This topic has come up many many many many many many times now.
The mining mod was designed to give a boost to corporate groups which otherwise did not exist.
Pre mining mod Molly: Dammit man where's BMM we don't have our mortal enemy to shoot at this blows. Dublin is empty and there is nothing for us to do I know let's camp West Point.
Post mining mod Molly: GIVE ME A PICKAXE OR GIVE ME THREAD
I am extraordinarily wary of spreading the love by giving mining bonus' to pierat groups such as the Hessians, Mollies and so on. To be honest they generally have the hardware advantage over the corporations as well as the numbers. So what does this mean?
It means you will wake up, undock from Arranmore to find that the 8 BMM mining ships that you spotted yesterday and considered to be a tasty dish have been replaced with 8 Molly mining ships.
There will be lots of Mollys on the server all of a sudden. But not very many "Mollys", if you catch my drift.
<strike>Then you'll get angry and demand that the Molly bonus be removed</strike> Actually you'll probably all buy battleships and shoot the BAF. But I still think it's a bad idea.
I think there is a simple solution for that. Make the mining bonus for the Mollies lower than that of the BMM( and Hessians lower than Daumann/Kruger etc etc). If all people care about is the yield then they'd still drift towards the factions which provide the highest ones while the Mollies will still be able to mine for a decent profit.
Enjoy that you can shoot BMM. Dynamic asteroids. You can mine in a Barghest and the yields are amazing.
In short: No meatsticks. I am not of a mind to change my position on this anytime soon.
So basically what you want is that miners can sit in one place, travel a few systems and make obscene amounts of money while other factions that has similar characteristics need to work in groups to make less money? While I do understand that pirates can simply pirate to get their ore it hardly seems fair to neglect such a huge part of a faction because "corporations need love".
This whole "corporation love" wave that's been going on lately is understandable. Corporations were dead putting it bluntly. But here is the truth: You can never spread activity evenly across factions. Just like everyone did the Niobium-Diamond run everyone will run towards whatever activity is the most profitable. The only thing you did was shift the balance from pirates to miners and mining corps. (not even all corps mind you.)
PS: I especially liked that last phrase on your other post because what I have seen is exactly the opposite, that being BAF battleships with little knowledge of RP. And guess where they got the money from.
PPS: No, I do not own a Molly, before you even start throwing accusations of bias at me.
' Wrote:So basically what you want is that miners can sit in one place, travel a few systems and make obscene amounts of money while other factions that has similar characteristics need to work in groups to make less money? While I do understand that pirates can simply pirate to get their ore it hardly seems fair to neglect such a huge part of a faction because "corporations need love".
This whole "corporation love" wave that's been going on lately is understandable. Corporations were dead putting it bluntly. But here is the truth: You can never spread activity evenly across factions. Just like everyone did the Niobium-Diamond run everyone will run towards whatever activity is the most profitable. The only thing you did was shift the balance from pirates to miners and mining corps. (not even all corps mind you.)
PS: I especially liked that last phrase on your other post because what I have seen is exactly the opposite, that being BAF battleships with little knowledge of RP. And guess where they got the money from.
PPS: No, I do not own a Molly, before you even start throwing accusations of bias at me.
Yes that's exactly right AJBeast. I want miners to sit in one place, travel a few systems and make obscene amounts of money while other factions that have similar characteristics need to work in groups to make less money.
You hit the nail exactly on the head.
I'm glad that the intent is shining through.
Now to the serious reply.
I don't think you're biased. I think that you're selfish, insincere, short sighted and biased. But then it's going to be a long time before my faith in certain persons is restored following the bugged scrap field fiasco following the server move and some of the code upset that followed.
You airquote "corporate love" in one paragraph and admit that corporations need love in the second. You troll the idea behind mining in one paragraph and then demand that system be applied to other groups in the second. You admit that pirates have alternative options to corporations in the first paragraph and then decry diversity in the second.
Then you complain, what, that everyone runs to the group that is most profitable? How is that even relevant? What are you trying to say? Do you even know? What are you even trying to argue? That pirate groups should be able to generate commercial revenue while waiting for corporate targets to amble by? That the idea that it's -wrong- that Corporations are in a position to generate wealth at a greater rate than organizations that are given license to hunt them for gain?
