Gentle Reminder

[Garrett Jax]

The latter is what this reminder is about.

My gripe is that there are also players out there who feel like they're being targeted when the "offender" isn't even aware of it. I remember being told by an ex-Admin a year or so ago that a player who he was in a faction with felt that I was personally constantly targeting them. In reality I was just actively flying GRN| ships on a daily basis and the "targeted player" had several hostile-to-GRN characters he/she was frequently logging. I literally didn't even know the characters I was shooting were flown by the same player.

Now imagine the above happened after this "warning".

My most commonly flown characters have always been "antagonists" of some form: Reavers, GRN, Nomads, The Wild. Being considered a "shadowlogger" (have to point out that's a pretty dank word) just because people are commonly shot at by my characters would be a bit unfortunate.

I believe I was the Admin mentioned in the above quote. Instead of assuming shadowlogging, I discussed the player's concerns with Haste and I came to the determination that there was no intention on the part of Haste to grieve that specific player. I'm certain the current Admins will also communicate with all parties involved, during any future investigations, in order to get a clear picture of the matter, before rendering judgement.

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[Durandal]

I don't see why this "reminder" is needed at all.

I'm talking from my experience of being a member of, and eventually leading a faction that was often "bullied" by people logging whenever you did, to get your blue message as a bounty. It had been going on for ages, and I was close to quitting Discovery altogether (and I nearly did twice).

I've asked the admins for support, but they weren't breaking any rules and nothing could be done rule-wise.
I've asked the community for support, but the replies were mostly "get good".

What made that issue die off ultimately?

We did get better and improve PvP-wise. We recruited players who were willing to help fend the "bullying" players away. We weren't easy blues anymore. We listened to feedback and improved our faction, eliminating the issues most found unlikeable. The whole thing came to a stop very rapidly.

I already know from what people this is coming from based on who's defending the "warning". I was already insulted many, many, many times for politely speaking my point of view and suggesting change, That's how the people behind it act, and there's really little reason to actually say anything that contradicts their point of view.

The community should evolve around them, not they around the community.

Gonna go ahead and second Ramke on this one. Its a pixelshooter in space and there will always be people who don't like each other. You can't change that, and trying to involve yourself in it instead of letting it sort itself out is an awful idea.

[Arioch]

On one hand I agree, on the other "sorting itself out" has resulted in players no longer playing the game. Say what you will that they need to have a thicker skin, etc, but if someone is constantly logging and killing you at random times/places as soon as you log in or go to another system, then that no longer is fun and reduces your joy of playing. That, in my mind, is worthy of looking at and falls under trolling/harassing.

Obviously there will be people with feuds, and for the most part we won't/don't want to step in. But when it's as bad as we've seen, then yeah I think it's justified for Admins to step in when someone is doing the above.

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[Yber]

Different people keep coming up with different meanings for a word that simply has been made up.

Stalking a certain player ingame is bad, don't do it. I feel like that message would be much better than the one we've been given.

[Magnifique]

My gripe is that there are also players out there who feel like they're being targeted when the "offender" isn't even aware of it. I remember being told by an ex-Admin a year or so ago that a player who he was in a faction with felt that I was personally constantly targeting them.

I'm not saying you're worse than other people, but there is a certain play style which seems to be considered normal to some, very offensive to others, while yet other people tolerate it for certain individuals but find if extremely offensive when others do the same.

Well there are a few questions that people can ask themselves, to become more aware of if their behavior may be viewed by others as much less exemplary than they may think:

Do you tend to move through systems blowing up targets of opportunity, effectively purging them of your enemies, not knowing, and not carrying, if you blow up the same player up more than once?

Do you generally travel with skilled people in your group, and blow up mainly people who are less skilled than you?

Do you tend to mainly fight against people who didn't really want to fight with you on the terms that you created?

Does your character tend to talk a lot about how people with a far lower kill/death ratio than himself don't fight as fair and as bravely as he does?

Do your enemies generally have extremely slim chances of survival in the fights that you partake in, but you think that's still ok and fair, as long as it's because of your superior skill, and not because of your superior numbers or larger ship classes.

Do you Does "your character" generally make sure that his enemy is dead, intimidated, and humiliated after you he or she is done with the "RP interaction"?

