Vagrant Raiders (VR-)

[Kazinsal]

Apparently the first line of the ID is too ambiguous. It has been removed and the second line has been altered so we don't look like a bunch of terrorists.

I would like to note that the line in question was lifted verbatim from an SRP Cannon wrote for us two years ago for our capital ships after our split from the Lane Hackers ID/IFF, and was not a creation of my own.

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Retired, permanently.

[DarthBindo]

Apparently the first line of the ID is too ambiguous. It has been removed and the second line has been altered so we don't look like a bunch of terrorists.

I would like to note that the line in question was lifted verbatim from an SRP Cannon wrote for us two years ago for our capital ships after our split from the Lane Hackers ID/IFF, and was not a creation of my own.

Good to know. I'd actually change it to just plain "Can pirate", seeing as you can pirate for things other than cargo or credits if you want to.
You should probably also add in another line about the non-trader ships you want to be engaging.
Or... i dunnno i forget what just get's assumed with ID's nowadays. I still think in terms of the 4.85 model of ID that specifically stated your allowed actions, but I know when they were rewritten there was talk of the ID's being less "allowances" and more restrictions in nature.
Take it as you will.

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gone four years, first day back: Zoners still getting shot in Theta :|

[Chrome.Flare]

I see a very disturbing reputation sheet..

How can you be neutral with rogues and allied with lane hackers when you just claim those systems from them and not at war??[not to even mention the npc bases/ships there]
What's even more disturbing is that if they pirate in those system you have the right and will shoot them according to your own laws..

Besides the aforementioned Facts you seems to forgot that Mollys are allies with rogues[you declared war,assaulting their base(golden coin) and killed molly id ships],you are in groups with lawfulls when they hunt unlawfuls[even if you don't shoot them] that will not be liked by unlawfulls
*i'll just throw Outcast in this discussion since their allied with liberty unlawfulls and they hunt there together in the area you attempt to claim


Now let's think ahead in the future:
One of your NO- citizens,since there isnt / wont be tagged protected and is open to everyone who wishes to join
or
one of your own members VR- / NO-VR- tagged vessels will pirate a corporation/factions that is lawfully to either of Bretonia or Liberty Government's;you will end up in a position that you will be at war with both lawfuls and unlawfulls of sirius and gallia alike..something that is very likely to happen..
Now the ooRP part:

You don't have the activity/resources to build/maintain a POB in Kansas,unlawfulls will destroy it pretty quick since they don't like you[VR],since the only bases to supply yourself might end up be Zoners[only TAZ actually] and junkers[but not Puerto Rico] may be lawfulls ones for a while[until you wont be welcomed anymore];what i'm trying to say is seeing how many unlawfulls failed to maintain a POB since they didnt had the will to do so..[best arguments "We ain't traders" ]even more that is such a looooong way to gather up resources for it


I just don't wanna see another faction that wants 3 systems,an ID,a ship line[you did show models for it] and that can end up be red to anyone;to go through the similar process of those who preceded it

[Savas]

I see a very disturbing reputation sheet..

How can you be neutral with rogues and allied with lane hackers when you just claim those systems from them and not at war??[not to even mention the npc bases/ships there]

The only group that ever gave a damn about Kansas (That I know of) is the NTF, as of now the only territory we really claim outside of Kansas are the areas surrounding the jumphole connections to the former, which don't overlap any real territorial claims as far as I am aware.

What's even more disturbing is that if they pirate in those system you have the right and will shoot them according to your own laws..

There would likely be a few things preventing that from happening. The first being that we would probably try to roleplay it, instead of saying "badpiratedie", because that's what you do on a roleplay server, if we're forced into combat (Something which we would avoid) with said theoretical Rogue pirate a transmission would be sent to the Rogue officials I assume, not to mention before we actually invest in a base there ALL factions in the area will be addressed diplomatically.

Besides the aforementioned Facts you seems to forgot that Mollys are allies with rogues[you declared war,assaulting their base(golden coin) and killed molly id ships],you are in groups with lawfulls when they hunt unlawfuls[even if you don't shoot them] that will not be liked by unlawfulls

I'll leave that first part for the actual High Command lads to answer. As for us grouping with lawfuls - screens please, the only time we grouped with lawfuls was either to fight the Rheinlanders in Liberty, or to repel Nomads and GRN in eastern Bretonia.

