(07-28-2019, 08:15 PM)Pillow Wrote: Luckily Vex isn't here to ruin everything so let's revive this thing. Bretonia-Gallia war is ending soon, Kusari and Rheinland isn't wanted, Kusari-Gallia begins again. Dust off your Kusari ships and fight Lybxes like the good old days.
Oh and Rheinland turns to Liberty because Liberty must be at war at all times. No question. Newbies need a war to go "Wow!" at. I remember being in love with watching Military and Navy players dish it out in Texas.
Yep.
Many thrown away opportunities, keeping the wars separate. Kusari seems more likely to be alienated by Bretonia and Rheinland, and when the Rebublic was still its government they were pretty open to dealing with Gallia. The obvious choice long ago would have beeen to have Kusari join Gallia's side, and the rest of the houses band together for a major trans-sirius war.
It seems like wars are chosen at random based on what hasnt been tried yet.
So the real question is, will we ever find out how the Gallia war is supposed to end? It seems its been dragged out way longer than was planned. 4.91 dropped in December of last year and made it seem the end was imminent. Here we are, 8 months later, many fixed events, no end though. Its hard to end a war in favor of one side when it doesn't make sense. All this work going into the mod just around avoiding ending it in Bretonia's favor and to avoid Gallia being pushed back.
All these events were not necessary. In the end if the result is fixed, might as well lay it out. The summer is being wasted keeping the big change from coming when we could be moving on.
Having said that, I'm all for taking this to a full Sirius wide war for a short time to justify a quick pushback. Otherwise, the longer the war is dragged out, the less it makes sense. Because the fixed storyline taking precedent over anything else, players are silently locked from really moving forward or taking free actions for fear it clashes with a plan only the devs see and know.
Like, I know the devs want to keep people guessing and keep some surprises, but... at this point it also comes across as dangling a carrot in front of a horse to keep it walking. Fixed stories dont need to go on for 6-7 years anymore.
Last point: If you are bored, start posting in the Mod General Discussions forum that you want more stuff to do, and I mean, more sandbox activities, more in-game systems (not star systems) that allow players to generate, things that other players would want to stop or cash in on. Scidata was a great example, but so few spots, and interest seems to have dropped. On top of ores, gases, scraps, scidata, we should be farming pilots for faction rewards, things that let you have effects on the environment so people will not get bored of it.
Honestly at this point people seem to want Kusari vs Liberty Instead. So do that. You don't ask the community on stuff like how to balance snubs or caps, yeah? That makes no sense.
You do ask the community on what type of activity they want. You give them what they want, they do the thing, they have fun, they log, people see people being logged, player pop goes up, more people log because player pop is up and then you can move onto fixing other issues such as transports being way too strong for lone (snub) pirates to kill them, and then you play the game now that the gameplay-loop is back.
SURE WOULD HELP IF THE SERVER DIDN'T LAG THO
(07-28-2019, 09:03 PM)JonasHudson Wrote: Last point: If you are bored, start posting in the Mod General Discussions forum that you want more stuff to do, and I mean, more sandbox activities, more in-game systems (not star systems) that allow players to generate, things that other players would want to stop or cash in on. Scidata was a great example, but so few spots, and interest seems to have dropped. On top of ores, gases, scraps, scidata, we should be farming pilots for faction rewards, things that let you have effects on the environment so people will not get bored of it.
Scidata was and is awful. It completely broke the economy even more and now traders are all but extinct. The classic gameplay loop needs to return because nothing else seems to work; traders > pirates lawfuls. Traders trade to get things (now broken by scidata and these events that bloat the economy some more, thanks), pirates pirate traders for fun and some small cash profit, lawfuls intercept pirates for roleplay and pvp. Rinse and repeat until the end of time; it never got boring. It was dynamic, thrilling, and you never knew what would happen. Now transports are too strong to get shot at by lone snubs and they don't even need to trade anymore because people already have infinite amounts of money.
Because of that simple gameplay loop you had people playing, and because of those, people saw the playerlist and went "damn thats an active server" and joined in themselves. Then activity spread around everywhere because there were enough players, and now there aren't any. Making the gameplay loop alive again would certainly be a step in the right direction but there's just too few people.
