If you would simply attempt to fail LPI missions to fix your tag, we won't fine you a thing. We are not on a witchhunt here, we are attempting to get people motivated to actually roleplay their tags and to act like a RL military would.
You can build voodoo dolls of me and stick pins in them if you want. You can start a Liberty flag burning event, and I'd support it, since it would be an interesting RP idea. The idea of protests is a good one and I'd like to see large scale events (protests, military parades, vice sweeps) of a more civil sort implemented in Disco.
If you want to complain about the fines, talk to people who have the final say. I could give you some of their Skypes if you want. They all read and approved it. If you've got a beef with me, you've got a beef with what they read and approved.
Liberty means freedom. What exactly in the penal code limits freedom? Freedom to use Police IFFs? Freedom to commit identity theft? Freedom to steal, freedom to murder, freedom to smuggle contraband?
Can you explain what freedoms are actually violated by this code, and suggest alternatives that do not violate said freedoms?
As for the United States.. there, you get YEARS IN JAIL for these sorts of crimes, and fines that take months, if not YEARS to recoup. In all honesty, Liberty looks like an anarchist paradise in comparison.
the point is - no one will pay them if they are that high. they are beyond being an incentive to RP. no matter how realistic such a fine is for someone using a liberty capship or whatever - he will not pay 150.000.000 credits, prolly not even 10.000.000
mind you - if its utterly against roleplay - he could be reported and put into bastille for a few hours / days. but thats ... that; - and not a roleplay fine ( player - player fine as opposed to player - admin fine )
fines of that amount ARE metagaming. - as stated before, it is highly unrealistic that a single player owns / buys a dreadnaught all on his own. and it is... .. and is aswell unrealistic that one player pays a fine of 150 millions. - about as funny as giving people a 190 years detention in jail.
make fines so that they are a "reminder". they must be high enough to hurt a bit and makes the other person "think" about where he is wrong - but not too high that he has to spend hours ooRP trading to pay them ( but .. he ll just leave and hang out somewhere else but liberty then )
' Wrote:As for the United States.. there, you get YEARS IN JAIL for these sorts of crimes, and fines that take months, if not YEARS to recoup. In all honesty, Liberty looks like an anarchist paradise in comparison.
Good point. The USA is the most incarcerated nation in the world having 25% of the world's total incarcerated population despite having only 5% of the total global population... I guess we could call that... tough Liberty?
Plus, Liberty's economy is largely based on prison labour. And after all, the official name of North Korea is the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea".
There's an element of psychological RP in here, as well. Criminals run, because they don't want to spend years in jail. Same thing with high priced lawyers, plea bargains and the like. Many Liberty citizens oppose their governments policies, which generates ammo for the Lane Hackers and other groups. This is good, because it actually motivates people to roleplay that sort of thing. Sure, some of it can turn into OORP disputes, but sometimes it can also lead to interesting ideas, like that protest event.
I roleplay a military character. A member of the brass, and a leader. The sort of people who are stereotyped in the media in characters like Gunnery Sergeant Hartman (although he wasn't high ranking, he certainly was ruthless) of Full Metal Jacket, the sort of people the average soldiers complain about. If people are complaining my character is a ruthless hard nosed sort, then I'm doing my job. The military is about discipline, cohesion, and order towards a goal. The RM RPs this perfectly. This isn't a matter of politics here. Any military in the world would be extremely harsh by modern standards, be it America or Saudi Arabia's.
The brass are the sort of people the soldiers complain about off the record in bars. If that's the effect, then I'm doing RP well, perhaps too well. There can be conflicts, but at least it's motivating people to roleplay what they wouldn't otherwise.
Quote:What exactly in the penal code limits freedom?
Stop goose-stepping for a minute and I'll explain it to you.
Quote:Freedom to use Police IFFs?
You obviously don't understand what you're saying. New characters start with a reputation that makes gaining an LPI IFF incredibly easy -- just by killing a few Xenos or Liberty Rogues in self-defense. Almost all new characters gain an LPI IFF, unless the player takes steps to prevent that. An LPI IFF just means that the LPI is the faction that likes your character the most. Having an LPI IFF doesn't make you a member of the LPI -- that's the purpose of the LPI ID. The modern day American equivalent of an LPI IFF is a sticker that any American citizen (or even illegal immigrant) can buy from their police association or sheriff's department that states the purchaser is a supporter of said organization and lists the year of purchase. I see those stickers everyday on privately-owned cars and other vehicles. The American equivalent of an LPI ID would be a badge for a local police department, sheriff's department, state police or federal agent (FBI, DEA, et al.).
Quote:Freedom to commit identity theft?
Having an LPI IFF isn't identity theft. If you apply that to having an LPI ID without being a member of the LPI player group/faction, then you might have a point.
Quote:Freedom to steal, freedom to murder, freedom to smuggle contraband?
