Kushan VHF hitbox

[OsoRojo]

Ok, though I have:

Versus MkII: 3 guns/2 turrets vs. 6 guns, 9800 vs 10,000 armor, agility: 1.3 vs. 1.156 (I think) bat/bots +2 for Kushan, Viper gets 4 lvl 10 vs. 3 for Kushan, and turrets are level 5. Overall, in my mind, equal footing.

MkII gets weapon and armor advantage, Kushan gets agility and 2 bot/bats

[Dark Centurion]

@ Starbutt

In your posts you continually illude to the fact that you are not ok with a cylon ship matching a viper. Mk I or Mk II. Lvl 10 shields ok you guess? Are you on crack? All I want is a straight up comparable ship. Pound for pound. Is that too much to ask for?

I have never picked a ship to gain an edge in combat. Here are the following criteria for my ship selection.
1. Must look cylon
2. Must be alien made
3. Must be a ship not in major use
4. Must fit our RP and be reasonable to get

I don't care about changing stats or hitboxes or any of that crap. All I want is a ship that is equal to our enemies ships. Not exactly stat for stat but at least in the same ballpark. I don't think thats too much to ask for. If you say otherwise then you have a hidden agenda. And if its not too much to ask can I have it look nice too?

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[Doom]

I think its been proven many times that Datastorm, and simple .ini numbers do not show in-game agility accurately. If you had used the search feature, you'd know this.
I guess you don't get out much then. I've never blown off my wings. Heck, no enemy has ever shot of my wings. More than just Zapp play stock BDs. Also, the fact that some people shoot off the wings is not an excuse to nerf the ship. By your rules of nerfing, I should ask Titan agility and armor to be nerfed because its impossible to hit it with its wings shot off. Your trying to nerf a ship based on a FEW people's tactics of flying it without wings.
You'd simply be guaranteeing that everyone does it, as it'd be the only way to stay alive. We people who play the ship fairly would be completely screwed over because of it. What would you say if we nerfed the Corsair gunboat because a few people were abusing a tactic? You'd be pissed. Don't be surprised when others don't want you going for an unneeded nerf on something because a FEW others abused it.
Now, what I posted was relevant, as its BSG/CR who are complaining about the Kushan, when they themselves use a ship with the same problem. So if Kushan needs fixed, the Viper does as well.

I fly both vipers and eagle...viper does not have same agility as eagle...and what you saying don't make much sense to me....eagle feels and flies different then the viper...

Viper MK II does need better hit box i agree...as i said before Liberty elite fighter 2 (that one what Juno-or whatever was her name flew) will cover entire ship better...(i can provide pictures of what i mean if anybody wants)

I for one also would like to Viper MKI to become HF or equal to LFs MKII....with lvl 9mounts...

[mjolnir]

I fly the Wrath yes.. as it's the only VHF the RM has.. no HF MKII there. (Valkyrie has max lvl8)
RH bomber.. only choice

Chimaera...only choice
Kusari bomber ... again only choice.. and I say out loud that it has too small hitbox

Falcata with my Outcast ... yes not the Blood Dragon bomber... even though I "could"
Sabre....with Outcast

BD bomber with the BD.. only choice
Crow with my BHG... is that wrong?
Slipstream with LH
Sabre with LH

and I'm going to fly the Mjolnir SHF no matter how bad it would be.

Now the only Cylon ship that I see around is the Marauder... you have a BSG fan signature... => only choice for you isn't it?

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It has been brought up because nobody noticed it/or mentioned it yet. What I don't like is that you keep saying that we only want to nerf your beloved ship because you are so good in it.

For my part you could just replace the model with a very small one that fits with the current hitbox. But now it's broken.. no matter how you twist it.

@Dab it's not the BSG/CR that brought it up.. it's me... *winks*
and I asked the BSG in game to come and comment if they think it has strange hitbox.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[StarButt]

Ok, though I have:

Versus MkII: 3 guns/2 turrets vs. 6 guns, 9800 vs 10,000 armor, agility: 1.3 vs. 1.156 (I think) bat/bots +2 for Kushan, Viper gets 4 lvl 10 vs. 3 for Kushan, and turrets are level 5. Overall, in my mind, equal footing.