Edit: Liberty should be in constant war, at all times, in their home space, regularly switching between houses to be at war with. It was magical as a newbie to walk into Texas randomly (without even knowing there were many players logged and fighting there) and just seeing Bismarks and Overlords and a million snubs just clashing. Liberty is the starting area and it needs that "Wow!" to get people hooked.
While completely off topic to the Kusari VS Gallia discussion, it was brought up by some.
Rheinland vs Bretonia to me should not be a full scale war, but a war over Omega resources, one that has no huge consequences for the two houses as a whole. Both houses are exhausted (Bretonia in particular) and can only really stomach a border conflict. I wrote the below concept and was debating submitting it to staff for consideration, though it would probably have to wait for Gallia war to end.
<Conversion of Omega-2 into Bretonia-Rheinland Border Conflict Zone - But limiting escalation>
Concept:
Omega 2, bordering both Omega-3 and Omega-7, and containing both BMM and Kruger/Daumann NPCs who seek to exploit the Uncut Diamond resources located within, was to my knowledge intended to be a hot-spot for conflict between Rheinland and Bretonia, however this never materialized.
With the closing of the Gallia war intended to be soon (right?), arises a strong need for the BAF to find a source of activity for its player base, which is already struggling at present. Naturally, internal Bretonian factions should be looked to first. Gaians currently are allied against the invader, though this could change once the war ends (edit: with Edinburgh now Gallia, maybe not?), despite the friendship gained we need to take game-play into consideration. Mollys unfortunately do not exist. Corsairs are likely to be our biggest source of activity. Coalition are neutral, but this may change. Finally the Hessians as a result of Aland are no longer neutral, though they are understandably not interested in Bretonia. The conflict with the IMG has potential, and they have bases we should be clearing out of Bretonia. It is our duty however to find as many sources of activity as possible, to avoid repetition.
Here comes the idea; BAF proposes that Omega-2 become a border conflict system for Bretonia and Rheinland, based on the resources found within. At first you may think, why, that is madness, Bretonia having fought so long, must not even think about new fights. That is why this conflict must remain local, and there never must be a declaration of war. What happens in Omega-2, stays in Omega-2. We would request that development rubber stamps this RP, that Omega-2 conflicts cannot result in further warfare, owing to the systems nature as an hellhole, we can justify that the system renders any attempts at the recording of fights useless, and both governments are unwilling to let anything spill over based on pilot testimony alone.
Practical considerations, and required/recommended changes:
1. ZOI extension for BAF/RM military to Omega-2, and addition of relevant lines to enable this kind of conflict (absolute requirement)
2. Reduction of kill timer, and special message indicating the status of the system (strong requirement)
3. RP/story backing that the system disrupts messaging and recording equipment, rendering conflicts there completely invisible (strong requirement) >>Anyone can get away with attacking anyone, as long as it is within reason, a wild west.
4. Creation of bases for RM, BAF, RHA/SCRA and Corsairs. These bases should however not be manned, and mostly husks, called "refuel points" or something of that nature. They will allow restock only. (strong recommendation)
5. Increase of Uncut Diamond profitability to encourage more people to venture into Omega 2, and make something to fight. (recommendation)
6. Increase anomaly drop rate (recommendation)
7. Allow more factions to mine Uncut Diamonds at a good rate (just an idea)
Finally, specific requests for BAF:
1. A battleship in Omega 3, positioned west of Rugen. Recommend it be something akin to the Gwent (a lone BS with limited combat strength), the BS we lost during the Aland takeover could potentially be patched up and used depending on the condition. I would request a Battlecruiser dockable, but with no BBC and only the LLBC, it seemed the BS was more practical. If the BS could be a Carrier and not a Dunkirk, that would be interesting. RM I believe already has a BS in O7 to use.
We understand many of the above points are contentious, but we are not demanding all changes, just what is deemed reasonable.
Thank you for your consideration.
Basically we fight in Omega-2, but traders and miners can go on as before, and both houses can recover their strength while still having a source of activity.
