Honestly, I think the only thing here that is positive is an attempt to force people to roleplay....and I do believe that people need to roleplay in every character to have any right to be on the server.
What I dislike, and this seems backwards, is the attempt to change the rules by changing the game...I rather like the environment the way it is, and as jinx said, there's not too much there. the Traderoutes need some balance, yes. There are packs of capwhores roving about, so I've been told. Haven't seen any for ages, but maybe thats because I expect liberty to be horrible, and avoid it. I don't think much of this would help the server in general, but giving guard pilots train cds would make sense...but my train gets stopped 3 times out of 7 anyway, so I'm not sure of the point.
All in all, you've had a bad time with packs roving around, doing things inside the rules but outside of a sense of fairplay, with little or no RP, and I'm sorry about that, but I don't think many things need a nerf, just a few of the unbalanced ships.
Thing is... I semi agree with your proposals.. and there isn't any way to reduce number of capital ships in a game.. putting them in Guard systems in okay IMO, but then again people just take a bribe ... so they can enter Guard system, then they re-do their repp.. so that isn't good way...
I don't know if that can be done but i would put lvl requirement for BBs to 90 (probably isn't possible due to vanilla FL and maximum level of 38) ... further more.. if you remove NB-S13 Jh.. people will just go to Frankfurt and then use S13 JH there and continue through Chugoku
About nerfing.. Yes.. I am pure fighter pilot and I fly couple bombers too, but I have to be objective here no matter how much i dislike Capitalship spamming and say that Battleships needs upgrade .. amour IMO and number of guns on ship... so they become usable in fleet battles.
It is unbelievable that 2 bombers can bring down one or two BBs at once... BBs should be strongholds and Fortresses in any battle .... On the other hand as much as repressive this sounds BBs should be flown ONLY by Official factions (I am talking about Battleships only) Why? Because every leader of official faction has experience in RP and they will know when and how to use BBs properly... and he/she can give keys of that BBs to member within the faction who have ability to fly it
Now as much as people whine and bash RM for doing Capship control in Rheinland i am thinking they are doing a good job (again I am talking again ONLY about RH BB, but also they should probably license couple independent players who are experience and known for goor RP and ability to fly BBs properly, however I disagree with limiting RH cruisers for use)
It is sad that all new players think that flying big ship makes them invincible and that is why we have so many independents flying around.. but then again in equally matched fight , capitals will loose every time when they enter battle against fighter/bomber squadron... (see that movie Keepers vs. all others in Delta.. like month ago) So basically for BCs and below there isn't solution that will result in decrease of numbers of capitals.. for BBs there is a hope but server rules have to be changed and that would require consensus within community..
Hey, another thread that manages to include a bashing of Bounty Hunters. Yes! Thought I'd have a day where it mightn't happen. If people are really playing OORP to an extent that annoys you, then don't play with them.
Don't put missile turrets on that gunship. Oh wait, now no one wants to see BHG gunship spammed, so okay we'll all fly bombers. But bombers are too powerful, so its back in the barracuda for you m'boy. But then every nitwit in an unlawful craft will KoS you because,as one twerp put it, "you're our enemy, bud." Bounties? Contracts? Who cares...
Everyone wants to see BH capships bugger off to the Lonelicrons. fair enough. Then people start complaining because they move into a Order Guard system. Well, i wouldnt do it (i chased an order vessel in Minor and pulled back when within 5 k of Toledo but that's how Id do it) but I would say that maybe you could
a. mobilise the Bs and show these guys the door, which happened quickly enough when OORP Order capships started misbehaving or
b. pretend they're not there if they dont RP
c. suggest a massive overhaul of the server and rules
Oh, we're looking at c.
Quote:Bounty Hunter official factions act somewhat ignorant.
That's a pretty unfair accusation, considering there is ONE official BH faction. One. If you are gonna slate people then, please be informed first. Do you mean the unofficial BH factions? Who would they be? Tar me with that accusation? What do you want? An official faction that will police the sale of capships? Is that what you want? Join up and let's get out the bombers.
PvP is an important component of the game, so complaining about PvP whoring is a moot point at best. There WILL be fights. You WILL lose sometimes. But sometimes you will win, and everyone enjoys that.
If you're sick of BH BC's then maybe we could increase the price. Then people will buy the next most attractive ship, in terms of price and power. It's moving the problem on.
I spent a lot of time yesterday explaining to a new recruit that filling the S/D with gunships was not the direction that I want the faction to go, because how we are perceived by others in the community is important to us. Then I read more of this: a steady stream of poorly informed complaints about the i.d. and I think, well, thanks for nothing.