I see your feverish mind has started the Witch-hunt again.:crazy:
Quote:Can you explain what freedoms are actually violated by this code, and suggest alternatives that do not violate said freedoms?
I've already done that above with one example.
Quote:As for the United States.. there, you get YEARS IN JAIL for these sorts of crimes, and fines that take months, if not YEARS to recoup. In all honesty, Liberty looks like an anarchist paradise in comparison.
The last time I checked, joining the local police association (equivalent to gaining an LPI IFF) didn't require "YEARS IN JAIL." You need to chill out. Maybe you should sample some of the synthetic marijuana that must be stockpiled in the LPI evidence room.
[quote name='Praetyre' date='Feb 13 2008, 11:46 PM' post='183957']
Right ho.. the idea that the military freely sells their ships is, in my opinion, ridiculous. No military in the world sells submarines to civilians, and logically, the Liberty Navy doesn't sell Gunboats or goodness-knows-what-else to anyone with a credit card who isn't blatantly hostile. It's a game mechanic, like non-High Command people being able to use the Alaska jump gate. As some have pointed out, if you can't use the Magellan one, how on Manhattan are you going to get through the Alaska one?
Maybe not civilians, but arms manufacturers are in business to make money and some of the ways they do that are more dubious than others, let us not forget that BAE systems were found to be guilty of attempting to sell wepons to iraq during the first gulf war (the supergun affair), as i remember it there was even a goverment minister involved, and this is happening while britain is engaged in armed conflict with iraq. Additionally as a civilian u can procure all sorts of ex military equipment, i belive Jeremy Clarkson has a RAF Lightning sitting on his frount lawn at this very moment.
Hold on a minute, I'm still back at the whole LPI group thing. Does this all mean that IF I have an LPI tag and ID, I have to be a part of some obscure player group I've never heard of? And also, my LSF char is not a part of any group either, he's just an LSF agent who does his job and protects the innocent. For example: there was a Corsair who wanted 500k from a lvl 5 starflea pilot (I know that's OOC info, but still). Said Corsair was about to fire. I popped out of a tradelane, and blew him away. I gave fair warning, and then proceeded to lethal force because he did not back down. Had he done so, I would have held fire and let him leave the system after paying a fine.
I try to play by the rules at all times, though my LSF ship that I'm not using right now is mounting some Outcast cannons I'm in the process of replacing. (hence not using it)
/rant
I see giving fines to indie lawfuls is somewhat absurd, if they do their jobs. Yes, we should fine blatant OORP tags/ID, but should leave the indies alone. (Viking, next time keep out of said Whale incident)
That's my stance. Flame me if you will, but leave off on the tar and feathers this time.:P
Zealot Wrote:Just go play the game and have fun dammit.
Treewyrm Wrote:all in all the conclusion is that disco doesn't need antagonist factions, it doesn't need phantoms, it doesn't need nomads, it doesn't need coalition and it doesn't need many other things, no AIs, the game is hijacked by morons to confuse the game with their dickwaving generic competition games mixed up with troll-of-the-day.
Feverish mind? Goose stepping? Witch hunt? Accusing me of voodoo practitioning?
Godwin's Law. Enough said.
You know, the RM keeps independents in check. No one has ever, to my knowledge, complained about that. Once, Admiral Hiltraud ordered a RM tagged and IDed Rheinland battleship out of orbit of New Berlin.
No one complains when RM keeps independents in check. No one complains when RM acts like a military. Liberty doesn't order people to report for inspection. No one complains when the RM imposes fines, some of which are much greater than ours. No one complains about RM much at all. Yet when Liberty tries to bring in some semblance of law and order, everyone is out on a real jihad against us.
People complain the independents are running wild and too zealously enforcing the fines, then when we reign then in, they still call us Nazis. Folks, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
' Wrote:Feverish mind? Goose stepping? Witch hunt? Accusing me of voodoo practitioning?
You know, the RM keeps independents in check. No one has ever, to my knowledge, complained about that. Once, Admiral Hiltraud ordered a RM tagged and IDed Rheinland battleship out of orbit of New Berlin.
People complain the independents are running wild and too zealously enforcing the fines, then when we reign then in, they still call us Nazis. Folks, you can't have your cake and eat it too.
Couldn't agree more. This game should be called Freewhiner, or at least in Liberty.
![[Image: protectgearsigshadow.png]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v681/Reise/protectgearsigshadow.png)
![[Image: verloren.png]](http://miniprofile.xfire.com/bg/sf/type/2/verloren.png)
![[Image: Banner-Final.gif]](http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm70/Praetyre/Banner-Final.gif)
![[Image: just_a_signature_by_sjrarj-d63yjsx.png]](https://img00.deviantart.net/ca73/i/2013/123/e/a/just_a_signature_by_sjrarj-d63yjsx.png)