Maybe similar concepts can be used for all houses, so anyone can fight anyone, but not have to go through the ordeal that is full scale war. Full scale war should not die as a concept, but ideally it should be less curb stomping.
Pretty sure people are voting for Rheinland and Bretonia to tumble over the omegas in particular, so yes. However, I do think they should just get zoi over most omegas, so we can have fights in Omega 7, 3 and 2. Maybe 5 aswell, so Bretonia, Rheinland, the Sairs and the Hessians can fight all in a big dogpile in the Hammen hole just for fun. : )
(07-29-2019, 03:58 AM)Markam Wrote: While completely off topic to the Kusari VS Gallia discussion, it was brought up by some.
Rheinland vs Bretonia to me should not be a full scale war, but a war over Omega resources, one that has no huge consequences for the two houses as a whole. Both houses are exhausted (Bretonia in particular) and can only really stomach a border conflict. I wrote the below concept and was debating submitting it to staff for consideration, though it would probably have to wait for Gallia war to end.
<Conversion of Omega-2 into Bretonia-Rheinland Border Conflict Zone - But limiting escalation>
Concept:
Omega 2, bordering both Omega-3 and Omega-7, and containing both BMM and Kruger/Daumann NPCs who seek to exploit the Uncut Diamond resources located within, was to my knowledge intended to be a hot-spot for conflict between Rheinland and Bretonia, however this never materialized.
With the closing of the Gallia war intended to be soon (right?), arises a strong need for the BAF to find a source of activity for its player base, which is already struggling at present. Naturally, internal Bretonian factions should be looked to first. Gaians currently are allied against the invader, though this could change once the war ends (edit: with Edinburgh now Gallia, maybe not?), despite the friendship gained we need to take game-play into consideration. Mollys unfortunately do not exist. Corsairs are likely to be our biggest source of activity. Coalition are neutral, but this may change. Finally the Hessians as a result of Aland are no longer neutral, though they are understandably not interested in Bretonia. The conflict with the IMG has potential, and they have bases we should be clearing out of Bretonia. It is our duty however to find as many sources of activity as possible, to avoid repetition.
Here comes the idea; BAF proposes that Omega-2 become a border conflict system for Bretonia and Rheinland, based on the resources found within. At first you may think, why, that is madness, Bretonia having fought so long, must not even think about new fights. That is why this conflict must remain local, and there never must be a declaration of war. What happens in Omega-2, stays in Omega-2. We would request that development rubber stamps this RP, that Omega-2 conflicts cannot result in further warfare, owing to the systems nature as an hellhole, we can justify that the system renders any attempts at the recording of fights useless, and both governments are unwilling to let anything spill over based on pilot testimony alone.
Practical considerations, and required/recommended changes:
1. ZOI extension for BAF/RM military to Omega-2, and addition of relevant lines to enable this kind of conflict (absolute requirement)
2. Reduction of kill timer, and special message indicating the status of the system (strong requirement)
3. RP/story backing that the system disrupts messaging and recording equipment, rendering conflicts there completely invisible (strong requirement) >>Anyone can get away with attacking anyone, as long as it is within reason, a wild west.
4. Creation of bases for RM, BAF, RHA/SCRA and Corsairs. These bases should however not be manned, and mostly husks, called "refuel points" or something of that nature. They will allow restock only. (strong recommendation)
5. Increase of Uncut Diamond profitability to encourage more people to venture into Omega 2, and make something to fight. (recommendation)
6. Increase anomaly drop rate (recommendation)
7. Allow more factions to mine Uncut Diamonds at a good rate (just an idea)
Finally, specific requests for BAF:
1. A battleship in Omega 3, positioned west of Rugen. Recommend it be something akin to the Gwent (a lone BS with limited combat strength), the BS we lost during the Aland takeover could potentially be patched up and used depending on the condition. I would request a Battlecruiser dockable, but with no BBC and only the LLBC, it seemed the BS was more practical. If the BS could be a Carrier and not a Dunkirk, that would be interesting. RM I believe already has a BS in O7 to use.
We understand many of the above points are contentious, but we are not demanding all changes, just what is deemed reasonable.
Thank you for your consideration.