MkII gets weapon and armor advantage, Kushan gets agility and 2 bot/bats

Yes, if it was a RP turn based game, those would work as "equal footing". In flying/shooter as FL, difference between 1.3 vs 1.156 agility and difference in size of hitbox carries twice the weight of number of guns, or armor. That's the reason most LFs are DEADLY to most VHFs. Ergo: far from equal footing. Marauder would be "equal footing". But it is your choice in the end and I will respect it.

@Dab: Why are you talking jiberish? Titan w/o wings would still be a BRICK TO FLY and a bigger target than BD with wings. And I don't need datastorm to see difference in agility between BD and Viper. I have them both and i fly them both. I fought vs vipers and vs BDs, and had friendly duels Viper to Viper, BD to Viper and Viper to BD. I've tested all possibilities, and the conclusion stands: Viper is twice the size of BD and 2x less in agility. BD has performance and size of the LF, armament and armor/shields of the VHF. Even average pilot can take out most other VHFs (wrath not included) in a BD. And due to the dynamics of the game, numbers of fighters or firepower means little, so one BD can probably stand alone against 3 or more Vipers, and possibly against ridiculous number of Titans.

Dab, mate, you didn't invent "hot water" on this one. Check and see that every other respectful "PVP whorer" is using either BD or Wrath. None of the more experienced PVPers is gonna reach for Viper and certainly not for Titan. Even Raven's Talon is out of the choice due to nerf, that only brought it closer to Viper. Enough said....

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Your Image exceeds Forum Regs, Please replace.......BULLDOGNK

[Dab]

I fly both vipers and eagle...viper does not have same agility as eagle...and what you saying don't make much sense to me....eagle feels and flies different then the viper...

The Eagle is heavier, so it 'slides' as it turns (like drifting a car). The Viper does not slide, but makes crisp turns. But they both TURN at the same rate.

Viper MK II does need better hit box i agree...as i said before Liberty elite fighter 2 (that one what Juno-or whatever was her name flew) will cover entire ship better...(i can provide pictures of what i mean if anybody wants)

Thank you, finally someone agrees that the hitbox is fugged. (For a forum-appropriate word..). When Reaver and I fought the 3 BSG in Chugoku, I had so many shots that went through the hitbox.

Now the only Cylon ship that I see around is the Marauder... you have a BSG fan signature... => only choice for you isn't it?

They used the Marauder for a long time. Then guess what happened.. BSG compained about it and said it was bad. It had a buggy hitbox, which was true.. But they didn't stop with fixing the hitbox. The halved the agility, cut the armor, cut the firepower, and the energy. It was a good vessel with a buggy hitbox, now its a slow-ass HF with little firepower and not enough energy to use it.
Thats the samr thing thats starting to happen here. I'd rather not see YAN. Yet Another Nerf. All because BSG wants it because they find it too difficult to fight an enemy when they are on EVEN terms.

It has been brought up because nobody noticed it/or mentioned it yet. What I don't like is that you keep saying that we only want to nerf your beloved ship because you are so good in it.

They say that because for the BSG/CR, its true. There is evidence of it in multiple places. This has already happened more than once. BSG/CR come up against a ship thats too good, they want a nerf.
That may not be what your doing, but it is what BSG/CR is doing.

@Dab it's not the BSG/CR that brought it up.. it's me... *winks*
and I asked the BSG in game to come and comment if they think it has strange hitbox.

Yes, I know. And I said that BSG/CR did not have any right to complain about this. I didn't say others didn't have a right.



@StarButt; Really? None of the AW have BDs. Not a single one. Wraiths don't use BDs, we use Sabres. And I'm fighting the Wraths bud, so if I were out to pvp whore like you claim everyone is, don't you think I'd use it? Especially since my Wraith character is actually Kusari and has connections with the GC, where he could get access to the BD. But do I have a BD? No. Want to know how many Outcasts I've seen flying SABRES?! Well, all but one. Because I've only seen one Outcast VHF thats not a Sabre, and that person had a reason to fly the BD.
Now I go look at the people other than RoS/101st that you fight.. All are Blood Dragons or Golden Chrysanthemums.. And you wonder why the hell you find Blood Dragons VHFs all over the place?! Grow some eyeballs then.

