can we reduce the level to attain a faction ID down to lvl30 then? - it might confuse people when they are immune to 30 with a civilian ID - but at 31, the same ID does not do anything like that anymore. not like its hard to remember - but it "can" confuse maybe some.
No matter where you draw the line it's going to be possible to buy a faction ID and still be too small to fight other established characters. I think what you've got there makes sense; once you've picked your faction you're "in the game".
Heh, started typing this before Jinx' last message. It's going to be really hard to get some ID's by lvl 30. I've got a wee one working on Order right now, and there's no way my little rust bucket at lvl 26 is going to be able to beat Order missions in a timely fashion (if at all!).
I have to agree with Spear because even though Xoria and his Lane Hackers do the right thing, there are too many other players that don't want to.
' Wrote:can we reduce the level to attain a faction ID down to lvl30 then? - it might confuse people when they are immune to 30 with a civilian ID - but at 31, the same ID does not do anything like that anymore. not like its hard to remember - but it "can" confuse maybe some.
' Wrote:not searching for a loophole ( ! ) - but does that mean that a lvl 90 can attack a level 5 - if the level 5 has an ID other than civilian?
There can't be a loophole like that. Faction ID's aren't cheap, to afford one or even be allowed to buy one you need to do a lot of work (or begging...). So I doubt anyone will be roaming around in a level 5 Starflier with a Corsair ID unless someone gave him the ID, which is against the rules anyhow.
But perhaps faction ID's could be made even more expensive. Am I wrong about them being far more expensive only a couple of versions ago ?
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Quote:5.4 Attacking characters of level 29 and below is prohibited. Characters under level 30 cannot be attacked by players of any level, except if they have non-Civilian ID onboard, and except cases of self-defense.
I maintain this is perfect and does not need any further work.
If you want to fly a Dagger, Patriot or Hawk with a faction ID and be under level 30 good for you. But do not start limiting who can attack you..
Or should we have a rule for higher levels? How about a Cruiser cannot attack 1 VHF because the VHF cant win and so on and so on, clearly that's wrong. I do not know why some players are trying to create an un-RP restriction to make themselves immune from stronger vessels. This server is about role playing not hiding from your roles behind a level restriction!
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' Wrote:Do not be swayed by people who want to fly around under level 30 using it as an invincibility sheild.
I really hope that you aren't directing that at me, because it is a completely inaccurate and unfair characterization of my points.
Under what I proposed the under rank 30 Xeno can be dealt with by lawfuls in Defenders, Patriots, or other small ships similar to what they are flying. Those of us who are willing to go to the extra work to outfit small ships for small ship interaction should not be penalized because someone else is annoyed by us but is unwilling to do the same work to counter us.
Not fighting someone is all well and good, until you exit a jump hole or jump gate or base to find a Battlecruiser immediately shooting at your 1800 armor ship. Uber ships attacking small fighters just for kicks is poor sportsmanship and should not be encouraged by the rules. Don't we already have enough problems with juvenile players? Making one type of under rank 30 ID valid for over ranked attack and another immune to it (Civilian ID) will only solve some problems to make way for even greater new ones.
Keep the rank rule the same as it is now, but make Civilian ID's immune to all attacks. That is the best way to protect new players until they get their bearings, and it allows the rest of us to play with each other effectively.
Spear, what you are suggesting destroys server gameplay for an entire class of ships and adds nothing that can't be dealt with otherwise. The rules need to reinforce good sportsmanship, not make it irrelevant.
Not everyone wants to PvP in uber fighters all of the time. I want to play WITH people, not play AT them. People who choose to spend time in small fighters playing with other players in small fighters should be able to do so without having to be worried at every moment about a Gunboat showing up and vaporizing them. People should have the right to play with others without being harassed, and the PvP rules should back that up. If someone is annoying in their use of an under rank 30 faction ID'd ship, you still have a means of dealing with them by creating one of your own. And that, my friend, is a lot more realistic. The legal authorities don't send High Altitude bombers to deal with bank robbers, and players shouldn't be doing the equivalent either.
Your argument can also be applied to Traders who are immune to attacks from ships larger than gunboats. The only basis for that rule is to enforce good sportsmanship and allow people to play the game without being abused and harassed. What I am arguing for here is exactly the same thing. It preserves the current flexibility of gameplay, and adds a protection for the new players.
All I am asking for here is for the rules to encourage diversity of gameplay, and not encourage huge ships to abusively attack little ones.