Things aren't that bad in game. In fact I really enjoy things as they are, mostly. There are occasional pains, but that's how things go. Nothing is ever perfect.
here is what i think should be taken into account when the idea about faction(leaders) controlling warships should be like.
when someone claims the power to tell other people if their roleplay is good or bad - if they are responsible enough or not. - he also takes the responsibility for those people - allmost as if they were of his own faction. - every coin has 2 sides. - so by telling someone that he actually IS responsible enough and his roleplay is good enough - i also vouch for this person - and this persons actions.
cause what is the approval for then. - of course, the major blame takes the pilot himself - but still... if for example the zoners installed a warship approval - and denied someone a warship, it would mean "no, we don t think you show the required responsibility or your roleplay does not convince us in terms of how we think zoners should behave" - whereas approving him would mean "you are acting like we think a zonercaptain should act and you do show an appropriate amount of responsibility" - by approving that captain, we give him some sort of a pass for his roleplay.
now - when it turns out that the captain we approved is one of those guys that likes to shoot down BHG pilots and even open fire on BHG players without provokation or even a word - it would be the captain to blame.... but also the faction that approved that person.
so a faction must always ask itself - "do i really want to vouch for these pilots?" if not - why do i claim to take the power to restrict the ships then. - controlling something sets a certain standard - usually it is meant to make things "better" - unless the players in control have lower motives. - if things do not get better though - then the approach might be given up.
so, personally - i don t mind much if a playerfaction controls ships ... IF they are ( and i said that half a dozen times before ) make their whole decission process transparent, if they are up to take the responsibility - at least to a certain extend AND if they are willing to reflect their situation regularly to see if their actions really improve things - so they should make regular reports about the situation of the faction and - cause they affect the whole NPC faction - effectivly turning the NPC faction into a playerfaction ( as seen in the [RM] - which is not an NPC faction ID anymore, but a playerfaction ID now ( not officially, but its sort of argued to be one, "as there is none such thing as a RM that is not part of the [RM] ) - reports about the whole NPC faction and the ZoI.
as an example:
if a factionleader takes up all these points - he ll have to :
- write a detailed report to any player that was denied - listing the points that made the decission not to approve him - that can be made in a PM - and there should always be the option to reconsider that pilot when he improved.
- accept the responsibility for pilots that are not in their faction but have been approved by the faction. the faction has taken a lot of freedom of choice from the player - so the faction has responsibilities.
- write up regular reports about their whole faction ( player and npc ) about what changed to the better or worse - and they should try to be objective there.
if all that is done - i don t have a problem with factionleaders taking control - as it ll ensure a responsible leadership.
if these points are not done - maybe another leader is willing to follow them.... .
edit: checked the serverlist - 63 players online, no BB, no BC, 3 cruisers, 5 gunboats - rest are fighters / traders
edit 2: let me add that - i fully support what epyon did / does with the outcasts ( except the thing with extending his power well over his guard system ) - and the whole thing would have been flawless and smooth if it had not been blown up to a major drama. - the approach was very liberal and "friendly" towards non factioned members.
Quote:Battleship licenses need to be removed from all vendors and made available by admin approval only, like terrorist and specialty ID's (nomads,wild,etc). Battleships should only be given to player faction leaders, or experienced players who have proven their worth here - like Gafwmn, Isabelle Kaitlyn, and Au'rora (eternal). These players have shown that they have extremely good RP ability, and follow the rules and their zone of influence. The same cannot be said for 90% of the people out there using capships right now.
Independent players wishing to purchase battleships should be required to appeal to their player faction leader if one is available (for example, anyone wanting an outcast battleship/dreadnaught needs to talk to epyon). If there is no player faction for the battleship you want, you should be required to appeal directly to the admins by forum here, and only given the license after player feedback has been given supporting your reasons for using the ship.
Feedback: On principle I object to playerfaction approval for any ship purchase. Many are all too human, their ability to judge who is worthy and who is not, is influenced by what they consider to be proper roleplaying behavior. The Admins have enough on their plates to take part in yet another time-consuming process.
Quote:battlecruisers are currently the most exploited capship in the mod. People can get them for fairly cheap, without having to buy a battleship license, and a lot of RP enforced rules dont restrict battlecruisers (like the battleship ban in liberty). Personally I hate these things, they're not balanced at all compared to the other ship classes, and have the best of both worlds (cruisers and battleships).
I dont care if battlecruisers keep the 'battlecruiser' designation - but they need to be nerfed. Reduce their manuverability to battleship levels. I would prefer them having all class 10 turret hardpoints removed, but that would unfortunately force a player wipe so it cant be done.
If possible, reducing battlecruisers to a standard cruiser power core would work well, making those class 10 turrets really drain your energy.
