Tranports vs Caps

[Shryke]

Smugglers have little to fear. It's the pirates in transports. If they are fair game for caps, so should traders be ($0.02).

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[Harcourt.Fenton.Mudd]

Smugglers have little to fear. It's the pirates in transports. If they are fair game for caps, so should traders be ($0.02).

I've allready posted my thoughts back on page1 but I'll add to them. (basicly, when it comes to lawful caps, go back to .84 'if theres a RP reason for it' and setup deffinite ZoIs based on RP for pirate caps to pirate in.)

Add a SRP lite for ALL caps (other than GBs).

Grandfather in all currently existing caps.

From there, during one of the updates (or .86 prehaps) remove the power cores from all caps at the shipyard.

That means you cant undock.

Have a forum section simular to the sanc report one, with a basic questionare for prospective cap purchasers.

Basicly it will give them basic questions on the rules and generaly ensure that they understand the basics, can write passable english (important for RPing on the server) and generaly show a little sense. This will NOT be like a tech request to a faction, instead it will be a basic 'lolwut test'.

Prehaps, to make things easier on the admins, allow each offical faction to have 2ish people get access to assist with clearing the backlog of cap requests.

Someone abuses caps too seriously, or otherwise shows themself unfit to command one ? They loose access to caps, for a certain period of time.

Possibly cannon could code up something that takes a list of IPs denied cap access again, and caps, and pings anyone that has one they shouldnt.

How would this help with regards to the rules ?

Less idiots. A lot of the so called pr oblems with caps are that they can instakill most anything smaller IF THEY CATCH IT SLEEPING OR BY SUPRISE. So they go up to some random trader, usualy saying nothing, and pull the trigger.

Most cap drivers dont do that, and it seems odd that the good players get penalized when a bomber pilot bent on abuse could kill most ships as well, just may take a moment longer, but has no such restrictions on his ship.

Now, for pirates, just add sensable ZoIs for piracy in a cruiser. Places were they are fighting eachother w/o lawful presence and/or in open war with a lawful house.

Im pretty sure that almost all such systems have qutie a few astroid fields as well, great for shaking off that chasing cap ship.

Do those two things, and things become a tad more fair.

That said, it'll also lead to a massive increase in pirate cruisers, but oh well, thats what bombers are for.

As mentioned before, raise transport speed to 160-170, and we are clear.

If such fat ships like cruisers is allowed to shoot the traders, traders should be able to thrust away. Slowly, thrusting away, but still.
The question is the balance. Bye the way, i voted: "Yes"

The problem however is that some of the lighter cruisers may take a tad longer to kill an evasive thrusting trader than, say, a bretonian or rhinland heavy cruiser, due to fewer guns and weaker power plants (and main guns being all but useless if they have much range and are evading)

Prehaps make the light cruisers (Liberty siege cruiser, Kusari Cruiser, any others I've forgotten) able to thrust faster as well (between the heavier cruisers and transports speed wise.)

Then theres battlecruisers. Only really applies to Liberty, but they utterly lack a thruster (which is odd, since the BHG BC can go at regular cruiser speeds. Odd that the BHG has a better ship that the oldest house)

Unlawfuls
[insert random lolwut name here] : HAI
[insert random lolwut name here] : U SEE, IMMA A bomber
[insert random lolwut name here] : PAY ME 5MIL OR I KILL YOU NAU

So by your logic, bombers should also be restricted, as a lone trader has similarly low odds to survive against one ?

PEOPLE will be idiots. It doesnt matter what ship they are in.

And a simple requirement for the lawful cap to TRY to stop the smuggler before killing him would actualy stop the lawful lolwuts, and as for the unlawful lolwuts........

Anyone remember the whole loldente spamage crisis last year ? It doesnt matter the ship, if someone is unable to behave properly, just wants to grief other players, or otehrwise is unable to behave properly fdor disco, then it doesnt matter what ship they are on, tehy WILL find a way to misbehave.

Restricting based on idiocy only accomplishes treating everyone like idiots. You make better restrictions and rules, someone else makes a better idiot.