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@Xoria: "The rules need to reinforce good sportsmanship, not make it irrelevant."
the players must reinforce good sportmanship - not the rules. the rules are there to set a limit so that a player knows "thats far enough..". while i understand your point with a battleship sitting at an exit of a base / JH - yes, it is unfair. but its not really the rules that have to deal with players that do that for "no reason" and for "fun without roleplay". i don t think we can fit every aspect of good roleplay and sportmanship into rules.
the more rules you have, the more rules you can break. you ll fear breaking the rules every time you encounter someone which will affect the roleplay quite a lot. so either say - everyone below 30 or everyone below 30 with a civi ID is just fine.
as for the lane hackers - maybe you can rewrite the faction rules so that a light fighter doesn t need a hacker ID yet - but can do stuff in a civi ID.... ( killing NPCs for example ) - then he is only a valid target when he is grouped with someone higher level. in the end, the players have their LH~ tag - so there is no misunderstanding.
I disagree with you Xoria, I have a patriot equiped to deal with your faction and other under level 30 Faction ID holders. I do not ask to be immortal to better ships! If I come across an illegal in my Patriot whether he flies a Ravens Talon, Eagle or Outcast Destroyer I will be the tiny high speed speck rapidly retreating broadcasting an emergency call for support!
Too many times I launch from Manhattan to find a level 28 Xeno killing lawful NPC's without a care in the world. Why should the over level 30 ID holders have to put up with this un-RP behaviour. I am amazed a good RP'er as yourself wants to restrict RP in the way you suggest.
I am more than happy to fight your Daggers in my Patriot, and if a VHF Hacker comes along and kills me you won't find me bursting into tears about it! If a Battleship comes along and attacks me in my VHF in my over 30 chars I have no hope of winning, I must retreat!
Or alternativley I could dive on the forum and push for a rule that limits people attacking me in anything larger than my VHF because it's not fair! :laugh:
Not a flame but I could not disagree with people hiding behind this level restriction thing more vehemently! What Igiss proposed closes a loophole that you seem hell bent on keeping open. That loop hole includes under level unlawfuls destroying RP in NY by acting un-RP and taunting the over 30's with "You cant touch me!"
I know your faction does not do this, but trust me there are plenty of players doing it at the moment. This needed dealt with as well as the under level civillians being murdered by experienced players in under level 30 chars and as far as I can see it has been.
ok i wasnt going to post on this topic but here is my views
i think the rule that igiss has come up with is perfect and at the end of the day the gamers who choose to come on the server do so by there own discussion.....
so everyone who truely knows how to RP should do so and not try to find ways around the rules.. so my point is the Admins have enough to do to maintain the server and make it work to the best of its ability which is time consuming and its there free time they give up to do that so all of us that use the server can have fun and enjoy the game..
so really they have there work to do and cant keep being side tracked by all the petty arguements about under level killing end of the day under level killing is just pointless its like killing a animal when it has no legs to run from you (just pointless)
in my opinion i would surgest that to all faction leaders to stop all this not needed arguements and descusion like this is :_
1. Allow the new pilots of that faction to fly a under level 30 fighter until he/she are firmilier with the rules and Rp within that faction
2. After the individual is up to speed with the Rp of that faction he/she has chosen to be part off... they are told to raise there level over 30 (get a better ship etc)
this way they are eligable to be attacked by that factions enemies and vise versa without any whining or worry about the rules which makes better RP
cause what is the point in attacking a enemy that cant attack back i see no point so i think my surgestion works for both lawful and unlawful factions
Or we can just argue like little babys lmao (joking)
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First, Spear I completely respect you and I understand your frustration with the Xeno. I was recently setting up a new LH clan ship and while still a rank 5 Starflier I was attacked by 2 Xeno rank 27 Hawks. It stunk.
But I don't think that what you are advocating will solve the problem. These Xeno can simply switch to civilian ID's and they will be even more immune from attacks than they were before. Then the only players who can fight them will be the ones whom they attack, and everyone else will have to just sit there and watch it.
That makes their PvP activity a bigger problem, not a smaller one.
Certainly they won't have quite so many targets anymore since they won't be able to attack the civilians, but if they do find a target no one but the target will be allowed to engage them.
Under what I am suggesting, under rank unlawfuls can still be dealt with by under rank lawfuls.
If you think rank 26 Xeno ID'd characters are annoying, the rank 26 Xeno tagged Civilians will drive you insane. And mark my words, they will do it. They will be able to camp out in front of Manhattan killing NPCs while using civilian IDs and drive you crazy and there will be nothing you can do about it.
I don't pretend that my solution is perfect, but I am still unconvinced that there is anything better that protects newbies while they get their bearings, AND preserves the ability of players to have a practical chance to fly the small ships.
In one scenario the responsible players will have a huge incentive to abandon any thought of using smaller ships, and the players who are already driving you nuts will have found an even better shield against you.
In the other scenario, Civilians get protected and unlawfuls have an incentive to fully ID and Tag their ships, while the lawfuls have a reasonable counter to it.
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