came pretty close to stepping in on some of the more recent Freeport drama, but our indies have been able to handle it, which makes life a bit more fun for us.

And, of coruse, bias bias bias bias bias bias bias.

Edit: What I think I was trying to say in the paragraph about reducing Zoner tech is "Give me a Whale and I'll be a happy man." I've never been much for shooting things anyhow. 'Cept rocks. Hon hon hon.

[mjolnir]

Zoners as a whole not screwed up anything, but devs who made them so huge, powerful and stuff. Alot of players depends on need to land on zoner bases too much which makes little sence as well as amount of zoner bases around.

How did devs make zoner huge and powerfull?

If you read most zoner-related infocards they don't sound or look all that powerfull or huge.

It's the players that made those 60 zoner juggernauts when there should be max 4 as well as all the other capships.

---

Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Curios]

How did devs make zoner huge and powerfull?

If you read most zoner-related infocards they don't sound or look all that powerfull or huge.

It's the players that made those 60 zoner juggernauts when there should be max 4 as well as all the other capships.

Ability was given, so that's dev's fault in that.
Give Xenos a BS and we'll end up with lots of them even if they don't suposed to have any.

Zoners are not powerful and mighty in RP, but oorly they are all over the place, have alot of bases and have biggest caps around. So that makes them look retarded compared to Vanilla zoners who flew dromoderys around.

---

[Jinx]

mjolnir - if the capital ships are the problem ( like the root of all the zoner problems ) - how comes that its the 3rd proposition to delete / restrict zoner caps has been rejected on the dev board.

2 of them were asked for by zoner factions - even now, one is running....


@curious:

we don t want vanilla - that should be clear.

- we do not want scattered nomad remains, cut form the collective - puny and pathetic
- we do not want corsairs to fly only ther lightning fast legionaire and their tank-like titan
- we do not want liberty with its pea shooters


zoners in fighters and dromedaries is rediculous - i think we don t need to argue about that one - a full npc faction rollback is not what its about


what its about is how the three factions may or may not have ruined the entire faction for some key members of the community - ( some of them playing zoners, others rather their enemies )


edit:

let me add - if the capital ships really ARE the problem as you say mjolnir....

... i would second a decision to remove all zoner caps including the gunboat from sale locations at ANY time. ( leave them ingame though ) so that they may be given by admins... and/or are left to players who currently own them.

---

Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[jammi]

You factions didn't ruin the Zoners - Discovery did a good job of that in its early builds when it was still a ship-pack run by rule of cool. You guys (developers and factions) are doing a good job with a bad set of tools, because retconning is generally considered bad.

2: Tried to turn the zoners into freelancers - several different factions, when they are really ONE faction - shoot one zoner npc, ALL turn hostile to you. A pertinent quote I heard from a zoner official faction member is
"The main thing to remember about Zoners is there arnt any" - When saying how they were all different. You want to play that way, play as a freelancer.

3: Put all the zoner factions under one main zoner overfaction.

Do you have any idea what Zoners actually are? O_o

Prowler as I said Zoner come from everywhere :
Zoner are people who decided to live outside colonial control. And by that way they are many. Because each time a governement do something they will be people against and who will leave the system. And some of them become Zoner.

That doesn't explain a population boom from 3,500 or so, to over 500 million in 19 years. Nothing can do that, short of forced relocation from House planets.

---

News article library, feedback and content requests.

[mjolnir]

Question is how separated should be what's happening on discovery 24/7 official server and what's happening in discovery mod.

Now there are lots of zoner caps (as many as LN caps, more than BAF and KNF combined, think even more than RM and BAF combined).
1. Does that mean that zoners are as strong as LN?
Maybe not....
2. That zoners are as weak as written on the infocards?
Maybe not...

now what?

If we follow the first line of thinking then Mollies and Unioners don't exist, GRN has less ships than even Bretonia etc etc.




@Jinx, think the issue lately was that the proposal came from one zoner faction and the other ones didn't agree with it

---

Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[ProwlerPC]

Ok, so I read your arguments, I read your wiki. I read it before. As I said the current Zoner standard is set and is entrenched. Which is fine. Notice my suggestion in my post? Going in-game with the devs and fixing the dates and such to conform to what a minority has posted on the forums and the wiki. What I'm suggesting is to finnish what wasn't finnished before when they first slapped in the ship models, the planets, the population. They shoulda rolled back some in-game lore dates and peppered in a rumour or two that hints towards the growth the Zoners achieved. As you mentioned the present Zoner players have an accord and you pointed that out with the wiki reference and the approvals that come with it. This wasn't the case back when they slapped those candy into the mod back then. So today, unlike yesterday, we have an opportunity to fix some unfinished work with the infocards in-game concerning Zoner lore. Catching on to my meaning yet, Lou? It's in your favour.

---