New York PVP?

[Bjorn]

Problems in debate ive seen so far:

1. Rule for Civilian ID until 30 = no shoot, any other ID on any other level = shoot is finest so far, and actually solves all problems

2. Separating lvl up to 30 and 31+ = destroying whole possible aspect of game

Let me explain reasoning. If you are aware of server rules and ways of RP, you will buy ID, because as far as ive seen, only complete newbies use civ ID because they are not aware of how things function. When they buy first ID card (wich is Liberty Police since its most easy avalible one) they are entering roleplay aspect. Im actually glad to see someone that is not flying heavyest ship avalible with codenames/nomads mounted(wich is actualy why i detest pvp) but simple light fighter mk 1. Further on, I dont see a roleplay reason for anything bigger that fighter firing upon fighter. Why? Beacuse, you are not here to shoot everything that moves. You get promoted to operate cruiser, and fighters arent your concern anymore, its job for your own fighters.(and unlawfuls shouldnt fly anything bigger than fighter unless on full scale attack, or defending own base) Example, liberty should not be able to support more than 5 battleships, 10 cruisers, and 40 or so gunboats. Why? first, they dont have resources, like h-fuel that makes those hulking ships moving, not to mention pay for crew, maintrance, repairs, food, water, etc... Its same for any other faction... I mean, corsairs have strictly written on ID for anything larger than gunboat, restricted, meaning only 2-3 ships of that class. Ive seen about 7 osiris class ships with corsair color. I mean that all rp should be taken down to class 8 weapon/shields/armor, simply because its more rp in non fighting and running away that shooting your 4 nomad weapons(wich i cannot see how anyone living in sirius and knowing what nomad are would ever put on their ship and not be in constant fear for personal sanity) and 2 coladas.

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ISS-Zapotec

[Doom]

Ok...so we have xeno pilots in LFs and low level flying around NY causing trouble and killing newbies. Lawfulls mind that, and most players acctualy so here we are making more rules. OK...i can live with that.
But constant trashing of low Xenos gets on my nervers...

There is more systems out there..NY isn't only one...

Example from my point of view...as xeno...

New player comes on line...let say hes lvl 20...and he doesnt want to mine silver, but he comes to Ouray and harvest Xenos in starflyers. Naturaly, since i am large and fat Xeno i can't do a thing..i can't even scare him away....and that puts me in the same position as lawfuls in NY...(he can even CD me, but cause he cant drop half of my shiled it isnt self defence if i shoot him)

So i also made one low level xeno in starblazer to fend of that obvious attack on Ouray (in RP manner)...(that char isnt used in NY though)...

my small xeno has proper ship, weapons, ID and is lvl 26. Only char i ever killed in it was actually a VHF. But it works wonders against patriots and CSVs who harvest xeno NPCs...mostly scares them away...it is named same like NPCs so it is hard to tell that i am even a player.

i am saying this only cause i want to stress one thing out...before low lvl xenos stormed NY...long before that...we were stormed by low lvl players (mostly new)...in Colorado...and probably elsewhere...almost nobody showed any respect...cause it would be logical, just like in NY, if you come near Ouray with hostile intentions, especially when there is big a$$ eagle or even gunboat around that you get shoot...

so in the same way, like low xenos cant fly around Manhattan as they would be shot by police, you cant go to Ouray attack base and NPCs...civilian ID or not....

i dont want to see unlawfulls to take advantage of newbies...but this IS RP server...and newbies must respect RP that was happenig before they came here.

[Panzer]

Well it's pretty much okay to have some under-baddie... matter of picking the right targets: Players who started some few hours earlier, are above lv 20 but below 31 are prime targets. Above 31 - in /some/ cases like a badly equipped HF or freighter. Problems start when regular lawfuls can't do anything about a bunch of under-baddies rampaging in Manhattan's high orbit. That's where he frustration appars.

However... under-level police might be a good solution. (I'm honestly missig LPI - seems like they fell asleep in that doghnut cafe of theirs)

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[Spear]

@ Doom: You make a valid point in that this is an RP server but a line has to be drawn somewhere. I have several Xenos so this is not an anti-Xeno viewpoint.

New player comes on line...let say hes lvl 20...and he doesnt want to mine silver, but he comes to Ouray and harvest Xenos in starflyers. Naturaly, since i am large and fat Xeno i can't do a thing..i can't even scare him away....and that puts me in the same position as lawfuls in NY...(he can even CD me, but cause he cant drop half of my shiled it isnt self defence if i shoot him)

Lets say that new player is level 5 or 10! You shouldnt be touching them and yes I think we all have to ignore them.

i am saying this only cause i want to stress one thing out...before low lvl xenos stormed NY...long before that...we were stormed by low lvl players (mostly new)...in Colorado...and probably elsewhere...almost nobody showed any respect...cause it would be logical, just like in NY, if you come near Ouray with hostile intentions, especially when there is big a$$ eagle or even gunboat around that you get shoot...

I am responding to this because I need to stress one thing. At exactly the same time you were swamped with under level players farming Xenos. Liberty lawfuls were having to watch enemy Battleships, Cuisers, Gunboats and fighters killing all lawful NPC's in full view of Manhattan and there was nothing we could do about it. Now we can. I am prepared to overlook under level 30 Civillians continue to kill lawfuls in front of me as they do not excist to me. They are not part of RP and I can ignore them with impunity. What I cannot stand is tolerating a level 28 Xeno ID player doing this in front of me without fear of attack and then that said Xeno leaping on a level 5 starbug and killing him. Just because you RP a Xeno well does not mean that the players that do this have the same ability.