Feedback: To be honest, I don't understand why there is a battlecruiser class at all. Having at one time piloted a BC, I can tell you that they don't need to be nerfed. They are huge targets and they turn like a maimed tree sloth. All it takes is to have a newcomer's BC get pummeled by a couple of bombers. Or even a single lunchbox. Then they will either leave or re-think their rp.
Quote:All ships of cruiser level or higher should be available for purchase only in faction guard systems. This requires players to have a little better rep with the faction that sells these ships - and also requires players to ask permission to enter the system and use the ship from the player faction that owns that guard system (i.e. they'd be 'forced' to register the ship, any players who enter the system and purchase the ship without asking could be considered kill on sight for stealing an advanced and expensive vessel).
Right now it is simply too easy for any new player to the server to trade for a week and get a capship without knowing a thing about the rules, RP, or their faction restrictions. You see it every single day on the server and very little is done about it, as no server rules directly restrict that behavior.
Feedback: This makes sense.
Quote:Someone is bound to come up with "but bombers are more powerful than caps!"
They'd be right, bombers -are- more powerful. Right now bombers are the single most overpowered ship type in the mod, with more firepower capability through the supernova than any other ship. Most bombers also have enough agility and firepower to take on fighter class ships, making them the best all-around pvp vessels. They're also not all that expensive.
The easiest solution, as stated by jinx I believe, is to reduce or remove the strafe speed on bomber craft. If they cant strafe, it's much harder for them to avoid fire from enemy fighters. Strafing isnt as crucial for a bomber when fighting capships - all you have to do is get in close and engine kill to fly circles around the battleship, and it wont be able to target you in turret view.
Feedback: Dunno about this one. Yes, the bombers pack a wicked punch, but they are bombers. Possible exceptions would be the Nomad bomber and BD Katamaran. Those two have the agility of VHFs. I would leave bombers on the whole pretty much the way they are currently.
Quote:[quote]one of the main reasons players can get such quick access to capships and other expensive items here is the existence of trade routes which, quite frankly, shouldnt exist. There are two routes in particular I'm concerned with:
1. The Cardamine smugglers in order space. The route for these guys is texas -> new york -> alaska -> omicron minor -> omicron 100 -> omicron major -> omicron 90 -> omicron alpha, then back. In order for a smuggler (who must have some sort of relation to outcasts to get cardamine) to run this route, he must pass through two of the most heavily guarded systems in the game according to RP - alaska (which most people shouldnt even be able to get into), and omicron 100 - the order guard system.
Further, the player must pass through two nomad systems to make the route, and that isnt something your average trader or smuggler is likely to put himself through.
In order to fix this route:
-Remove the omicron major to omicron 90 jump hole in the omicron major system.
The order really doesnt need a way to get into outcast space, and that's all that the jump hole in question would otherwise be used for. Keepers can travel directly from 99 to iota to get around the removal of that jump hole as well.
2. The diamond/niobium route, which I'm less familiar with, travels from new berlin to kyushu (I think). This route uses mostly jump holes which no lawful trader should be going through. It also passes through chugoku, the blood dragon home system, and that system is supposed to be kept hidden - how is it all these traders know about it?
Feedback: For the most part, I agree. However, some smugglers (and smugglers in particular) and traders might have knowledge of some routes that are not in common knowledge. As far as running treacherous routes, well, the dream of quick riches can blind one to potential perils.
Quote:The main reason traders and smugglers get through guard systems so easily is the fact that they use trains/advanced trains, which are nearly impossible to stop via standard cruise disruptors.
Solution: Give guard system NPC's train cruise disruptors, allowing them to stop these vessels.
Feedback: Hmmm... Train cds? Interesting idea. Throw in some npc bombers for good measure.
Quote:Also, before anyone goes on a Faction Vs. Indie rant, -ALL- of my characters are independents, and I'm firmly against joining factions. That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be more restrictions on ships by factions however. Factions have proven themselves through the sacrifice of a large amount of credits, a credible RP background, and good conduct by their players - they've been approved and made official by admins, which has to say something - and it says that they know what they're doing, or at least the faction leaders do.
[b]Feedback: Again, no more power to playerfactions. The majority of them have good intentions and a strong sense of rp. But factions are not the ultimate arbiters of sterling rp. But they should lead by example.
Well now , I think you must be one of those BH faction/s leaders or something close to that. I don't realy care about Bounty Hunters in the way that their Role Play never interested me. If there is one official Bounty Hunter faction then it is not doing it's job. I've seen TOO many bounty hunter's and many of them shared a common tag infront of there names. So I think one should only assume that they are player established factions wich have not yet been aproved. Some examples are [Core] and BH-name.
Yes by all means you and the people who a in charge of those player groups / clans are ignorant.