Here's the rub. This is a game mechanics issue. There are two groups involved here. Hunters and prey. There are the appeals, pros and cons of group A. There are the appeals, pros and cons of group B. Group A has teeth. Group B has fat and fur.
That's the system that we've established in Discovery. That's what's staying. Pax Corporations.
What the mollies need is smugglers to sell their gold, to, not some new trade route so they can lolmine like the rest of Dublin. Actually, I'd really like if profits on any gold route would be decreased. I see too many cases of miners loading on their own transport, or simply mining ships transporting across half the galaxy.
Actually, strip 80% of guns from miners and transports. Get people to have to work together to make profit, for god's sake. 10+ gun mining ships, 12+ gun transports - this is a farce. And I'm saying that as a transport pilot.
I hate n00b/lolwut/OORP minegrinders, and this Molly gold route idea would only create more of them. Especially since they would use jumpholes, thus pretty much create a way for unchallanged powermining.
Also: what's with this thread necromancy? This thing was dead for over 3 months now.
I agree completely about the transport overpower they should be simmillar to what the npcs are flying so that escorts can actually get a job and pirates dont have to have gunboats or bombers to make a kill, some of those high level transports are tanks! - this is precisly the reason i fly a whale
But the mollies do need somewhere to sell thier gold ore, even if its close by for only 1000, as theres no mention of them really selling to smugglers from the npcs, and this still doesn't cover the fact that they still can't mine for s**t.
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' Wrote:Transports and miners are sitting ducks for pirates etc.
Doing anything to them now would unbalance things a bit too much.
Mollys ought to have a gold bonus but as they are classified as unlawful, they aren't allowed it, for balance reasons.
That said, the winds of change are blowing.
Yes some miners are sitting ducks for pirates, but this is as it should be, thats what escorts are for! And the high grade miners are often tough enough to just run from anything short of a bomber anyway.
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' Wrote:Yes that's exactly right AJBeast. I want miners to sit in one place, travel a few systems and make obscene amounts of money while other factions that have similar characteristics need to work in groups to make less money.
You hit the nail exactly on the head.
I'm glad that the intent is shining through.
Now to the serious reply.
I don't think you're biased. I think that you're selfish, insincere, short sighted and biased. But then it's going to be a long time before my faith in certain persons is restored following the bugged scrap field fiasco following the server move and some of the code upset that followed.
You airquote "corporate love" in one paragraph and admit that corporations need love in the second. You troll the idea behind mining in one paragraph and then demand that system be applied to other groups in the second. You admit that pirates have alternative options to corporations in the first paragraph and then decry diversity in the second.
Then you complain, what, that everyone runs to the group that is most profitable? How is that even relevant? What are you trying to say? Do you even know? What are you even trying to argue? That pirate groups should be able to generate commercial revenue while waiting for corporate targets to amble by? That the idea that it's -wrong- that Corporations are in a position to generate wealth at a greater rate than organizations that are given license to hunt them for gain?
Here's the rub. This is a game mechanics issue. There are two groups involved here. Hunters and prey. There are the appeals, pros and cons of group A. There are the appeals, pros and cons of group B. Group A has teeth. Group B has fat and fur.
That's the system that we've established in Discovery. That's what's staying. Pax Corporations.
Jeez someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.
Your argument - full of pointless hate, and unhelpfull bile as it was - would seem to make sense, except for the fact that you've got your basic ideas wrong, the situation is not "hunters and Prey", it is defenders and thieves, with bmm and mollies each considering themselves the 1st and the other the 2nd, so why would the mollies be defending the gold unless they were mining it? The mollies are not a straight pirate faction, they make thier money "Pillfering the queens coffers" and as the class that actually originated mining gold in dublin for bmm, it makes sense that they would have all the others expertise, prehaps more as it is all they mine whereas bmm mines other things aswell.
However the mollies do not have the funding of the bmm, so it makes sense that they would not have as good ships - therfore balance and rp is available by adding a smaller mining ship for the mollies - especially since as an unlawfull ship it would be equipped with more defences thus reducing the hold space, - so profiteers would still head for bmm with its larger cargo hold.
And as has been pointed out if giving mollies the mining bonus would finish bmm, why isnt everyone IMG?
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