revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions

[tyro]

Tyro, and now explain please why faction capital ships and people who actually role play on them ain't raising problems. Zoners no more pure traders, that's could be only in border worlds, while edge world Zoners have to be protected. Yeah, they aren't warriors, but safety is = to amount of your guns, where's no law, just don't mention Nomad stuff. But whatever, it's not issue about a ships, but a newb which using them by a wrong way.

I know that factions don't cause problems usually. I am big follower of official factions. They may have separate IDs and whatever ships they want.

But if we are talking about NPC faction and independent Zoners, like me, then I say, no warships above snubs. Against all threats we can fight in snubs.

In vanilla lore zoners are protected by diplomacy and 'protectors' - factions that are vitally interested to keep zoners safe, because of zoners usefulness.
In disco lore, because of zoners ambitions to be powerfull, to be almost a 'house' and because of the fleet of warships, the protectors became cold enemies. Nobody wants to protect zoners, nobody is interested in business with zoners, everybody barely tolerate zoners. To this led those dreams about power.

[Arioch]

Nobody wants to protect zoners, nobody is interested in business with zoners, everybody barely tolerate zoners.

Where you getting that info?

You have Order which in lore have helped eachother in the past, and in regards the Phoenix, are one of our closest allies.

GMG, which we work with for mutual trade/resources.

CR with the TAZ. We've helped the TAZ a bunch, and have helped them plenty in regards the invading Gallics.

OSI/Mollys. As leader of the Mollys, if they ever need the help, we'll respond since they are our neighbors. Hell they assisted with Goldern Coin/still assist in it.

Just some examples that just proved your point invalid. So we do have people that can protect us and do business with us. Now, before you spin it to say "Well then you don't need caps cauase you have people to protect you". Thats like saying "Well Bretonia doesn't need caps cause Liberty is next door helping (I know, bad example, but still). Just because Order is our neighbor/can assist, doesn't mean they always can. As well as Zoners are all over the place. So whil you have certain groups who can help, they can't help all over. A Molly isn't going to help OSI in Kusari for example. Doesn't make sense.

Point is, Zoner caps, for defensive purposes or what the lore behind them is, is perfectly valid. A Exploration ship (Corvo)? Perfectly fine. A Fearless Q ship (Scouting, escort in Omicrons), again, makes sense. A Carrier for jumping/hauling the smaller ships? Again, makes sense is is really the most combat worthy of them all. The Neph? Don't start. Colony ship. As it should be RP'd. It's rare, it's used to house Zoners/Zoner families/etc etc. Huge, lots of HP, and needs defensive capabilities to ward off Nomads or any other threat to the people who live there. A station has huge guns. Why? For Offensive? No. Its for when or if someone is stupid enough to attack the people aboard, it can adequately defend itself.

Just because a handful of people use them for the non-intended purposes, doesn't mean that everyone else who do RP them correctly should get punished for it.

/end rant

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[Curios]

@Drrobe,

Aha, according to this brilliant logic the player base have no say in changes to the faction they'll have to deal with on daily basis with their other characters. So let's give every faction a card blanche to do any changes they would like for them. I wonder how result will look like. Probably that's what we assume as hell.

It's other factions that have problems with how Zoners got developed not the zoner players. I think they are fine apart from some being nostalgic about the times when zoners were zoners and not omicron police central riding heavy battleships.

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[RedEclipse]

2Tyro: That's exactly what I've said earlier, in my messages. The main problem of abusing Zoner capital ships is a newbies, which have no control. A simple procedure of SRP for Zoner ships to indies - to make sure owner won't went to a "engaging all red", and/or restrict them to official factions, which guaranteed won't let abuse zoner caps.

The thing is, it's a real solution - but devs/admins don't like it(activity above all RP, if they want to lolwut, let them be). But meantime it'll be great recovery for Zoner faction, and idiocy won't repeat again/making playing disco more enjoyable. Thus, more activity, which doesn't hurt roleplay.

But what do we have here? An attempt to turn Zoners into IND alike(or nerf), which satisfies only who not fly as Zoners.

2curious, your brilliant idea of removing zoner ID/IFF won't find much support, be sure. But you're still saying about "problem with zoner caps", and solution I've wrote above.

[Arioch]

Heh, I agree with what you're saying Curios.

Where I am coming from though, is that if Devs want to make a change to a faction because others QQ about them, due to a handful of lolwuts, they should first address the official factions whom the change would concern, before opening it up to the people who would rather see the faction burn than continue on like it is. (A harsh extreme, but you catch my drift)

I also agree that there shouldn't be a "Omicron police riding heavy battleships" (Please see above of the view of Zoners due to lolwuts)

I guess my whole thing is, if devs want to make a change to a faction, chat with the official factions who play them and brainstorm.

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[Lythrilux]

Maybe we should just nerf the independent zoner ID. Perhaps if we put tougher and tighter restrictions in place for indies all the lolwuttery might be avoided.

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[Arioch]

Real quick -

I was chatting with Thyr'zul about this... No matter what, there will be QQ. Whether from Zoner side, or non-Zoner side. So, why make a change that will still result in QQ?

And seriously, Devs/Jinx. Why can't you just make it so Zoner caps are restricted to the Officials/via SRP. Thus it shows their "rarity" and are given to those who can RP them, not use them as PVP/Offensive ship? Keepers/K'Hara do it. The HF did it. So why not Zoners?

Seriously, a question for Devs/Jinx ONLY: Give me a good reason why NOT to do that?

EDIT: Ninja'd by Lyth

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[RedEclipse]

Was suggested by me, admins/devs do not support it. At least, it was.

[Spud]

Just nerf cap ship strength and transport cargo size, end of story.

You can even lift docking restrictions in house space if you do that.

I'd love to see one of those biodome-ships in New York, they bring the exotic flair of travelers from afar. Make their ships horrible for fighting purposes or powertrading so they arent used for that.

Simple no?

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User was banned for: Karlotta
Time left: (Permanent)

[djordje_petrovic]

Drobe the drunkard Mcmoderator put good reasons describeing zoner cap roles.

However there is one thins in RP toward zoners that irritates me and thats

1. umm, Give us dock or we pew
2. umm, No Dock for our enemies or we pew

And those same who say that like to dock on npc zoner bases ...

That kind of RP is idiotic , nothing less. Against such type of poor exploited RP , zoners need protection. That is i suppose only argument that all stays as it was. But i am for changes nevtherless, just wanted to note this RP behaviour toward zoners.

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