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[OsoRojo]

"I was hanging on his six for quite some time... firing shots from about 150 ms behind him. (That is really close) and I watched 9/10 of my shots fly right trough the last 1/2 of his hull.

but no more "learn to aim" comments. That is my specialty

I also have to agree that it doesn't make you kill more people.. it just means the fights lasts longer. If you are so good at dodging then you can surely do as well in a different ship?

Ok so you agree that you don't fly the proper RP ships because you don't want to loose? Well it's simple, write to Igiss in the balance thread how would you like the Marauder or whatever other ship to be... if he sees it fit he will change it.

You used the Marauder when it had a strange hitbox... why did you stop using it after it got fixed and got better agility and a torpedo?"

"It has been brought up because nobody noticed it/or mentioned it yet. What I don't like is that you keep saying that we only want to nerf your beloved ship because you are so good in it."

Sir, I still maintain that position due to your own words. You constantly imply it. You wish me to stop using my Kushan and move on.

[mjolnir]

Nice.. I agree with something that Dab said.
That's about second time :yahoo:

Not commenting on the BSG/CR vs Cylon relations.. not my business

only one thing

They used the Marauder for a long time. Then guess what happened.. BSG compained about it and said it was bad. It had a buggy hitbox, which was true.. But they didn't stop with fixing the hitbox. The halved the agility, cut the armor, cut the firepower, and the energy. It was a good vessel with a buggy hitbox, now its a slow-ass HF with little firepower and not enough energy to use it.

I found that the Marauder had 1.2 something agility in 4.83 and now it has 1.31. So don't think it got nerfed there.

About firepower.... it has the Sabre powerplant!!!! That's quite enough to fire 6 Guns isn't it?

EDIT: @ OsoRojo

Well for my part you can simply start using the Blood Dragon.. because I know where to hit it... yes I want you to stop using it and keep implying it... because I like to know where I should aim.

I don't have a problem with NovaPG flying the Blood Dragon fighter. Against my KNF mostly 5 or more on 1. There when I hit the ship and see that I hit.. I see the damage.

On the Kushan I just watch projectiles fly trough.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[StarButt]

@Dab: I feel a lot of hostility coming from you, towards BSG and CR? Was it maybe because you weren't able to OMGWTFPWNem even with your uber BDs? Do you honestly think Viper is so overpowered? Have you ever flown one? And please, don't confuse "agility" with "maneuverability". Eagle CAN out turn Viper easily, but Saber cannot. Yet, Saber is MUCH MORE AGILE and can strafe, jinx and evade fire much more efficiently than Viper. On the other hand, BD can out turn viper, but it's main advantage is actually its agility. It cannot be HIT, cos of the speed at which it can change turn, or strafe. Coupled with the size of the Starflier, I'd say it's an overpowered ship. So as long as you fly BD, don't bring up the subject of "EVEN terms"

And note: BSG/CR didn't complain against marauder in the 1st place. Again the question was raised by some others, as it was on the matter of kushan.

EDIT:
BSG has most GC and BDs as hostile JUST BECAUSE of your UBER weaponry. We, don't APPRECIATE people that get to have THE BEST craft/guns available, in order to fit their RP of being UNBEATABLE. I will always be on the opposite side pitting my SKILLS, skills of my team mates, and our tactics, against YOUR VHFs that fly like LFs, and bombers that fly like VHFs.

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Your Image exceeds Forum Regs, Please replace.......BULLDOGNK

[OsoRojo]

"I was hanging on his six for quite some time... firing shots from about 150 ms behind him. (That is really close) and I watched 9/10 of my shots fly right trough the last 1/2 of his hull."

This I find very interesting after reflection. How can you go through my last half if your on my six? In addition, from the rear, as per my screenies, their is a very minor cross section, like a plus sign +, so extremely hard to hit. This calls into question your whole proposition.