Basically we fight in Omega-2, but traders and miners can go on as before, and both houses can recover their strength while still having a source of activity.
Maybe similar concepts can be used for all houses, so anyone can fight anyone, but not have to go through the ordeal that is full scale war. Full scale war should not die as a concept, but ideally it should be less curb stomping.
yes, Border disputes consisting of military and intel factions only would be nice. trade doesn't get affected and many opportunities for interesting rp and pvp fun would be had. just contested territories where there isn't much to lose just activity generated
this is what the kusari vs rm in sig-21 should have been, but it devolved into rheinland invading honshu with two battlegroups
(07-28-2019, 08:15 PM)Pillow Wrote: Luckily Vex isn't here to ruin everything so let's revive this thing. Bretonia-Gallia war is ending soon, Kusari and Rheinland isn't wanted, Kusari-Gallia begins again. Dust off your Kusari ships and fight Lybxes like the good old days.
Oh and Rheinland turns to Liberty because Liberty must be at war at all times. No question. Newbies need a war to go "Wow!" at. I remember being in love with watching Military and Navy players dish it out in Texas.
Yep.
Many thrown away opportunities, keeping the wars separate. Kusari seems more likely to be alienated by Bretonia and Rheinland, and when the Rebublic was still its government they were pretty open to dealing with Gallia. The obvious choice long ago would have beeen to have Kusari join Gallia's side, and the rest of the houses band together for a major trans-sirius war.
It seems like wars are chosen at random based on what hasnt been tried yet.
So the real question is, will we ever find out how the Gallia war is supposed to end? It seems its been dragged out way longer than was planned. 4.91 dropped in December of last year and made it seem the end was imminent. Here we are, 8 months later, many fixed events, no end though. Its hard to end a war in favor of one side when it doesn't make sense. All this work going into the mod just around avoiding ending it in Bretonia's favor and to avoid Gallia being pushed back.
All these events were not necessary. In the end if the result is fixed, might as well lay it out. The summer is being wasted keeping the big change from coming when we could be moving on.
Having said that, I'm all for taking this to a full Sirius wide war for a short time to justify a quick pushback. Otherwise, the longer the war is dragged out, the less it makes sense. Because the fixed storyline taking precedent over anything else, players are silently locked from really moving forward or taking free actions for fear it clashes with a plan only the devs see and know.
Like, I know the devs want to keep people guessing and keep some surprises, but... at this point it also comes across as dangling a carrot in front of a horse to keep it walking. Fixed stories dont need to go on for 6-7 years anymore.
Last point: If you are bored, start posting in the Mod General Discussions forum that you want more stuff to do, and I mean, more sandbox activities, more in-game systems (not star systems) that allow players to generate, things that other players would want to stop or cash in on. Scidata was a great example, but so few spots, and interest seems to have dropped. On top of ores, gases, scraps, scidata, we should be farming pilots for faction rewards, things that let you have effects on the environment so people will not get bored of it.
It would've been done in March if we didn't spend two months of a development cycle setting up a new server, and the rest of the time being screamed at for actually moving the war along. We're not dangling a carrot intentionally, more like we keep getting kicked around while trying to finish the thing.
In regards to actual topic -
Bret/Rhein skirmishes - its a possibility, but I would like to see it limited to intel factions and corporations only.
Kusari/Gallia - much less likely in the current status quo. If Rhein/Kusari actually comes to an end, Kusari is effectively devoid of large scale enemies sans the Outcasts for the forseeable future.
Those statements aren't in gold and therefor aren't gospel. Besides which, everything is going on the backburner until Bretonia vs Gallia is over. I cannot wait for the complaints about how we "rushed" the ending after 8 months of trying to get it done.
(07-29-2019, 04:58 AM)Quetz Wrote: Another war with another house is too much for Bretonia, imo. How about in house strife stirred by Molly+Coalition?
It isn't a war, that is what the write up tries to put across, assuming you read it? All action is limited to Omega-2. We can talk about Coalition conflict, but we are currently neutral, and Mollys are dead, stone cold dead.
Bretonia, and indeed Rheinland, need something to do when their respective wars end, and it must be in such a way that allows them to regain strength and not destroy each-others economies by removing trade routes.
