I can see where it's coming from and the reasons why, but like I said, the are rules and I don't see that rule specifically changed. It is a necessity if anything else. Once opened wide I can clearly see it being abused to such degree making the combat in game virtually impossible and turning into "catch me on fraps" kind of game, which is something I do not like myself (as I'd rather have full frame rate while in combat instead), but forced to do because of the sheer amount of re-engagers that keep ruining the play for me, faction members and everyone else around. Because it also ties to other rules, "shield running" specifically. Then it would be a nightmare to play. I'm afraid those who wish to get rid of the aforementioned rule do not understand how the game works and what else can happen in gameplay other than ambiguous "better RP". Roleplay is a not a holy banner you rush with into the battle, it is there to make the game enjoyable, but once zealous it turns into weapon of influence and leverage, I've seen that happening around enough. It's not about realism or never has been in there in the first place.
So what sense does it make? A solid one you simply cannot understand: to make sure game stays playable and not turned into complete mess. Nothing comes out of nothing. Keep in mind, it's Roleplay and Player versus Player environment, combining both, not just one and not completely dominating over the other, so a certain balance there has to be. A lot of things might make sense in roleplay but on practice harm gameplay due to being ambiguous to the other players. You can see only what fits you the best, but not everyone else. Sorry, there is no different set of rules of yours there, it's the same for everyone there, and we all follow them, so why should you be an exception to that? Or anyone else for the matter of fact? I support existing rules, I may not agree with them completely but that is my opinion and I stick where it should be - my mind. And when flying out there in space I am a citizen of Discovery, I follow the rules, and I see no reason why shouldn't you.
Treewyrm, can I agree with your sentiments and then post a page of dissention?
You are absolutely right that this is a community and we must agree rules and then stick to them.
Your post contains a lot of accepted wisdom but that doesnt make it unchallengeable. I hear chaos and never-ending being used when actually that is not necessarily the case. Ive played on other servers and none of them had this rule. Im not saying it would be without issue but I feel that they are often overstated.
PVP being drawn out should not be our primary worry on a RP server. There should be no rule to prevent normal human behaviour in given circumstances, and the current rule does this.
If it ends up with a server of pesky flies who keep losing and running away, healing and then returning then so be it. I am not sure how this differs greatly from those who currently dodge within the rules.
Some examples of it being plain silly from a RP point of view.
E.g. 1 See opening post
E.g. 2 I used to hire myself out as escort, but it is infeasible to do this with the current rule. Pirate asks for tax, my employer says no, I engage, skirmish ensues, employer hits cruise, I form up with him (engaging cruise), pirate uses CD. Now unless he shoots at me Im out of the game and my employer just has to fend for himself.
E.g. 3 Poor factions historically have always used hit and run tactics. It is all they really have, but with this rule you hit once and then have to leave the server for 4 hours.
E.g. 4 People have often used the wounded animal ploy where one engages appears to be losing and runs away drawing out the enemy to where his mates are waiting to pounce. See battle of Hastings for an example of how this has worked in the past.
All these RP options and plans are made illegal by this one rule.
Im sorry but the cost of this rule is too high
Having said this, it is a communal server with communal rules and I bow to the majority. I just wish we had a couple of weeks trying to live without the rule to see whether it really is necessary.
Quote:If it ends up with a server of pesky flies who keep losing and running away, healing and then returning then so be it. I am not sure how this differs greatly from those who currently dodge within the rules.
You want to ruin the server just to prove a point? No way I see it happening. Normal human behavior is ambiguous term, one behavior can be accepted as normal in one society and yet be offending in other, but both still human. Your point is very moot. Part three of yours is incorrect, you can switch to your other character or go with that one somewhere else, please, don't put restrictions that aren't there, such method negates your point if not completely then partially. Once again you talk about roleplay but completely miss out game mechanics and PvP mechanics. This isn't chat box with fancy animated wallpaper might I remind there.
If the cost is said rule is too high for you personally, well, as you put it yourself - you have a wide choice of servers around, which happen not to have such restrictions.
And uhm Treewyrm, you are missing the point buddy. Also, dont show players the door so quickly, you might regret loosing those players that actually do want to RP.
He's got the point exactly, if you want to change a rule, or several of them, then you do so here on the forums.
Whilst still obeying the rule, or rules, you want changed while you're on the server, until that, or those, rule(s) are changed.
Not ignore the rule(s) because you don't agree with it.
I'd rather have people think carefully before engaging then just run away until their friends arrive.
Thats the whole point of RPing your charater, you don't go solo against a capship unless you know, or are sure, you can win. At the minute people are too eager to fight each other, they should think more before engaging, but meh.
As for the comment about showing people the door, whats the point of RPing if you're not going to obey the rules that everyone else is?
You make statements such as "You want to ruin the server"... do I? Really?