Doom this is not about creating new rules, this is about amending the current ones to close a loop-hole that is allowing new players in starbugs getting killed by idiots. We have to do something, and if that means I have to watch under level 30 civillians killing lawfuls or Xenos in whatever char I play then so be it.

This is not a Xeno bash, I am not a Xeno-phobe! Wait that expressions already taken :D This is an anti-lamer bash!

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=LSF=

[GothicLord]

to be honest there shouldnt be any of this within the server the game server is there for people to come on after school or work and relax and chill out with some mates within there faction if all these problems keep happening i can see the admins turning off pvp in new york and then everyone will be bitching about the no pvp in ny so the admins cant win they are just trying to keep the server balanced for us all not just for them..


i think the rule that igiss came up with is good and to enforce that i think every single faction who wants to be a faction on the server should make there pilots over level 30 which will cut out all this nonescence and then maybe we can enjoy the server without the constent whining of players that have died or been killed

because if it dont stop we will just lose players that will get tired of all of this and then the server will be rubbish


on a separet note .. i want to extend my thanks to the admins for working so damn hard to give us this brill server

[jammi]

Right, like Doom, I mantain a low Lv. Xeno in a 'blazer. I use it to defend Quray from attack, and to train new Xenos. The only time I'll go into NY is for a rare raid (and usualy that at the end near the Depots + Detriot TL which is where you find the NPCs) or to blow the depots for someones rep. I don't sit outside manhatten for hours and I essecialy don't kill Starfleas. I explicitly tell all those I train not to attack 'fleas. I've also adopted the Xeno's seemingly suicidal attack method, with me and another Xeno starblazer attacking and winning against a Navy playr in a Falcon. Some off my associates have been known to attempt to take on R. Talons as well. Ok, he got owned, but thats not the point. We would only kill a 'flea if they were killing Xeno NPCs or shooting us. I've had a Lv. 5 pop out a TL before, who then sees the Xeno tag and start shooting at me. It's sorta funny seeing a hyperactive new player in a flea try and take a 'blazer and I ignore him/her for other players amusment or engage him/her in RP. I also give player mining the silver fields tips, like: don't mine silver- mine copper.

Low Lv Xenos can bring good RP about, ask Yoda[T] about when Xeno pilots were negotiated back into our custody. Besides, flying a starblazer isn't exploiting the rules, there's a good chance new players could beat you in say a defender with the right layout- it's not like flying a Griffin keeping it at Lv 29, and then not being able to tractor loot in fear of going over Lv.

EDIT: plus usualy I don't fly with bats/bots which makes new players winning easier

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[CCX-Smuggler]

smugglers 2 cents:

Xenos are terrorists. If it says Xeno on it, it is a terrorist ship. If a terrorist is attacking an innocent then lawful forces have a RESPONSIBILITY to provide defense.

In the real world if you are recognized as a terroist you are "dealt with"

If someone is gonna be a terrorist, act like a terrorist, then it is reasonable to assume that they are aware they are going to be shot at like terrorists.

Rather than changing pvp rules, why not simply say, if you are going to be a terrorist, expect lawful forces to act accordingly when they find you. That ought to put an end to terrorists camping in ny and hasseling newbies, while still allowing the reputable role players to act like xenos.

After all....in the wilderness the wolves eat the weak

[Igiss]

Getting an ID before level 30 is player's choice. If he/she wants to, there's a possibility to advance to level 40 without any ID. If player joins a faction, however, and/or gets an ID, there's no reason why not become eligible for PvP.

Also, the current 50 thousand price effectively prevents players under about level 15 (I think) from getting IDs without 3rd party help. Those who fly Patriots and Rhinos will hardly become victims of this rule.

[Doom]

smugglers 2 cents:

Xenos are terrorists. If it says Xeno on it, it is a terrorist ship. If a terrorist is attacking an innocent then lawful forces have a RESPONSIBILITY to provide defense.

In the real world if you are recognized as a terroist you are "dealt with"

If someone is gonna be a terrorist, act like a terrorist, then it is reasonable to assume that they are aware they are going to be shot at like terrorists.

Rather than changing pvp rules, why not simply say, if you are going to be a terrorist, expect lawful forces to act accordingly when they find you. That ought to put an end to terrorists camping in ny and hasseling newbies, while still allowing the reputable role players to act like xenos.

After all....in the wilderness the wolves eat the weak

oh really?....please fly to Ouray in Rhino with police tag and see whats gonna happen...

this goes both ways...

also i agree with Igiss words...especially since Xeno ID costs 500 000 credits....

[Igiss]

Rules updated.

Rule 5.4 (now 5.3) edited to contain following text:

5.4 Attacking characters of level 29 and below is prohibited. Characters under level 30 cannot be attacked by players of any level, except if they have non-Civilian ID onboard, and except cases of self-defense.

Rule 5.1 about PvP in New York and about non-obligatory RP in NY was removed. Rule that players escorted by other players above level 30 can be attacked by anyone was removed as well (is not needed with new 5.3, and it's hard to determine what is escort in some cases).