' Wrote:When a university admissions officer says "we look for diversity in applicants," what they mean is they look to create a graduating class comprising students with various strengths and weaknesses. They don't want 2000 students that are all 1/4 Asian, 1/4 Black, 1/8 Northern European, 1/8 Mediterranean, and 1/4 Persian in ethnic background with equal SAT or IB scores.
Now tie that to the discussion at hand. I still don't see how it kills diversity. It creates more weapons that are indeed different. I mean, are you complaining that they have a similar name and the same effect?
' Wrote:Do explain how a weapon has character for me. I'd like to hear that.
"the aggregate of features and traits that form the individual nature of some person or thing."
^character^
Don't get snarky with me just because I chose to answer your desperate pleas for more than just a one-line response.
edit: Also, to clarify what Ingenious was getting at...
My point was that if all the weapons have equivalent stats, then the overall diversity of guns is limited to Vampire Red, Blue and Yellow, there is no diversity of strengths and weaknesses. What He said is that when the term Diversity is used in real life by admissions officers, who do have an interest in diversity for their respective universities, they don't just look for a variety of skin colors, they look for actual, meaningful differences in personality traits, in strengths and weaknesses: In other words, they look for different stats, so that they get a diverse array of people, not just a diverse array of colors.
What you responded to me with was that you want more choices for a given faction, so that you can choose Vampire 1, AND Vampire 2 with pride; by all means, give more choices to a given faction. However, guns aren't the only choices, and some factions are supposed to have better guns. Vampires aren't as great as Krakens, but IMG has massive mining bonuses. Junkers may not be able to beat many people in a direct pissing match, but they have direct control over a great financial base. The point being, diversity isn't just about having every faction shooting a specific color, so that the rainbow looks pretty, so that IMG is shooting Vampires and Lane Hackers Hellflurries, it's about having a dynamic interplay between the strengths and weaknesses of the different factions' equipment, ships, and economic standing. IMG mines; Outcasts shoot and smuggle Cardi; Corsairs build ships. The factions are diverse enough, and the guns are truly diverse enough despite the fact that some can't do as much as others. That was planned for in the balance, wasn't it?
"Things will not calm down, Daniel Jackson. They will, in fact, calm up."
' Wrote:Now tie that to the discussion at hand. I still don't see how it kills diversity. It creates more weapons that are indeed different. I mean, are you complaining that they have a similar name and the same effect?
No. Not every faction should produce a gun with a given refire rate, type, and projectile speed. Faction guns should occupy a niche and be specific. Civilian weapons can be generic. The problem you are bringing to the table would be solved by a generic civilian weapon for every projectile type.
True, I agree that making them identical would be bleh. I really didn't mean it that way in my head. I meant make the ones that are useless have a point. Why put something in the game if you know it won't be used? Then give us a few more options by making variants of those weapons. Then remove all the low end crap that is never used by anyone.
My suggestion was in an effort to find a way to make it so people can't equip a gun to a ship that it wasn't balanced for. To find a remedy for all the whine about circle jerks and bias in regards to technology permissions. Though Gheis summed it up nicely for me.
On one hand, people will whine about lack of diversity and how it ruins the game. On the other hand, leave it as is, and we've got the people complaining about circlejerks and bias
Funny thing is, in some cases its the same people complaining in both instances. I think the old motto is damned if you do and damned if you don't. While my suggestion might not be the key to fixing the above mentioned issues, there has to be one out there and that was the entire point of this thread.
As far as I know, the way the guns are presently balanced is a regional sort of thing. Opposing factions in one area will have guns designed specifically to prey on the other faction's weakness(es). Not all guns need to be equal because not all guns are going to be matched up against one another (or at least, not under typical circumstances). Rheinland and Liberty both have plasma cannons that are more or less the same for the sake of balance in the war between them. The Corsairs' Salamanca Mk IIs and Bretonia's Ultra Sunrails are roughly comparable weapons for the same reason. Sure, we have a huge difference between Black Widows and Adv. Splitters in terms of damage per second, but when are we going to see the BPA taking on Xenos?
Probably never. And besides, class 9 hullbusters (with exceptions like the Reaver Mk II and the Fury 4) are in the 1700-2400 damage per second range, with most of the guns being between 2000 and 2200. Ultimately, the difference is negligible unless somehow both parties in a fight are hitting with every shot, which they aren't.
Another thing about guns, though: I personally think it would just be a better idea to let us use the guns we steal from wrecks and downed NPCs. We can do it with codenames, so that rules out the 'weapon incompatibility' concept.
There's nothing out of roleplay about it, really. If your guns suck and the ones you find don't suck, common sense would indicate that you should use the guns that don't suck.
"Faction pride" and "patriotism" aren't really valid responses, because there are always mercenaries, freelancers, indie pirates, and other in-RP drifters and scoundrels that probably wouldn't care whose gun they got a hold of.
Now of course, that doesn't eliminate in-RP consequences of the gun-owning faction seeking to retrieve the weapons. How said weapons could be requisitioned without admin assistance, I don't know.
Feel free to excuse my additional thoughts as a red herring, though.
A way a lone a last a loved a long the riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend of bay,
brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs.
Well I once mentioned this as one option to avoid people trying to get overpowered combination. An option that I thought was crazy and nobody would like that.
Hard to tell from this thread but I would still say that most people don't like it.
Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.
In my opinion, it is essential for a space shooter to give the players of different groups equal chances. Identical weapon stats achieve exactly that.
It also opens opportunities for players that e.g. favour fast firing guns over heavy hitters if every faction has a fast gun of their own.
Furthermore all the "I need Tech X because my own sucks" might be reduced and people might stop to look (and ask) for the best gun for them, but just stick to the equipment of their faction. All that mix-maxxing doesn't do any good, imo.
The proposal of the thread creator does that, in my opinoin.
Well in the end of it all, a weapon standard is not really needed... People who complain that their tech sucks are just awful at PVP and can't admit it. I'm awful at PVP but at least I admit it... I'd personally pick Civilian guns, which most people just toss away due to being "bad" over a mix of Drakes and Tizonas on my Gaian. Or Gaia's Angels mixed with Debs I. Why? Cause ANY gun can kill ANY player in ANY ship, as long as the pilot's good. 4.86 will see some weapon balances to make all weaponry more or less equal or at least remove the total domination some weapons have over others stat-wise.
All in all, Gheis has a point there. Right now, the only whiners are people who are sore losers or just plain bad. If you standardize the weaponry, there will be a lot of whiners about that... As was said before, variety is the spice of life, and I sure as hell wouldn't want to end up having to pick between red or green and fast or slow.
Sucks to be a weight on the wrong side of the brilliance-insanity scale.
![[Image: 50px-OSILogo.png]](http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/dannflyheit/Faction%20Icons/50px-OSILogo.png)
![[Image: sigiw102.jpg]](http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff111/rytirm/sigiw102.jpg)