The Corsairs made a topic where there capital ships regestered.
The Outcasts made the same topic.
The Order made one
And other factions made topics like that too. Why is there no Bounty Hunter capital ship regestry? Why do 99.9% of the capital ships flying under Bounty Hunter Tag and ID clueless about the fact that this is a RP server , not a "omg he is red to me shoot on sight" server.
I've seen Bounty Hunters everywhere , with almost any ship imaginable. There are no limits / no regestretions for your ships most of you Bounty Hunters are people who want to test up there guns. For me , the Bounty Hunter ID is just an excuse to atack most of the targets you want without getting sanctioned because they badz and you have to pwnz themz allz. Maby I have had bad luck with Bounty Hunters / maby there are some who actuallly RP , but from my humble expirience wich consists of meeting Bounty Hunters every single day , I'm yet to see a Bounty Hunter who RP's.
Why do I say you are ignorant ?
You don't care who your ship's end up with. It is clear to everyone and there grandma that a BH ID excuse to PvP , combined with one of the best ships in the game equals ooRP behaiveor and ruined RP. There is no ZoI for you people , you go everywhere and anytime you want. Also , from your post I undestand that you have no problems with being in 0-100 and that it is infact "ok" for me to log and see 2-3 Bounty Hunter capital ships having a blast of ooRP'ing in 0-100.
Every unlawfull player on the server has had enough of the ooRP and OOC of you bounty hunters.
hmm - reason for that is - that there is only ONE official faction for the BHGs around. - i think its the [BHL] that got official finally - or maybe i m mistaken. the [core] is unofficial. so are many others... .
why is that so? - last time, a BHG faction was suggested in the faction suggestion thread - a lot of the first replies were "get lost, not another BHG faction" - without realizing that we do actually have no official BHG faction that claims to be "the" BHG.
so, at least in that case - one can blame the ppl that brought up pessimism and "anti" replies into those suggestions. - fact is, we only have one BHG faction that represents not all the BHG, nor the leadership, but only an elite branch of them ( how a playerfaction "should" be imo ). - we do not have an official faction of the BHGs that has a right to restrict the use of ships.
cannot blame the BHG for it... as there have been plenty of suggestions in the past.
edit: darkwing is an old and official BHG faction, too. ( that got a lot of flak for nothing recently ) - they also don t claim to be the whole BHG but only a branch of it.
edit2: and - can we pleeeaasse stop taking such a general approach to the whole faction? - by far not all BHG players are *******s (edit: gosh, the commen term for the sphincter is not allowed? ) and scumbags, alright. by saying "Every unlawfull player on the server has had enough of the ooRP and OOC of you bounty hunters." you are insulting every player that plays BHG... so unless that is what you want, its been a very untactful comment.
I have never played a faction that is lawfull. All of the time I have spend playing on this server I have been unfriendly with Bounty Hunters. Now , even if I'm new here , thats alot of time spend dealing with them and the fact still remains , I have not seen one who can RP. What am I to think ?
edit - Bounty Hunters who RP are like Bigfoot. Some people have seen it but people still think it's a mith...
you are free to think it - but writing it to others is insulting them. - its like saying that all ppl with red hair are idiots, cause you know 3 red haired people that you do not like, isn t it? - so unless you know all the bounty hunters around, have read their stories and histories and then experienced them all ingame, you should not make such a comment.
for all you know - its only a minority you know - and i am not sure if you read all the stories of those that you have encountered. - of course there are bad ones around, - but it takes a lot of efford to be "right" to judge like that over all those people.
the consequence could be like that: since i consider the RP on my BHG to be fine.... i could aswell say that, - since ppl consider it utter trash, i can aswell behave like ppl claim me to be. - next time, i could kos every pirate around and attack without uttering a single word. furthermore i could buy a battlecruiser and walz into every system messing up ppls roleplay. - cause.... after all, it makes no difference. all effords to develope a unique BHG roleplay have resulted in a general judgement about all BHGs being worthless.
edit: @Eternal: no worries - its only about a few words there - i know that there are players that use the BHG ID / faction as a free ticket to pvp. - but its not the faction itself. - its just that the BHG is the "last" faction that is focusing on fighting and has no organized leadership in terms of a centralized leadership that can command its members around like a military. - thats what we got cause we limited the mercenary ID. - like i wrote elsewhere - if we limited the BHG like the mercs - i predict the next faction to be brought down to be IMG ( they are fighting at least the outcasts and have warships, too )
I have agreed on many ocassions with you , Jinx. I'm sorry if I have insulted you in anyway. There is no point to argue with you , I'm surtain that you have more expirience in the matter then I do.
Ah well , the topic isn't about flaming the Bounty Hunters , so let's just leave it here.
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