Are we killing Discovery?

[Unseelie]

I've my own personal chafing.
I've recently fallen in with the faction crowd, though I have something like 8 independent characters. I'm on both sides of the fence, and have been on the indie side much longer...though I fly fighters, and I am against the proliferation of capships as a reaction against my size. I'm wary of any new person, but someone in a cap...well, they could hurt me, spoil my fun. I don't trust easily, and there is the crux: I don't trust capships.

This new hostility....well. I've long assumed that discovery had a specific amount of people that it could assimilate, and that number depends on the state of the community...the mechanism is churning, yes...but old members are leaving..new ones are coming in, but...I wonder, if there are enough.
Enough coming in to maintain disco, to churn out new members...
There's a balance, and it seems to be breaking. I wish I knew how to fix it. I've tried to be ingame more.

When the QCO was formed (QCP came first, then the QCO, then they were merged, then again merged into the QCRF with the SF) the idea was to create a faction with a strong rp community that would help integrate new people...specifically because I had no faith in the LSF or the SA. I had (and occasionaly still imagine) this grand dream, where people joining into the server for the first time would get approached by two or three in rp recruiters...much like angels and devils on someone's shoulders, a SCRA guy demanding he kill the LPI, an Interspace rep offering the rewards of greed...a Xeno finally getting upset, and trying to kill a foreigner....but I cant work in rheinland, or kusari, bretonia or malta...There is something to be said about Liberty, and the fact that it is the first thing people see..

Perhaps we can make the balance better by making liberty better...And now I'm ashamed to say I've avoided liberty for months.

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[Jinx]

what a faction has to keep in mind is - that restricting others in their freedom .... and it is restricting them in their freedom to RP something ( - when i cannot roleplay a captain of a warship that is NOT part of that playerfaction, but well part of the npc faction ) works both ways.

so by saying "you did not show us the responsibility to fly that ship" - it also says to those that were allowed "you did show us the responsibility and you have our blessing". - by saying that , they *sort of* embrace that player, independent or not, into their responsibility. - since THEY have had the power to access or deny ( which is still questionable from my pov ) - they also have the responsibility over him.

so - when a faction allows an independent to fly a specific ship, it is their responsibility when this person does not show the same responsibility ( no matter what ship class - but of course, a faction could / would also limit fighters [ or can we fly wrath fighters and RP as independent militaries? - with the underlaying logic behind the reasons of limiting warships - we cannot ] )

the question is now - do the factions want to take that responsibility? - and i wouldn t like ot hear a "now that we allowed them the ship, it is not our responsibility anymore" - cause it is. - the reason to allow or disallow ships / freedom to the players is to regulate so called "good" from "bad" roleplay. - now i wonder if a faction is up to take the blame if someone that was allowed to fly a certain ship acts well outside the parameters.

however much we discuss these things. - the so called "in roleplay punishment" is too much "not so much in role". - if we wrote the limitation down in the rules, it would be fine. - but if we say that all the RP server is about ( in terms of freedom and limitations ) is the rules, - it is truely harrassment ( even if its considered to be in RP ) to kos the own factions members ( and the own faction are the guys with the very same ID you have - wether you like it or not ) --- harrassement is saying "we will kill you over and over untill you change your ship or leave the server" - which has been uttered by quite some respectable playerfactions. ( not by independents for that matter )


to the point of that thread....

no, it will not kill disco, cause like all other topics discussed on the forum, - it has little impact on the real ingame experience. most of it is simply some venting and ranting, but doesn t find its way to what really matters and happens on the server.

if we consider the forum to be an equally great part of disco though - it can kill forum activity much. even if an independent plays more than the char that has been threatened - he will feel hurt in a most personal way to have his freedom restricted - and there ll be problems communicating with that person and the ones restricting him. - even if the restriction "should" only extend to one single character and should be "inChar/inRole", it will most certainly affect the other chars, too.

for that matter, its sometimes a blessing that a lot of people do not visit the forum, as they sometimes really turned out to be quite nasty - not in terms of topics. - but in terms of how the different opinions were shared. - the tone of some replies were nasty, arrogant and imo, worse than some little swearing ingame ( which is punished with a 14 days+ ban )

thankfully, i haven t experienced the same level of personal insults ingame that happened in some threads here. - but people must be aware that the vast majority of players giving disco "life" and adding to the dynamic and vivid feeling you have when you fly through the systems are independents. - scaring them off too much can drain the server if that level of hostilities is achieved ingame that we sometimes achieved here.

and i rather have a server with 180 people and half of them in capital warships than a server with 40 people and most systems populated by NPCs only.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Unseelie]

I don't like it, but I agree. As you can probably guess, I'm not really the military type.

I gotta ask, have some other servers shut down recently or something? It seems like these issues have been flaring up a lot more - some indies being jackasses, factions reacting with (in some cases excessive) hostility, and the anger escalating from there - and I can't figure out what would cause such an influx (which seems to be mostly newbies) short of another server closing...

I've read somewhere that there are torrents of FL bundled with discovery installed...and, yes. Servers have collapsed, and a large freelancer community, that wasn't the niche community that built disco, has moved into this space...

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[chovynz]

Jinx Makes good points.

Just focusing in on the factions again, What if the Faction players have their ranks in their names?

For example, I see many LNS_Whatever, and most of those are Capships.
But if we had LNS_2LT_Whatever, would this be a good way of letting
people know where they fit? I would think that it's easier to take "orders"
from a person that you know is higher in rank? (without having to visit the forums.)