Zapp, really?

Ok, sure, why not. Lets allow all the capships to pirate. But let's take them away from the people at 2nd rule break with the said ship?
I really doubt that hessians spend their hard built cruisers on piracy and camping trade lanes. I also find it weird that whit piracies happening so easily at the moment (1 lone fighter or bomber pirating), you would want to give more firepower to the pirates.

I don't see that making traders use escorts really.
I wouldn't mind having a cruiser pirate in a group. Every faction can set up a blockade some where and cruiser can be a part of it. But a lone cruiser pirating is a pretty messed up thing.

I agree with the bolded part.

Also, let each pirate faction or leadership council submit a proposed ZoI for their caps to be able to pirate in (if at all), and hold each groups proposed list up to public scrutiny.

Prehaps also add in additonal requirements, such as no trade lanes and/or lawful presence, unless that specific pirate group is in OPEN conflct with the lawfuls there.

*Without reading all the replies*

In my eyes, in times of war or sheer piracy, transports very rarely even have a chance against big ships. In times of war here on Earth, nations send large ships more specifically battle cruisers and in same case carriers I think, to take out the merchant navy.

In Freelancer terms, transports are super powered when they're only task is to transport freight, I can't strongly see them being able to truly fend of larger vessels, or groups of ships.

Yes its a game, but this isn't Truckers. This is space, space is dangerous.

If prices of the stock market shot up, take this rule out so piracy will be more feared, but the rewards for trading are much higher. That may, again, may solve a lot of headaches.

The problem is there is a HEAVY bias AGAINST capital ships. Caps are, currently, way too weak. (execpt against themselves).

I'd say no. If this rule was removed, you can say goodbye to corsair vs outcast. All the caps that sit at Malta and Gamma would move to Liberty to kill rhinos. Then you've got a mass of outcast, corsair, civilian, and liberty lawfuls fighting 24/7 in New York. I don't know about you but Liberty is already crowded.

That allreay would violate teh rules, actualy, 'sairs are not allowed in NY. IIRC there was a change proposed by the OC leadership to also get the OD Guard to deny caps access to NY within the rules as well.

And BEFORE this rule went into effect (caps unable to kill transports) what you described (EVERYONE in NY to fight) was how disco was. It didnt change when the rule was added, which would imply lolwuts will be lolwuts, and addign rules on the rest of us is pointless.

If they abuse it, then decide (as admins) theyre not able to behave in that ship, and delete it.

They get enuf caps deleted out from under them (and banks too, if they keep remaking caps) they may get the picture.

yes.. ONLY for Official factions!!! no random newbs, people under careful watch.... it will make people join the factions more often too!

lawful officals can allready pew transports in caps.


And why not make joining a faction required to get an ID while you're at it ?

" I'd say no. If this rule was removed, you can say goodbye to corsair vs outcast. All the caps that sit at Malta and Gamma would move to Liberty to kill rhinos." ( Death.Running.Verminator )

as far as i know - caps can do that, since freighters are not transports - and a freighter that is being shot down by a battleship REALLY deserves it - i mean... come on... you can thrust almost twice as fast, you re very small to easily dodge the heavy cannons ( and if you stick around to be shot down by solaris PD, the mistake is yours anyway )

Actualy Jinx, feighters got added to the rule a while back, it was a rather quiet change and I only found out about it cause an admin mentiond it to me ingame

for one - players KNOW that they ought not travel the most populated traffic knots when their hold is full of contraband - yet they do it ... AND they get upset when they re caught and brought to justice. ( getting upset as a player, not a character that is )

on the other hand - most traderoutes AND smuggling routes are calculated in a way that they have to use those "shotest" ways in order to really be profitable. - yes, you can take a course 30k above or below the ecliptic - but then, your routelength increases by like 10 minutes or so - which brings the whole route down to be not much more profitable than a legal traderoute.
in my opinion, a smuggler that is caught by a lawful has done something wrong, no matter what kind of ship the lawful is in. - even if the smuggler used a hidden route ... he has plenty of time to react to a threat that appears 10k away from him. ( which hardly ever happens, if you really take the time to take a detour )

and i can only just say again - that only in 4.85.... lawfuls are not allowed to attack unlawful transports in capital ships anymore. - before 4.85 ... it was allowed, and caused very little trouble at all ( for those that predict the end of the days if that happens )

The reason the rules were changed were not for fairness or balance, but because people flying 5k's thru guard systems and tired of getting blown up cried the loudest.