(07-28-2019, 09:05 PM)Pillow Wrote: Scidata was and is awful. It completely broke the economy even more and now traders are all but extinct. The classic gameplay loop needs to return because nothing else seems to work; traders > pirates lawfuls. Traders trade to get things (now broken by scidata and these events that bloat the economy some more, thanks), pirates pirate traders for fun and some small cash profit, lawfuls intercept pirates for roleplay and pvp. Rinse and repeat until the end of time; it never got boring. It was dynamic, thrilling, and you never knew what would happen. Now transports are too strong to get shot at by lone snubs and they don't even need to trade anymore because people already have infinite amounts of money.
Because of that simple gameplay loop you had people playing, and because of those, people saw the playerlist and went "damn thats an active server" and joined in themselves. Then activity spread around everywhere because there were enough players, and now there aren't any. Making the gameplay loop alive again would certainly be a step in the right direction but there's just too few people.
Edit: Liberty should be in constant war, at all times, in their home space, regularly switching between houses to be at war with. It was magical as a newbie to walk into Texas randomly (without even knowing there were many players logged and fighting there) and just seeing Bismarks and Overlords and a million snubs just clashing. Liberty is the starting area and it needs that "Wow!" to get people hooked.
Basically this, after the unending train of Council refugees I haven't had any reason to log my smuggler which is my main ship. Like yea cool I have the most money I've had since .85 but going to get that bread lead to a lot of opportunities because I was always around trying to scrape together a few credits to make a fighter. Now I'll just putter around empty systems in a fighter for like 30 minutes before giving up and logging off
Also my main trade ship is a smuggler because there's no lawfuls to catch me either lmao
(07-29-2019, 05:13 AM)Durandal Wrote: Those statements aren't in gold and therefor aren't gospel. Besides which, everything is going on the backburner until Bretonia vs Gallia is over. I cannot wait for the complaints about how we "rushed" the ending after 8 months of trying to get it done.
(07-29-2019, 05:13 AM)Durandal Wrote: Kusari/Gallia - much less likely in the current status quo. If Rhein/Kusari actually comes to an end, Kusari is effectively devoid of large scale enemies sans the Outcasts for the forseeable future.
I will never understand how things like wars between Houses can't just be decided by the community. You don't ask them on things such as balancing snubs and caps, that's fine, it makes sense, but asking people on things such as where they'd like to shoot and where they'd like the relationships between the Houses to go is a good idea. People weren't asked if they wanted buffer systems; we know what happened there.
If Kusari ends up being devoid of large scale enemies, Liberty should take that slot. Once the war between Bretonia and Gallia ends, I'm imagining Liberty vs Gallia will end too. I mean, Gallia and Liberty share no borders besides Leeds, I guess; but they've been fighting Gallia almost as long as Bretonia has.
(07-29-2019, 05:13 AM)Durandal Wrote: Bret/Rhein skirmishes - its a possibility, but I would like to see it limited to intel factions and corporations only.
And again, I think what the community wants most is what should happen here. The overwhelming majority seem to want a skirmish over the Omegas; leaving Houses without another House to tumble with is and always will be a bad idea. Kusari and Rheinland suffered through that for so many years it's a wonder people still remembered that they were in the game.
Nobody wanted the Kusari/Rhein war, but people sure as ass want Kusari/Liberty, Rhein/Bret (over the Omegas).
Gallia needs someone to tumble with too, but since it's Gallia, and since they've been the primary enemy of everyone ever for the past, like, ten years? I'm sure people wouldn't mind if they started finally being on the back-end of things for a while. Push into Omicron Tau so they can skirmish with the Outcasts I guess.
As a final point; I really don't think people care about story quality or anything of the sort at this point. People only care about their own little space pixel empires and little else, so simply following what the overwhelming majority wants in terms of House wars is probably the safest way to go. The people who play and participate in these wars should be the ones ultimately deciding where wars happen, at least between the big 4.
then again its also 7:45 am and i may have just written a couple paragraphs of gibberish so yeah good luck reading through it if thats the case lmao
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