A Rule Ammendment - a poll with a point :)

[Laowai]

Seems at this point that the vast majority of the server supports the amendment of the rule - i have pm'd Igiss and linked this thread, hopefully we will have further discussions on the issue.


Well done all - This thread has been quite constructive and essentially flameless:)

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[Armageddon]

I agree with the point only if the capital ship is used to assist in a factions embargo on a certain good. And the capship asks the trader to drop his cargo first. If he refuses then i see it perfectly in his rights to shoot down the trader. In the same way a lawful cruiser would shoot down a smuggler.

But use for mainstream pirating no.

[WilliamVitalArrow]

Trading(smugglig) became a VEEEEERY profitable business in the whole Sirius. Lots of transports are passing WITHOUT ANY FEAR through the systems. There is not much job for escorters. So "DEAR" traders, if you are afraid of Cruisers or Battleships, do not be so GREEDY and get yourself an ESCORT.

Voted "YES".

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[jimmy Patterson]

well - its much about dimensions here. - the police ( in its very original state ) deals with freighters. - the dromedary as the fastest of the freighters and the most efficient one - aswell as the rheinland freighter ( forgot the name ) which is the toughest.

thats the smugglers ships that the police has to deal with. - but that was vanilla 1.0

now we have transports, ships that were exclusive to the NPCs - and we do have warships that were exclusive for npc use, too. - the common police is not equipped nor appropriate to deal with one of those flying fortresses. - full wings of policecrafts ( like 4 ships ) are no match for even a dromedary with a lvl6 30k shield.
i think that is reason enough for the military to step in. - its the same difference like catching a smuggler in a car at the mexican border, who tries to smuggle heroin into the USA - or intercepting a heavily armed submarine in open waters filled to the rim with drugs. - the police is not equipped to take on the later one. - maybe the coast guards are ... but really, it is reason enough to call in the guys that are better equipped than the common police.

so - again ( like to many times ) smuggling and preventing smuggling is a responsibility that lays on both sides. - while i think that a battleship will not chase a smuggler - it will most certainly FIRE at a smuggler when he is stupid enough to fly into weaponrange.

a transport like a container transport or a liner is a formidable foe for a gunboat even - compared to a gunboat, utterly undergunned, but still able to take it down. - a liner can even withstand a single bomber, cause a liner isn t exactly easy to hit when its flying straight while firing its weapons ( provided its a good gunner ) - as a matter of fact... harder to take down than some huge battleships, cause on those, its harder NOT to hit them than to hit them.

so - i believe that a cruiser or a battleship can go after the big transports. - the question is ... why are those HUGE transports smuggling anyway. - from the point of view of the lawfuls, i d find it much more plausible when .... contraband ( the original, not the one made up by the factions ) was only allowed to be hauled in freighters, but the profit would be adjusted so that up to 499 cargo wielded as much profit as a big transport. - then a freighter would be a smugglers vessel and the police could take it ... without military support.

for example - make the profit span like 60.000 credits - but set the purchase value to 300.000 or so. [ so, purchase 300k, selling 360k ] - why so high? - the profit is supposed to be high, but also loosing the cargo should be a pain. ( that gets rid of those "kill me then" guys )

but as long as we allow those 220.000 armoured ( possibly Cap armoured ) transports with 100.000 shields and up to 12 guns carrying ships with up to 5000 cargohold to haul the same things - we ll NEED capships to counter them.

anyway.. i think the situation was mostly about "what a capship does when he faces a smuggler and there is simply no small ship around to stop it" rather than "if its allowed at all"

Angel of Mercy, please tell me you're joking. The Admins frequently ban people for violating the letter of the law when their actions follow its spirit. Just look in the sanctions threads, I can point out several very harsh but entirely unnecessary sanctions.

As is, several entirely stupid rules exist now, the capship-piracy restriction being one of them. Any trader in a Container Transport can murder anything short of Gunboats or the toughest bombers, and if a group of traders fly together, you need a capital ship to stop them.

Besides, if an outlaw has a capital ship, he's gonna use it. He's not going to IRP ignore a juicy cargo shipment right across his nose for any reason. A pirate won't stop pirating just because he's got a ship that can beat a Container Transport in a one-on-one. It's going to make him bolder.

As is, Traders are using the piracy limitation as an OoRP shield.

Not good RP? You sure about that? Historically, Military ships have been used to prevent contraband from reaching friendly shores. One example that immediatly springs to mind was the US Navy's African Squadron, which interdicted the trans-atlantic slave trade in the years leading up to the American Civil War. In our modern times, the Navy is still the one dealing with pirates. In the US, the Coast Guard deals with smugglers, and they're a branch of the military. Viewed in that light, it's not so OoRP for military ships to be interdicting smugglers. At least that's how I feel about it...