Does "your character" often say things alluding to other characters inferiority in PvP skill, and their unwillingness to "fight like a man" when facing certain death from a far more skilled pilot, which hardly comes across as realistic RP, but that's just the way "your character" is for some obscure IRP reason?

Do the people you fly with insult your enemy and prevent him from escaping, while your character is giving the enemy the "fair duel" that he didn't want because he's sure to die in it?

If you your characters weren't successful in doing the above to another player character on one day or in one system, do they try even harder to do it to the same enemy character on the next day, or in the next system, to "teach him a lesson"?

For example: If one of your enemies didn't fight as bravely as you would have wished for, do you get 4 friends and go kill him 5 vs 1 in front of his capital planet the next day?

Do you tend to do any or all of the above several times per day or per week, in the same region of space, which will necessarily make you meet the same people repeatedly?

Do you think it really matters to the person you do it to if you do it only to him or you do the same to 20 other people too?

Again... not saying you're the only one doing this, or that all of it is "GIT OF MA BEAUTIFUL SERVER" kind of evil. But there is some controversy, a bit of hypocrisy, reluctance to admit stuff, and double standards when it comes to things like this.

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User was banned for: Karlotta alt
Time left: (Permanent)

[Mímir]

Aren't you just setting yourselves up for disaster with this approach? One more vague rule hinging on totally subjective evaluation leaves too much room for admin judgement (or lack thereof). Haste pointed it out pretty well, in online games, and on the internet in general, everybody feels like a victim of someone else's poor behaviour. A guy like Haste can explain his actions and motives and rely on goodwill to get a fair treatment, but what about guys like Tutashkia and other 'great evils'? My bet is they would be hammered instantly by this vague 'rule'.

Moreover when I stopped playing there wasn't a single pvp'er on the admin team (unlike in earlier times), so the team was totally oblivious to half the game and the tonnes of BS pvp'ers have to endure every time they log. It led to some really terrible decisions, all full of good intent but I'll informed. Maybe that's changed, but I doubt it. Things were already on a slippery slope when I stopped, where PVP'ers had become antiheroes even though they are the ones fuelling this place and keeping it alive since the beginning of Disco. If people pvp'ed a lot more (not logging in great ganks, but actually picking up the challenge and improving instead of feeling like victims), they'd have a more nuanced view on the topic.

But of course it's easier and less time-consuming to just complain here, rather than go to conn and get good if not-dying matters that much.

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[Vendetta]

Words

Nice 'Get good scrub' mentality.

Except you're wrong about one thing - PvP isn't what holds this place together. There's tonnes of people who fly daily without shooting or getting shot at, and they still enjoy themselves. This is a Roleplay community.

If PvP is really why people play, there would be significantly more people in conn all the time.

Even so, the few people I know as PvPers that I talk to still enjoy roleplay, and don't log solely for the sake of shooting things.

As for the topic being subjective? You're almost right in that case. While some people whine about being targeted, there are cases where solid evidence is provided and action is taken. When the person conducting the griefing openly admits they're doing it on purpose, then that's solid enough evidence, don't you think? Otherwise, people will most likely use this term extremely liberally in the hopes of getting someone they dislike banned, or get someone in trouble because an interaction didn't go their way.

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Currently unable to consistently be present in the Community due to life constraints.

Youtube

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[sasapinjic]

Just wondering , what is called if i look in list of players , see where activity is , i log in to kill somebody , i fail , get killed , then i log in in different part of space and get killed again ?
"Providing free blues to other players service" , or "incompetent shadow logging" ?

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Spoiler

welcome to Loberty
^ where you can get Freelancer ISO , in emergency

These two spoilers were too big so now they're both one ~Champ

[ASimpleMan]

So what I do is whenever I see a pirate or someone who is hostile to the BAF (Im BAF|) I go to their location to interact. There is always a TON and I mean TON on RP before we engage, sometimes not engaging at all. The RP for me is personally the main thing that I enjoy. So is that shadowlogging? Coming in to take out a pirate?

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Cuttingham's Bio : Cuttingham's Logs

[freelancer knux]

So what I do is whenever I see a pirate or someone who is hostile to the BAF (Im BAF|) I go to their location to interact. There is always a TON and I mean TON on RP before we engage, sometimes not engaging at all. The RP for me is personally the main thing that I enjoy. So is that shadowlogging? Coming in to take out a pirate?

No that is fine, What you are doing is the standard here as the population gets quite low at times.

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I'm back baby