Of biodomes and breadbaskets.

[n00bl3t]

Sorry, I missed this. From all perceptions the answer would be yes. Dirt on the ground. Sun in the sky. Gravity and the whole nine yards. Granted that's just what I've seen by looking through the glass.

I think you would have a fair point of answering no to it as well.

For one, it would not be against a stretch of reality in-game for stations to be able to turn off gravity. (Less strain on plants, allowing them to grow faster, higher and assuming, and I think reasonably here, that they grow towards the light, or along a stake, etc.)

Or more sunlight, since stations can more accurately utilise mirrors to allow photosynthesis all the time. (Or, artificial lighting for it, but so can planets, so moot point in context.)

Also, it would mean that biodomes are more efficient than planet-side farming.

Edit:

Always consider the source of your information. That's an excellent lesson when considering infocards in guard systems.

Now, if you don't mind. I'm going to fly to the GC guard system to buy some cardamine from their cardamine planet, which I will enjoy on the newly colonized planet in the HF guard system. Following which I might enjoy a glass of water drawn from the stolen gas miner in the XA guard system.

And as Dusty said, Guard system information isn't always reliable, and I don't believe that infocard was ever edited from the one Igiss gave to it.

Noted.

---

Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Jinx]

sizes in freelancer are screwed up...



welcome to the inside of a biodome ( or a biotube ) - btw. that image comes from babylon 5. if we imagine suns to be sunsized, planets to be planetsized - we shouldn t have trouble imagining biodomes to be sufficient sized, too


there is little lore about biodome tech and how much food they produce. ( that is little lore except what players may have written down, which i d only call subjective )

in the stone age - one acre of land produced X/2 amounts of food.
in the middle ages - one acre of land produced X amount of food.
in our age the same acre poduces X times 10 amount of food.
in thousands of years the same acre may produce X times 10000 amount of food.

---

Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Charo]

But seriously...........wut?

---

[Marburg]

Whenever people start talking about the science of discovery, I remember how many users of internet forums are huge nerds.

Thats interesting, because for most of us, the food we eat is coming from half way across our countries, or even the world. Eat fruit or vegetables during the winter? Or chocolate? For most of us, a significant portion of the food we eat comes from far away. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? There are many differing opinions on the matter and a few that actually impact on the discussion. The Buy Local movement is a good example one side of the debate. They suggest that making more of your food local serves a positive purpose in several way, first local product does not need to be shipped as far, the benefits are many, lower transport costs which lead to lower prices, less pollution, increase in local economy, and less need for chemical preservatives in food to name a few. Then there are the opponents of this movement, lets call them globalists for lack of a more descriptive name. These globalist will tell you that while much of what the Buy Local people say is true, it is only true on the surface. Globalist explain that first, using local products exclusively makes it impossible to have the varied diet that most people in the west have come to expect. You see not everything grows in every climate, for example, sugar and coffee only grow in a few places in the world. So that would mean most people would not have any caffinated beverage to drink if we only had local food. Second the globalists would explain that while local products save money in shipping costs, that by creating large specialized farms focusing on one product to export, production costs are cut significantly, globalists would say, the lower production costs more than out weight the lowered shipping costs of local products.



How does that effect this discussion you ask? Well, It may be much cheaper to ship food from Freeport 9 to Crete than from Kyushu, but the production cost on Kyushu would be much lower than the production costs on Freeport 9. Why? Because Kyushu is a large planet, specialized in growing food, while Freeport 9 is a station with maybe 200 people on it.



So, while whether it is cheaper to move food from Freeport 9 or Kyushu is up for debate, it is my opinion that after quite a bit of thought, that it is most likely cheaper to move food from Kyushu or Cambridge than to move it from Freeport 9.

I haven't had one in years, so I can't say for certain...but I think Zelot just gave me a nerdgasm

:mellow:

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[teschy]

Freeport 9 is a frequent stop for criminal organizations looking to buy Food from the Freeport's biodome
------------------------------------
The station was dubbed Freeport 6, and with the addition of a Synth Foods biodome, has become largely self-sufficient.
------------------------------------
Freeport 2 was founded in 650 A.S. by displaced Texas settlers, Hamburg drifters, and a variety of other individuals looking for safe haven. They aligned themselves with the Zoner movement and its open-to-all philosophy, then purchased a series of Synth Foods biodomes for Food production. The exploding demand for Food from the adjacent Texas System and from local criminal elements has provided them with a steady market for their surplus.


No one said the Corsairs were fed by the Zoners entirely. There are many smugglers that buy cheap artifacts from Crete, and come back with food or medical supplies. It's this business that kept the Corsairs from falling apart, since their planet is so barren.

Now, reading the infocards above, you'll find that Synth Foods manufactures all these biodomes. But they don't sell them to criminals. The Zoners bought some, and they've been making quite a bit of a cash out of it. The market's flowing and everyone is happy - especially the pirates.

But as you can see, something went bonkers along the way, and the Corsairs started pooping out Osirises and the Zoners became a federation of sorts, somewhat militarized, and with really big and powerful ships. It just does not make sense with the current lore, infocards and everything. Freeport 9 originally had a population of 100, so that dome was more than enough for full autonomy in that aspect, and they prolly had plenty left for the market.