Back on topic, though, I voted Yes. I do believe that Outcasts and Corsairs should enjoy the same rights as lawfuls to enforce their laws. Denying them that right creates a double-standard, which really isn't fair for anyone.

i agree completly just look at today and yoy get proof all those us coast guard comersials with the freigate or the helocoptor and the sniper rifle

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kudos tommeh for sig

[Darkwolf475]

I agree to this, but up to a point. Pirating should not be allowed by ships higher than gunboat class (Pirating being defined as the taking of property or money from others). Enforcing contraband rules on the other hand should be allowed by all ships. There is a key difference between these two things.

The key difference is when enforcing the contraband rules a ship must

• Give the smuggler a chance to turn back
  
• Give ample warning before attacking
  
• NOT request money or a portion of the cargo
  
• May request the contraband be jettisioned so it can be destroyed in space
  

[Laowai]

I agree to this, but up to a point. Pirating should not be allowed by ships higher than gunboat class (Pirating being defined as the taking of property or money from others). Enforcing contraband rules on the other hand should be allowed by all ships. There is a key difference between these two things.

The key difference is when enforcing the contraband rules a ship must

• Give the smuggler a chance to turn back
  
• Give ample warning before attacking
  
• NOT request money or a portion of the cargo
  
• May request the contraband be jettisioned so it can be destroyed in space
  

Of course - and if you read the original post. I made a very clear distinction between "pirating" and policing.

Based on the results and comments submitted here its clear that around %70 of the community favours this rule change - i have pm'd Igiss with this poll and asked for it to be considered. Thanks to all for your insightful comments.

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[AdamantineFist]

The key difference is when enforcing the contraband rules a ship must

• Give the smuggler a chance to turn back
  
• Give ample warning before attacking
  
• NOT request money or a portion of the cargo
  
• May request the contraband be jettisioned so it can be destroyed in space
  

As long as these are enforced, then we can eliminate this ridiculous double standard.

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[ScornStar]

I just thought if pirates cannot pirate in capships above gunboat then why do civilians have a bomber?

There is nothing for a civilian bomber to do, it should just be called the Xeno bomber. Otherwise all pirate factions have thier own bomber no need to give this ship to civilians if pirates "wouldnt pirate because its not cost effective" to civilians if there are no applicable targets.

Yet as I said else where I could easily imagine a criuser looking at train and seeing plenty of cargo to sale on blackmarket and crew to ransom and sale to slavers.

So I dont buy the RP reasons and find the PVP reasons weak too. This rule should go away and let the folk worried about PVP problems find another server.

How ever I know Im in the minority so i follow the rules while they exist but just makeing those thoughts known and maybe get some other folks to review this rule and really think about the RP value lost when you can have traders happily wizzing by ships that should ice thier nerves with fear and send them running to the rock fields.

At least let pirate Caps "police" thier systems. In the same way police and military do thiers.

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Join our cause for a baby free world.

Harvester diplomacy

[Laowai]

I just thought if pirates cannot pirate in capships above gunboat then why do civilians have a bomber?

There is nothing for a civilian bomber to do, it should just be called the Xeno bomber. Otherwise all pirate factions have thier own bomber no need to give this ship to civilians if pirates "wouldnt pirate because its not cost effective" to civilians if there are no applicable targets.

Yet as I said else where I could easily imagine a criuser looking at train and seeing plenty of cargo to sale on blackmarket and crew to ransom and sale to slavers.

So I dont buy the RP reasons and find the PVP reasons weak too. This rule should go away and let the folk worried about PVP problems find another server.

How ever I know Im in the minority so i follow the rules while they exist but just makeing those thoughts known and maybe get some other folks to review this rule and really think about the RP value lost when you can have traders happily wizzing by ships that should ice thier nerves with fear and send them running to the rock fields.

At least let pirate Caps "police" thier systems. In the same way police and military do thiers.

Actually Scornstar - i agree with you and am on record as saying so. I personally believe pirates should be allowed to pirate in any class of capship. There is ample "real life" and Role Play justification for it, and yes - the need for a civilian bomber does seem to beg the question.

However, as indicated, i'm only trying for a minor ammendment to the rule here - so steering clear of the "pirating" issue... this is about "policing" by unlawfuls in cap ships only.

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[chopper]

Voted yes. Same thing would happen if someone smuggled Cardi trough Gamma, or Artifacts trough Alpha.
And it should.

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It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.

Can't let you bash folks in your sig Chopper-Del