As soon as the rule change was made ? I saw quite a few smugglers laugh at the LPI liberator patrols, ignore the LN caps, and call in LR Dessies to deal with GBs..

Yes despite all that, they are protected under the rules.

In one case, a smuggler that had speed docked, continued to ignore RP and ignore the LPI, was sitting outside of Manhattan on PUBLIC comms attempting to hire a LR dessie to deal with the lawfuls.

a LN indie cruiser, due to the massive RP reason to do so, pew's said smuggler, and get sanc'd.


Prehaps we SHOULD rename this discoveryPvP 24/7, and save the hassle of RP.

[Harcourt.Fenton.Mudd]

double post delete

[Elven]

Just tell me - why do you want to shoot transports in caps that badly?
What will it give you? How'd it improve RP on server?

And why can't you shoot Pirate Transport shooting your IMG fellow? You're that afraid to get sanction? Personally I'm not, if I think I'm right.

[Thurgret]

'Capital ships may only attack transports when within 10k of a friendly base'? Something like that as a sort of compromise?

[kuth]

I voted no.

inRP all captial ship should have a fighter/bomber screen. This fighter/bomber screen would take care of smugglers/the actual act of pirating for the captial ship.

Removing the rule benefits the server in no way and only serves to open up a can of worms.

Does it suck that your captial ship can't pew pew a smuggler? Sure, but why is your capital out there all alone? Does it suck your pirate cruiser can't pirate that transpor full of gold? sure, but why is your captial out there all alone?

So. I say this to traders, lawful catpial ship pilotes, and pirates that have captials. Get escorts.

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Lurker

[Corsair]

I would modify the rule to allow fighters and bombers to attack the transport while the capital ship is present. The idea being that the fighters and bombers operate off the capital vessel. Allowing the capital vessel to merely be present, not firing, would be a massive headache cured and atmosphere given.

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[Harcourt.Fenton.Mudd]

'Capital ships may only attack transports when within 10k of a friendly base'? Something like that as a sort of compromise?

Compleatly fair. Or set non-overlaping ZoIs for were pirate/lawful caps can both pew traders (I made another thread for that particular idea).

If there were a 10k limit, then for the lawfuls, I'd say count trade lanes in that 10k, as that'd be a logical place for them to sometimes encounter situations on.

And have the same clause as in the guard ID were if the fight STARTS somewere allowed, but MOVES outside, it's still legit under the rules.

Prehaps.....
lawfuls within 10k of a lawful and/or allied base/lane/gate.
Unlawfuls, within 10k of an unlawful base, or a jumphole.

JHs ARE dangerous for traders afterall.
TLs ARE dangerous for pirates afterall

And on top of that, have comprehenseve and RP logical ZoIs for each ID that allows caps and were that specific cap can engage (mostly for pirates, a hessian cruiser shouldnt be able to go pirate JHs in another house, past border worlds as one example.)


Elven, to answer your question I'll quote myself from the other thread you asked it in.

Actualy, I dont have an IMG char currently.

And Im not either, infact back in early .85 I once DID get a sanc for propper RP for just that, slave liner that had just ignored a group of LPI Libbies and speed docked/sold at manhat was sitting infront of the lane to WP and on public comms attempting to hire a LR dessie that was about 12k out to come attack us.

The thread ended up getting locked when quite a few LPI that were there pointed out how it was BS and what not.

[Shryke]

Yeah Fenton that's the idea.. make the rules more complicated and give the admins more work.

/sarcasm

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