There is one little grain of truth in this Zoner-Corsair situation though.

The Bounty Hunters Guild has taken advantage of several Freeports in the Edge Worlds to attack the Corsairs’ home system. So far they’ve been more of nuisance than a real threat, but the presence of Zoner-controlled bases so close to Omicron Gamma has provoked intense debate among the Elders of Crete regarding the future of nearby Independent bases.

But that doesn't much sense now.. since the Corsairs are not getting shot by the BHG anymore.. so why would they want to blow up a station that isn't doing them any harm?

Oh.. politics... well, We'll just go in circles. It's should've been called the 'Zoner-movement', not the Zoner alliance. That's one factor which makes all this seem so odd and awkward. They shouldn't have allied with -any- faction out there, because it defeats their purpose and ideology. Who's fault is that? Whoever designed the Discovery storyline, since the current server players picked up from that, and made even more alliances and stuff, thinking it's the right thing to do.

So what are we left with? A group of Zoners that tried to evolve into a powerful, Sirius wide house.. and got on their knees now, and the remaining ones will re-become what they were supposed to be, unaffiliated and open-to-all? Sounds good to me.

But it seems like certain factions, such as the [A] (who are now being supported by all the corsairs) won't agree on these terms, since they're the ones with a burning desire for conquest.

You see, I don't think the Corsairs Elders would've let this happen, especially at this given moment in time. They don't need to control a base, they just need a staging area - and Freeport 9 already offers them that. It also brings them Pharmaceuticals and Food from various parties. They may not come in industrial quantities, but they're better than nothing. How long would Freeport 9 survive under Corsair control? Who's gonna supply anymore? Cryer surely won't, as well as the rest of the Zoners usually visiting this place, and perhaps many other freelancers and independents. The only reason why the Corsairs would've destroyed or taken over Freeport 9, was due to the BHG staging attacks from it. But since that's not happening anymore, I don't see why they should take it. It's useless.

Freeport 9 is successful not because of the biodomes only, but because of their open-for-all policy.

[Tenshu]

Hmm, I always knew that Zoners got food from the cores for trade with others. As far as i was aware the biodomes were merely there to feed the population of the Freeport itself. And even then it was strained to do so. Hence the slowly rising cost of food the farther you get from the house systems.

BUT I HAVE A SOLUTION!

We take that big ole Dyson Sphere those Nomads dont use anymore and make it a gigantic farm to feed all!!

If I remember the surface area of a Dyson Sphere correctly (from Star trek:P) It could feed over 1/2 of Sirius. Rawr. The surface area would be determined by the size and age of the star but you get my drift.

I am making wild approximations here. I have no numbers to crunch and admit I am horrible at math.

---

[n00bl3t]

Freeport 9 is a frequent stop for criminal organizations looking to buy Food from the Freeport's biodome
------------------------------------
The station was dubbed Freeport 6, and with the addition of a Synth Foods biodome, has become largely self-sufficient.
------------------------------------
Freeport 2 was founded in 650 A.S. by displaced Texas settlers, Hamburg drifters, and a variety of other individuals looking for safe haven. They aligned themselves with the Zoner movement and its open-to-all philosophy, then purchased a series of Synth Foods biodomes for Food production. The exploding demand for Food from the adjacent Texas System and from local criminal elements has provided them with a steady market for their surplus.
No one said the Corsairs were fed by the Zoners entirely. There are many smugglers that buy cheap artifacts from Crete, and come back with food or medical supplies. It's this business that kept the Corsairs from falling apart, since their planet is so barren.

Now, reading the infocards above, you'll find that Synth Foods manufactures all these biodomes. But they don't sell them to criminals. The Zoners bought some, and they've been making quite a bit of a cash out of it. The market's flowing and everyone is happy - especially the pirates.

But as you can see, something went bonkers along the way, and the Corsairs started pooping out Osirises and the Zoners became a federation of sorts, somewhat militarized, and with really big and powerful ships. It just does not make sense with the current lore, infocards and everything. Freeport 9 originally had a population of 100, so that dome was more than enough for full autonomy in that aspect, and they prolly had plenty left for the market.

There is one little grain of truth in this Zoner-Corsair situation though.

The Bounty Hunters Guild has taken advantage of several Freeports in the Edge Worlds to attack the Corsairs'€™ home system. So far they'€™ve been more of nuisance than a real threat, but the presence of Zoner-controlled bases so close to Omicron Gamma has provoked intense debate among the Elders of Crete regarding the future of nearby Independent bases.

But that doesn't much sense now.. since the Corsairs are not getting shot by the BHG anymore.. so why would they want to blow up a station that isn't doing them any harm?

Oh.. politics... well, We'll just go in circles. It's should've been called the 'Zoner-movement', not the Zoner alliance. That's one factor which makes all this seem so odd and awkward. They shouldn't have allied with -any- faction out there, because it defeats their purpose and ideology. Who's fault is that? Whoever designed the Discovery storyline, since the current server players picked up from that, and made even more alliances and stuff, thinking it's the right thing to do.