*i'll just throw Outcast in this discussion since their allied with liberty unlawfulls and they hunt there together in the area you attempt to claim

Why would the Outcasts bother us? We've had nothing but cordial relations with them and we have no plans on cutting into/disrupting the flow of cardamine anywhere. Granted we are not allied with them, but there simply is no reason for them to shoot at us. In addition it's not as if the Rogues have any qualms against us, we have cooperated in the past and even now are cordial.

Now let's think ahead in the future:
One of your NO- citizens,since there isnt / wont be tagged protected and is open to everyone who wishes to join
or
one of your own members VR- / NO-VR- tagged vessels will pirate a corporation/factions that is lawfully to either of Bretonia or Liberty Government's;you will end up in a position that you will be at war with both lawfuls and unlawfulls of sirius and gallia alike..something that is very likely to happen..

The current VR- know well enough who we are and are not supposed to shoot at and NO- civilians are not permitted to pirate as far as I aware. Now in this less than likely situation you propose in which one of our guys shoots a friendly; it's really simple - roleplay, diplo would be done - again I will leave that for the HC to explain in greater detail.

You don't have the activity/resources to build/maintain a POB in Kansas,

Considering that we have two days more activity than the Mollies who maintain two bases (One in Londonderry, one in Dublin), and members who log consistently, your point is absolutely null. A single Core 4 is not actually hard to maintain provided you log on which we do a lot of.

unlawfulls will destroy it pretty quick since they don't like you[VR],since the only bases to supply yourself might end up be Zoners[only TAZ actually] and junkers[but not Puerto Rico] may be lawfulls ones for a while[until you wont be welcomed anymore];what i'm trying to say is seeing how many unlawfulls failed to maintain a POB since they didnt had the will to do so..[best arguments "We ain't traders" ]even more that is such a looooong way to gather up resources for it

The only thing I got out of this was 'Everybody will end up shooting us for no reason' I have to ask yet again; why would the unlawfuls of the area decide to evict us? We don't stake any claims in their territory outside of small areas around the Kansas connections (Which are more or less unclaimed to begin with), we aren't and will not interfere with their pirating operations so long as they don't pirate NO- tagged vessels who didn't shoot first, and although we don't trade in cardamine anymore we won't mess with their flow of cardamine - not to mention we're not even allowed in Liberty core systems at the moment unless the Navy is escorting us out so, I reiterate, there is simply no reason to shoot at us for the moment.

I just don't wanna see another faction that wants 3 systems,an ID,a ship line[you did show models for it] and that can end up be red to anyone;to go through the similar process of those who preceded it

We don't actually want the entirety of the three systems in our unrestricted ZOI, we want an ID yes, but again that's for the HC to explain, not to mention what you want is irrelevant, and as for the ship line - really? Yes a few of our members made models for them but we don't even plan on making a real ship request (Which is not even possible right now) until we actually show that we can and will maintain our official status - the BW and civilian lines work perfectly for us in the mean time and we are absolutely content with using them.

Next time you want to post feed back please read our RP, transmissions, history etc. and make an actual constructive post - the only thing I picked up from this were null/improbable scenarios in which we were getting royally screwed by unlawfuls who don't hate us rather than any information that actually helps us improve ourselves.

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[Chrome.Flare]

The only group that ever gave a damn about Kansas (That I know of) is the NTF, as of now the only territory we really claim outside of Kansas are the areas surrounding the jumphole connections to the former, which don't overlap any real territorial claims as far as I am aware.

you actually did claimed the full area of Humboldt and you said you allow the junker congress and the miners that are there,something that is not yours to allow...
Please read your own faction posts..will you?

There would likely be a few things preventing that from happening. The first being that we would probably try to roleplay it, instead of saying "badpiratedie", because that's what you do on a roleplay server, if we're forced into combat (Something which we would avoid) with said theoretical Rogue pirate a transmission would be sent to the Rogue officials I assume, not to mention before we actually invest in a base there ALL factions in the area will be addressed diplomatically.

Good attempt of avoiding the question/problem..
How would you RP it? Do mention of a way that the character in this situation would submit to your will..?I can't find any..

I'll leave that first part for the actual High Command lads to answer. As for us grouping with lawfuls - screens please, the only time we grouped with lawfuls was either to fight the Rheinlanders in Liberty, or to repel Nomads and GRN in eastern Bretonia.

I'll try and look in my screenshot folder,but the few GBs that i have does not sound good enough for me to do so..

Why would the Outcasts bother us? We've had nothing but cordial relations with them and we have no plans on cutting into/disrupting the flow of cardamine anywhere. Granted we are not allied with them, but there simply is no reason for them to shoot at us. In addition it's not as if the Rogues have any qualms against us, we have cooperated in the past and even now are cordial.