Again this relies on both parties "playing fairly by the rules of the game." One
problem that I see is that many people dont want more rules. Disco has enough
as it is. And when someone comes from a different culture (PVP server, first time
player) it takes time to integrate them into any community. Time that many people
are not willing to give/take because of:

1) They have already spent lots of time in the past,
2) They lack the maturity to be patient, or to give a "newb" time and grace to get their RP together,
3) Just plain are looking to PVP.

Is there a way for factions to allow "Independent" agents a bit more
freedom? For example perhaps the LSF can allow ANY LSF agent into
Alaska, rather than having to ask the LSF HC permission? Then everyone
will know that LSF is "allowed" - read, supposed to be able to go - into
Z21/Alaska, Whilst the Navy or any trader is not. This will allow independents
to operate within the "rules" of what LSF is intended, without the factions
being seen as "overbearing."

Factions - give respect to Independents as if they were part of the faction.
Independents - Please give Factions the respect of having had months and months of background RP (sometimes years).

Perhaps there is a way for Factions and Independents to that faction
to operate together within the spirit of teamwork, rather than firing
at each other because they are "not authorized"?

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Seek fun and you shall find it. Seek stuff to Q_Q about and you'll find that, too. I choose to have fun.

[Praetyre]

In SP, the LSF didn't grant Zone 21 access to Juni, a Commander. Why would they grant it to unmarked agents?

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[Baby Bonnie Hood]

SA members, along with a large number of LNS liberty independent caps, and quite often =LSF= members, seem to sit around manhattan orbit all day long. They get annoyed when they cant stop a smuggler within the distance from the trade lane to the manhattan docking ring, but they never seem to do anything about it.

Must you do this? I personally do not see this at all.

But then again, I'm not on the server 24/7 either. Maybe I just somehow keep missing this supposed laziness...

[Tenacity]

Must you do this? I personally do not see this at all.

But then again, I'm not on the server 24/7 either. Maybe I just somehow keep missing this supposed laziness...

My junker smuggles contraband very frequently in and out of liberty.

I encounter absolutely no resistance other than in the immediate viscinity of manhattan, and very rarely at west point. I've only seen liberty lawfuls outside of new york a handful of times.

It could be a time zone thing, but myself (and others, i'm sure) tend to see nothing more out of liberty's lawfuls than planet camping.

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[sn!p3r]

Also, if that did happen.. the whole us letting any LSF agent into alaska w/o permission, would result in increased usage of the LSF ID, and not for good purposes. I would think...

You would be seeing more LSF id'd players, just to use the "i am a agent, therefore i have access to alaska". I hate to compare RL to FL, but.. whoever controls area 51, does not let everyone who is in the Air force, or any branch of the military to just waltz in and start dancing around the base.

Personally, i think the whole indie vs faction thing is ridiculous, though both sides have strong points which makes it a bit less ridiculous. If you can play the role of your character, wether your in a faction or not, Your good in my books. Would you rather see 10 oorp indie battleships, who refuse to explain how they got their ship excluding the "i bought it excuse" or would you rather have 10 people who give out their heart and soul for their battleship, to be treated as equal as a faction member.

Players with Roleplay, players who play their role Faction or not, should be treated equally, not the whole "i am teh offical faction, i have more authority over you!" or the "Your in a faction, im not.. therefore i have more freedomz than you and don't have to listen to you"

IF there is a little faction vs indie war going on, i am leaning more towards the indie side , the indies who actually spend their time roleplaying their character. Independants should be treated as if they were part of the faction, not as outcasts(not the faction) of the house/faction they are representing.

and, i wouldn't say discovery is close to dying, but its getting everyone a bit stressed imo.

[n00bl3t]

Independants should be treated as if they were part of the faction, not as outcasts(not the faction) of the house/faction they are representing.

and, i wouldn't say discovery is close to dying, but its getting everyone a bit stressed imo.

I'd like to be treated as an Outcast, instead of...

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Laowai]

I'd like to be treated as an Outcast, instead of...

This is something i think, thought i don't think factions will agree to ever do it for a multitude of reasons. But this underlines a point i raised in my earlier post (see page 3 of the thread)..

But this is where a key issue between factions and indies lie... the ID and who has it.
See, if you have a Corsair ID and tag, by server rules, if you take them black and white - you are corsair, tried and true 100% thats it. Strictly speaking, were another corsair to fire on you, then technically, you're committing an OORP offence. What counterbalances this is a whole lot of faction grandstanding over rights of control and then a single solitary post in a thread by Korrd, which no new indy player would ever find, that seems to lend his (and only his) support to the idea that its ok for factions to do this to indys (in regaurds to cap ships particularly)

Server rules and faction rules..... a codified "legal" system, and a "vague kinda you had to be there to know" legal system....

confusion much? especially for a newb.

In my opinion, once you wear an ID, you are part of that ID, whether you're in a faction or not. I personally disagree with LSF factions restricting access to Alaska to other LSF, they can justify it how they like (and they have) but an indy with an LSF badge is LSF as i see, it pure and simple.
Same wit outcasts shooting at other outcasts for non registry - i have always completly disagreed with the RM factions policies on their ship control on the same grounds, and i have always been vocal among the corsairs on this issue. As someone said, this is freelancer, not factionlancer.
But - before anyone jumps on me here, faction rules... if they are agreed upon by a majority of players, have a valuable part in the game and i think they are valid in many cases. The Corsair factions have their rules about smuggling passengers and bringing food, and as an indie corsair i always uphold them - Why? because its policy, it makes no sense for me to rock the boat and try to go against it when the majority or Corsair (all factions and most indies) agree with it.


Again - many of these ambiguous rule and authority threads really need admin input... see my previous post.

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