So what are we left with? A group of Zoners that tried to evolve into a powerful, Sirius wide house.. and got on their knees now, and the remaining ones will re-become what they were supposed to be, unaffiliated and open-to-all? Sounds good to me.

But it seems like certain factions, such as the [A] (who are no being supported by all the corsairs) won't agree on these terms, since they're the ones with a burning desire for conquest.

You see, I don't think the Corsairs Elders would've let this happen, especially at this given moment in time. They don't need to control a base, they just need a staging area - and Freeport 9 already offers them that. It also brings them Pharmaceuticals and Food from various parties. They may not come in industrial quantities, but they're better than nothing. How long would Freeport 9 survive under Corsair control? Who's gonna supply anymore? Cryer surely won't, as well as the rest of the Zoners usually visiting this place, and perhaps many other freelancers and independents. The only reason why the Corsairs would've destroyed or taken over Freeport 9, was due to the BHG staging attacks from it. But since that's not happening anymore, I don't see why they should take it. It's useless.

Freeport 9 is successful not because of the biodomes only, but because of their open-for-all policy.

I was waiting until this would frustrate you enough to post a wall of text.

Other people who tl;dr'd and are just reading my response, read the above, it pretty much explains everything.

---

Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Dusty Lens]

Just to note the US Department of Agriculture cited about 1.8 acres to satisfy modern dietary needs for the average Freedom Lover, so we'll call that 1.8 to make a modern chubby.

I cut that down to .5 on account of it being the future and any kind of super efficiency there might be.

Like I said, you can manipulate the figures however you want. Even if you can feed 10 people off of one acre of land you end up with structures of mind boggling mass.

If you cut those numbers down to 1000 rather than 100000000 the size becomes far more reasonable for what we're to expect from what's in front of us.

1 km² = 247 acres * 2 people = 494 people.
Now lets assume that a few of those people are fat and make it 500 people to keep everything simple.
1000 / 500 = 2 km² to feed those one hundred Zoners, assorted guests and overflow to sell to passers through, storing excess each season. Bending/etc the biodome's surface further reduces overall impact of the surface area required.

Even still that structure, and the space required to service it, is beyond gargantuan.

Maybe later I'll do some math on how many tonnes of earth would need to be moved, how many trillions of gallons of water and the space required to simply store the food etc.

[Agmen of Eladesor]

Part of that would also be what kind of diet are you supplying, too.

For example, you could grow enough for a base vegan diet on 300 square meters. (30x10). Bump that up to 700 if you want fruits and other vegetables besides taters. Rebump it to 1500 if you want meat. So actually you're feeding around 650 people with that square kilometer, and you could provide a sustenance diet for 3,000 people on that same amount. That of course presume every square centimeter of it is available for growing things.

I see the Freeport biodomes as the place that provide the local fresh vegetables, and the stuff that doesn't ship well. They're also trans-shipment places - aka giant warehouses - for the ships that DO come in with large quantities of food stuffs. If you have things boxed properly, an average semi trailer right now can hold 7 million cubic inches of cargo. (40' long, 102" high, 12' wide). 5 pounds of ground beef takes up about 225 cubic inches. So you're talking about being able to get 150,000 pounds of ground beef into a semi-trailer sized storage unit.

So the Freeports aren't just growing everything.

(And any discussion about ship scale in this game versus planets and such has probably already been had. We know things aren't to scale. GAME ... )

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Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.

[McNeo]

You see, I don't think the Corsairs Elders would've let this happen, especially at this given moment in time. They don't need to control a base, they just need a staging area - and Freeport 9 already offers them that. It also brings them Pharmaceuticals and Food from various parties. They may not come in industrial quantities, but they're better than nothing. How long would Freeport 9 survive under Corsair control? Who's gonna supply anymore? Cryer surely won't, as well as the rest of the Zoners usually visiting this place, and perhaps many other freelancers and independents. The only reason why the Corsairs would've destroyed or taken over Freeport 9, was due to the BHG staging attacks from it. But since that's not happening anymore, I don't see why they should take it. It's useless.

The Zoners are preventing anyone from staging from any of their bases, except their allies which you mentioned. Their allies which tend to include our enemies.

If the Corsairs ran Freeport 9, it would no longer be called Freeport 9, and not used as a Freeport. It would be used as an area from which we could stage within the system, and solidify our grip around our home system. Combined with this, the NAP with the BHG is not a permanent one. As soon as it becomes contrary to the strategic need for an NAP to have one, it will dissolve and we'll probably go back to shooting each other. However, this is very unlikely, since the strategic need of the NAP was the Order cutting their ties with the Corsairs, thereby getting rid of the Corsairs need to be in Delta (and their need for Yaren as a base...).

There is also the issue of the infocard that infers that a single biodome could support the Corsairs. Now I find this as ridiculous as everyone else, but if we are to suspend our belief of reality to some degree about biodomes, where is the line drawn? If we count guard systems, we have 3 biodomes and a rock with hydroponics in it. Without biodomes, we have 1 dome attached to Skiros.

So? Science and realism, or infocards and suspended disbelief? How much either side, and where is the line drawn that it doesn't favour one side over the other?