Yes ..you had good relation to outcast in the past,when you had another leadership[2011 or earlier?] another members[of both sides]
But now in the present time you no longer smuggle but instead you're against it,something you have used to get by with the lawful side,so not either they have not a cordial relation toward you but more of a hostile one
Basically you believe to be a quasi-lawful faction when you do nothing to achieve it,towards both sides of the line..

Considering that we have two days more activity than the Mollies who maintain two bases (One in Londonderry, one in Dublin), your point is absolutely null. A single Core 4 is not actually hard to maintain provided you log on which we do quite a bit.

Good choice to take as an example,i'm guessing you are not aware that they barely make it through the day with FOW+base resources,and even then..they do get something out of it..such as taxes and a strategic position
Are your group willing to block the jump holes in or out of Kansas?

Next time you want to post feed back please read our RP, transmissions, history etc. and make an actual constructive post

I did read..actually most of it besides some of the old stuff[@2011] that got buried in forums;and i do think i made a constructive post,although one that you may not like but not all of them have to be good regarding of what you are trying to accomplish ..

[Savas]

you actually did claimed the full area of Humboldt and you said you allow the junker congress and the miners that are there,something that is not yours to allow...
Please read your own faction posts..will you?

Not exactly, yes I was wrong about only taking the connections but we have no control over the Junkers and their miners, they will own their own territory as they did before and it will be status quo, the Rogue base will also have its status quo territory - because, well, they're the Rogues.

My apologies, I read so many of our posts that misfiring neurons in my hippocampus fail to convert long term to short term memory.

Good attempt of avoiding the question/problem..
How would you RP it? Do mention of a way that the character in this situation would submit to your will..?I can't find any..
I'll leave that first part for the actual High Command lads to answer. As for us grouping with lawfuls - screens please, the only time we grouped with lawfuls was either to fight the Rheinlanders in Liberty, or to repel Nomads and GRN in eastern Bretonia.

I pretty much laid it out for you there, how else does one RP with a pirate besides a fight? Actually it's pretty spontaneous and depends on the situation but the typical situation would be to ask him to leave if he refuses then a fight starts, followed by diplo transmissions to Narco.

I'll try and look in my screenshot folder,but the few GBs that i have does not sound good enough for me to do so..

*Thumbs up*

Yes ..you had good relation to outcast in the past,when you had another leadership[2011 or earlier?] another members[of both sides]
But now in the present time you no longer smuggle but instead you're against it,something you have used to get by with the lawful side,so not either they have not a cordial relation toward you but more of a hostile one
Basically you believe to be a quasi-lawful faction when you do nothing to achieve it,towards both sides of the line..

Actually we still had good relations with the Outcasts when Troy took over and nothing really changed. We do in fact smuggle and engage in illegal activities elsewhere such as Rheinland and eventually Gallia, possibly with Kusari as well though less likely. The only things illegal in NO- space are the following
- Slaves
- Human Organs
- Artifacts
- Gallic Artifacts
- Nomad materials

Good choice to take as an example,i'm guessing you are not aware that they barely make it through the day with FOW+base resources,and even then..they do get something out of it..such as taxes and a strategic position
Are your group willing to block the jump holes in or out of Kansas?

Um, yes, I basically said that. With one day of activity they can fuel both bases, albeit barely, we've three days and dedicated members. I really doubt we will block the holes, it tends to go badly not to mention it makes literally no iRP sense for VR- to base them up as we want traffic plus we only really want one PoB to deal with.

I did read..actually most of it besides some of the old stuff[@2011] that got buried in forums;and i do think i made a constructive post,although one that you may not like but not all of them have to be good regarding of what you are trying to accomplish ..

If you want to refute my first ad hominem post please do so through my mailbox.

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[Chrome.Flare]

Not exactly, yes I was wrong about only taking the connections but we have no control over the Junkers and their miners, they will own their own territory as they did before and it will be status quo, the Rogue base will also have its status quo territory - because, well, they're the Rogues.

My apologies, I read so many of our posts that misfiring neurons in my hippocampus fail to convert long term to short term memory.

why would the rogues accept willingly your claims on this large territory?

I pretty much laid it out for you there, how else does one RP with a pirate besides a fight? Actually it's pretty spontaneous and depends on the situation but the typical situation would be to ask him to leave if he refuses then a fight starts, followed by diplo transmissions to Narco.

What's even more disturbing is that if they pirate in those system you have the right and will shoot them according to your own laws..