My post was about my opinion. I started and ended it with a line which stressed that it is about acting as a community, and I would never dream of breaking the rule on line. However this is a forum, to discuss and debate things. To move the community onwards rather than to sit with existing dogma. My request was for a temporary waiving of the rule to see just how bad things would be. If you were proved right I would eat more humble pie than you could cook.
Again please do not take my opinions as personal slights in any way.
1) I'm not showing door to anyone, I'm not in such power nor would I do if I had it. It is a reminder there is always a choice can be made.
2) If you are inclined you can suggest rule-free period or something, but in a different thread. I'm curious if you get enough support for that. Even then I predict it being put down. I believe it is those who like to exploit the rules will be happy the most while the rest us, civilized people, will just stand off and watch anarchy raging on. I can imagine BBC.Wild_Life gets blown out of the sky just as it undocks from Manhattan, repeatedly, just for the sake of it. But hey, go ahead and try.
I just know for a fact that some people just looking loopholes all around, and there are plenty of them. Should I remind lowbie killing issue the server had a while ago? Well, you can catch my drift there.
Personally I think it's not worth risking with such huge (for this game that is) player base.
I agree 100% with Treewyrm.... and it's you aster that misses the point...
mostly because capship shields that take forever to take down (and forever to recharge) this rule can not be removed.
Quote:E.g. 2 I used to hire myself out as escort, but it is infeasible to do this with the current rule. Pirate asks for tax, my employer says no, I engage, skirmish ensues, employer hits cruise, I form up with him (engaging cruise), pirate uses CD. Now unless he shoots at me Im out of the game and my employer just has to fend for himself.
Why would you do that? At the moment your employer hits cruise you should keep your eyes on the pirate (and fire on him to prevent him fire CDs).... then wait until your employer is out of CD range... then you can hit cruise. Or better yet.. wait until the pirate hits cruise to pursue your employer... then you "chase" him and can fire on him anytime you want. He "chases" the fleeing trader... so he can fire on him as he wants also... and on you to defend himself.
Quote:E.g. 3 Poor factions historically have always used hit and run tactics. It is all they really have, but with this rule you hit once and then have to leave the server for 4 hours.
Now did you really read the rules :rtfm:
You hit once... and you should leave one system unless the player leaves the system as well.. which happens 90% of the time..(if you are not in someones home system). Also you can hit in one system.. and run into the next one (example California - Texas).. and hit there again. By the time you hit there.. California might be empty... so you can hit there... unless you die... what's the problem then?
Quote:E.g. 4 People have often used the wounded animal ploy where one engages appears to be losing and runs away drawing out the enemy to where his mates are waiting to pounce. See battle of Hastings for an example of how this has worked in the past.
This is perfectly doable if you stay on thruster and within range.
Quote:Having said this, it is a communal server with communal rules and I bow to the majority. I just wish we had a couple of weeks trying to live without the rule to see whether it really is necessary.
How long have you been here? Doesn't look like very long (now I sound like Eppy :crazy:)
The rules were more loose before... but when the player number began to grow they started to get abused... now you say that if we remove them everything will be fine... NO it won't! Seen it before.
Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.
' Wrote:1) I'm not showing door to anyone, I'm not in such power nor would I do if I had it. It is a reminder there is always a choice can be made.
2) If you are inclined you can suggest rule-free period or something, but in a different thread. I'm curious if you get enough support for that. Even then I predict it being put down. I believe it is those who like to exploit the rules will be happy the most while the rest us, civilized people, will just stand off and watch anarchy raging on. I can imagine BBC.Wild_Life gets blown out of the sky just as it undocks from Manhattan, repeatedly, just for the sake of it. But hey, go ahead and try.
I just know for a fact that some people just looking loopholes all around, and there are plenty of them. Should I remind lowbie killing issue the server had a while ago? Well, you can catch my drift there.
Personally I think it's not worth risking with such huge (for this game that is) player base.
Again I never accused you of showing the door to anyone. I believe that was Vince. Also I agree entirely with you that everone has the ultimate sanction of walking....
I think you suggesting I was proposing a "rule-free" period is vastly overstated. It was a single rule suspended for a very brief trial period that I was advocating. Your choice of words (anarcy, civilized) are emotive and not really helping in having a forum debate. However it obvious that you feel it is a foregone conclusion that the result of a trial would be negative. I am not as sure either way. I respect your greater experience.
There is a tendency with all successful things to "not rock the boat", and there are certainly benefits to that attitude. I have an opinion and will state it... but I am not a leader of men or champion of causes...
At the end of the day I participate in the forums to try to make Disco as good as it could be, not to rule broker or find loopholes.
I have probably written too much on this subject... It is a rule I would prefer to not exist but it is not a big issue for me. End of story.
You are right you and Treeewyrm have many many more months/years experience of Disco that I do and I am purely voicing my opinion of one rule. I am not advocating a new world order. Also if it was tried before and ended in Chaos then that totally answers my request for a trial period. I don't fly capships and if the rule is there to protect them then that is one side of the discussion that I had simply not considered.
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