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Darius · 04-03-2023, 05:19 PM,

People that know me will also know the fact that I absolutely love having disagreements being brought up to me and presented in a manner such that I can act on what's being suggested and fix the issue.

However, once those disagreements disappear from any chat, and instead appear on the forum in the form of sublime threats against the developer team and myself, I will retain my right to ask you, in the faction chat, if you've got any actual evidence proving your claims. If you have, fair and square, but if you don't, then you best have the same maturity you offered a model of when posting in that thread.

Furthermore, my role as faction leader has absolutely no connection to my work as a developer. On the development side I deal with none of the issues of "developing Bretonia" (we have a story team for that), but I help test things and give ideas about possible additions.

It's really simple. Respect me and I'll respect you. Try to start useless fights, and you'll earn a one way ticket away from this faction.

And as a last note, I will reiterate: if people have issues with what BAF's been doing, as well as suggestions to possible BretGov stuff, I'll gladly hear them out and implement them if they're reasonable. Nobody's banning anyone for coming forth to us with ideas. But if people can't maintain the most basic form of respect as human beings, then that's on them.

I hope this clears it up.

Egon Bigmemes · 04-04-2023, 12:33 AM,

insulting people and threatening to remove them from your factions discord because you disagree with them over their opinions and actions on absolutely nothing related to your faction is disgraceful

it doesnt clear anything up besides showing youre willing to use threats of removal of long-time members for sharing their opinions

Lemon · (This post was last modified: 04-04-2023, 10:48 AM by Lemon.)

I mean that's how it is in Disco, 1iCs going mental and losing their mind drunk on power. You vote with your feet and stay or leave as you have done. I doubt this behaviour actually surprised anyone who knows Darius, and it's his faction now after all. You are always free to start another faction on the same ID and do it better. The times when being an OF mattered are long gone anyways.

**Erremnart** · (This post was last modified: 04-04-2023, 11:38 AM by Erremnart.)

Having an opinion is a one thing, eagerly spreading baseless claims without backing them by any proof is another. The first one is a freedom of speech, the second one is not.

Accusing people that they abuse their power to make their factions stronger without any proof is despicable. False claims cannot repair the damage that has not been done, they have no positive effect on the community as a whole, they only sow more and more distrust between different groups.

There is no devtonia anymore. Not a single House/faction/station has any kind of a special protection aside from what's been established by the lore (Malta's planetary defense, for example).

We have made that very clear to Darius and BAF when they have been proposing some dev plans to us. Factions will win or lose whether they have staff members in them or not.

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Darius · (This post was last modified: 04-04-2023, 09:46 PM by Darius.)

I am a wee bit late due to getting bogged down in some issues at home (sleep) and having to finish up some paperwork stuffs irl.

Regardless, here's what happened in the chat, since there's nothing to actually hide:

Spoiler

PS: Some things like images and gifs don't load, hence the blank spaces at times.

Kalhmera · 04-04-2023, 10:45 PM,

(04-04-2023, 09:40 PM)Darius Wrote: I am a wee bit late due to getting bogged down in some issues at home (sleep) and having to finish up some paperwork stuffs irl.

Regardless, here's what happened in the chat, since there's nothing to actually hide:

Spoiler
Darius — Yesterday at 6:25 PM
@ Kalhmera where my and Markam's bias about Bretonia.
amogus — Yesterday at 6:26 PM
Darius — Yesterday at 6:26 PM
Shut up. Let him respond.
amogus — Yesterday at 6:26 PM
No
Saurissimo — Yesterday at 6:27 PM
amogus — Yesterday at 6:27 PM
You shut up
Darius — Yesterday at 6:28 PM
I'll give the mans 10 minutes to appear here and present whatever stuff he has as evidence.
Saurissimo — Yesterday at 6:28 PM
scary
but you should make it more than 10 minutes I think
Kalhmera — Yesterday at 6:29 PM
am I supposed to quiver in my boots?
I need to present evidence like im in a court case?
Darius — Yesterday at 6:29 PM
Let me make this clear.
Kalhmera — Yesterday at 6:29 PM
here we go.
Darius — Yesterday at 6:29 PM
You have a grievance over Attica.
Saurissimo — Yesterday at 6:29 PM
Darius — Yesterday at 6:29 PM
You saw Saronsen's post on the forum.
You went there and posted about me and other devs having biases for certain factions.
I don't care what you do elsewhere, but if you're a member of this faction, then you'll be expected to not be a complete and utter buffoon on the forum and in other discord servers.
The most simple and basic form of respect.
Kalhmera — Yesterday at 6:31 PM
Its called Freedom of speech.
im sorry if your not familiar with the term.
I didnt say anything disrespectful.
I didnt name call.
Darius — Yesterday at 6:31 PM
Is your freedom of speech presenting claims that don't even remotely approach the reality of what's happened?
You name called.
Image
Kalhmera — Yesterday at 6:32 PM
How did I name call.
did I call you a *****
Saurissimo — Yesterday at 6:32 PM
I think there is a misunderstanding on what freedom of speech and name calling means
Kalhmera — Yesterday at 6:32 PM
or a ***** idiot?
or a flower?
no.
thats disrespectful
I was being respectful.
Darius — Yesterday at 6:33 PM
You needn't call me a ***** to make the staff's reputation worse by releasing such statements.
Saurissimo — Yesterday at 6:33 PM
what I think Darius is getting at is for you to back up why you think Darius and co are biased as devs
Darius — Yesterday at 6:33 PM
There's no truth to it, regardless if the statement is polite or not.
Kalhmera — Yesterday at 6:34 PM
I have been a part of this faction for years. If my opinion of you goes against faction rules then I will leave and de tag my ships. You are biased, I saw it first hand in bret gov and I continue to see it.
I love the house bretonia, but not what you have made it out to be.
Darius — Yesterday at 6:34 PM
How does my interest in steering Bretonian roleplay as a player even remotely connect with the fact I'm a developer?
Especially when it's done with the allowance of other BretGov members.
Kalhmera — Yesterday at 6:35 PM
Im tired of this community so affraid of having a dialogue so they resort to threats
Darius — Yesterday at 6:35 PM
There's no threat. I'm asking you to grow a pair and act like an adult instead of posting these utter nonsense statements on the forum.
You're here.
I've tried my best not to be condescending with people in this server because of how well everyone's got along.
But when I open the forum and see another list of name calls with various accusations, what can I make of it?
Saurissimo — Yesterday at 6:36 PM
it's not a name call
but semantics aside, I think such grievances should be brought up here rather than on the forum, if you want any dialogue about it to happen
Kalhmera — Yesterday at 6:37 PM
So because im critical of how you dev and lead bretonia im name calling and being disrespectful and need to grow a pair
Darius — Yesterday at 6:37 PM
Mate, look.
Saurissimo — Yesterday at 6:37 PM
or, well, not here specifically
but with the people involved
Kalhmera — Yesterday at 6:37 PM
you just name called me.
saying I have small balls.
thats disrespectful.
Darius — Yesterday at 6:38 PM
There's a very, very, long road from "being critical" and "spreading disinformation".
Kalhmera — Yesterday at 6:38 PM
I didnt attack your body.
or your limitations.
Darius — Yesterday at 6:38 PM
Do you have any idea how despised the staff are because of statements like yours?
Kalhmera — Yesterday at 6:38 PM
but hey im disrespectful guys.
I will de tagg my ships by the end of the week. Please move the Core Battleship from the shared account I have, or dont, I wont log it.
Darius — Yesterday at 6:39 PM
Scumbag.
This is why Discovery's where it is.
PS: Some things like images and gifs don't load, hence the blank spaces at times.

Just showed the entire community you threatened me and came at me with hostile intent. Need I say more?

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Darius · 04-04-2023, 10:55 PM,

No, I demanded you to appear in the server as you were a faction member. I asked you then to provide whatever evidence you have of the claims. None was ever provided, you just went on to ramble about freedom of speech and how I was disrespecting you.

As long as you're in BAF, as I said in the chat too, you'll be expected to have some basic damned standards. If you can't follow these and can't either talk civilized without degenerating into debates about "freedom of speech", then you needn't be there in the first place.

Egon Bigmemes · 04-04-2023, 11:22 PM,

darius gonna grow up to be the guy in human resources who searches through your social media and decides you cant be with the company
dictating how people act when theyre not representing your faction ingame or on the forums is a real surefire way to get everyone to leave your faction

Megaera · (This post was last modified: 04-04-2023, 11:30 PM by Megaera.)

(04-04-2023, 09:40 PM)Darius Wrote: Darius — Yesterday at 6:29 PM
You saw Saronsen's post on the forum.
You went there and posted about me and other devs having biases for certain factions.
I don't care what you do elsewhere, but if you're a member of this faction, then you'll be expected to not be a complete and utter buffoon on the forum and in other discord servers.

What he does in your server or while flying on a BAF tagged ship is your business, yes.

What he does outside of that (on forums or on other discords) is none of your business.

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Darius · 04-04-2023, 11:35 PM,

If people want to do their best to put both staff and then me, as the faction leader, in a bad light without actually providing any semblance of proof as to their claims, then it's a mistake they even got admitted in there in the first place. BAF's supposed to remain both a newbie-friendly and a quality-focused faction regardless of circumstances. I'm not going to allow people to just spill vitriol on the forum without any evidence backing up their statements then remain in the faction. It's just how this works. Don't like it, don't join it. I will dare and impose some standards.

I know this is a hard concept to grasp, but I will lose absolutely no sleep over people leaving or me removing them due to their innaproppriate behaviour. Quoting "freedom of speech" isn't an excuse for berating the staff and no amount of acting as the victim will change the fact that what Kahlmera did was absolutely awful.

Respectfully, remember that everyone you are posting towards is also human. Disagreeing is fine, but outright saying that staff is biased then going and turning yourself into a pseudo-victim of discrimination means you're just ignorant.

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