So later on after you tried to dismiss my comment you came to same outcome..shoot them
What would you say to Narcotic,besides that your faction attempts to do the same "job" as the lawfulls one but you are claiming to be neutral to them so you can dock at their base to take supplies for POB instead adding so many extra minutes doing it somewhere far away?

The only things illegal in NO- space are the following
- Slaves
- Human Organs
- Artifacts
- Gallic Artifacts
- Nomad materials

i could've swear that cardamine was on the interdiction list[but i guess i'll just have to trust your word for it,since you can edit it],however disrupting the slaves transports to Planet Malta will severely damage the Outcast as a nation,so..you are if not in same position as before,maybe even worse

[Savas]

So later on after you tried to dismiss my comment you came to same outcome..shoot them
What would you say to Narcotic,besides that your faction attempts to do the same "job" as the lawfulls one but you are claiming to be neutral to them so you can dock at their base to take supplies for POB instead adding so many extra minutes doing it somewhere far away?

I actually agreed with you in the first place, that's assuming they are uncooperative. I wouldn't say anything to Narcotic, somebody in HC would and I won't speak for them. We really don't do the same thing as the lawfuls, we simply don't tolerate people attacking our citizens in our space our smuggling goods we ban in our space, not to mention the VR- still pirates and smuggles elsewhere in the sector. I highly doubt we keep the Rogues neutral for the sole purpose of docking on Fortaleza for FoWs because we aren't even planning on doing that, not to mention Forta doesn't even sell FoWs.

i could've swear that cardamine was on the interdiction list[but i guess i'll just have to trust your word for it,since you can edit it],however disrupting the slaves transports to Planet Malta will severely damage the Outcast as a nation,so..you are if not in same position as before,maybe even worse

I actually don't have access to the NO- forums account, or the VR- account, the last change done to the page was approximately six hours ago - I'm only low command after all. The contraband list only applies to NO- space and we have no interests in enforcing it elsewhere. Granted if we see a Corsair transport carrying a load of artifacts, he'll get pirated/shot because we are at war with the Corsairs. The Maltans and their slave trade are fine. Also, it's safe to assume that as former, for lack of a better phrase, Hackers/Maltans many VR personnel still are addicted to cardamine, not to mention many civilians of the VR are likely addicted as well as many of them are your typical disenfranchised ex-pirate, ex-smuggler thus banning cardamine despite us not smuggling it anymore would be counterproductive to basically every part of our society. Not to mention there are no real slave trade routes running through our claims, only the bottom part of Mag is claimed.

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[Chrome.Flare]

I actually agreed with you in the first place, that's assuming they are uncooperative. I wouldn't say anything to Narcotic, somebody in HC would and I won't speak for them. We really don't do the same thing as the lawfuls, we simply don't tolerate people attacking our citizens in our space our smuggling goods we ban in our space, not to mention the VR- still pirates and smuggles elsewhere in the sector. I highly doubt we keep the Rogues neutral for the sole purpose of docking on Fortaleza for FoWs because we aren't even planning on doing that, not to mention Forta doesn't even sell FoWs.

Why wouldn't they be uncooperative?
That's what i have been keep asking
Would your group mind doing some actual RP before making a full blown house within liberty and getting IDs,ships,bases
That's look to me a little like powergaming at it's finest
You ask so much of us to accept your "twisted" rp and adapt our own character rp with it along the way,when you give so little in return[as in you only rp with members of your own faction and neither/all of those that are required before doing something of this magnitude]
*Fortaleza it has FOW..Mactan[LH] as well in magellan,montezuma base[LR] at Cortez-magellan JH as well
**paduba rogues actually don't exist[inactive] and not official,besides i guess it could very well be one of you as member

[Savas]

Why wouldn't they be uncooperative?

Depends on the person, don't you think?

Would your group mind doing some actual RP before making a full blown house within liberty and getting IDs,ships,bases
That's look to me a little like powergaming at it's finest

The VR has been RPing for years, don't even start with that.

You ask so much of us to accept your "twisted" rp and adapt our own character rp with it along the way,when you give so little in return[as in you only rp with members of your own faction and neither/all of those that are required before doing something of this magnitude]

I'm not even gonna....

*Fortaleza it has FOW..Mactan[LH] as well in magellan,montezuma base[LR] at Cortez-magellan JH as well

You're point? Let me guess you're back on that conspiracy of yours that we only diplo with LH and LR for FoWs?

**paduba rogues actually don't exist[inactive] and not official,besides i guess it could very well be one of you as member

No member of VR- is a member of PLR, the only member of PLR that I actually know of is Altejago a.k.a. Moka.

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