Why do (or don't) you fly a Zoner? Serious question.

[Badperson]

So tell me. How come they were able to rise to a position as strong as that in two decades that took all four houses 800 years to do so?

Not remotely as strong. But when nobody is making your capitals explode, you get to keep them. Let's say that there are 10 zoner capital ships around inrp. Let's say that there are 100 liberty capships around inrp. But, while the zoners only ever produced 10 and managed to keep them due to the neutrality, liberty had probably produced hundreds more, losing many in the various conflicts such as the rheinland liberty war, others dealing with the random ranseur that decided to pop in NY. So historically, liberty might have had 500 capships, just that 400 of them exploded during conflicts which boring peaceful inrp zoner capital ships rarely (supposed to) have, therefore zoners aren't nearly possibly to the level of any house military, and rightly so.

On the topic of why zoner's supposed colony ships are more powerful than house battleships, but when you think about it, the house capship thing is pretty much an industry, and militaries not only have to produce the most devastating warships, they also have to produce them as efficiently as possible and sometimes that means cutting down on the raw firepower or survivability (which would be made up for by the much superior military training) in order to drastically lower the cost of their warships. Meanwhile, Zoner capitals weren't built to take part in a military conflict, but rather to survive, and therefore more resources might have been spared for each capital, because firepower is a diplomacy that all lesser armed threats would respect. At the same time, the houses know that Zoners aren't a threat because they simply do not have the training nor the industry to attack the houses, so suppose the aforementioned 10 zoner capships banded together to attack liberty, liberty would respond with their own 100 capships, and instantly crank out 50 more because they have such efficient warship factories, and ultimately due to liberty navy's military training they may not even lose a single warship in the hypothetical zoner invasion.

As a zoner trader a while back, I have encountered both pirates that accepted zoner neutrality and allowed zoners (and junkers) to pass freely, as well as pirates who gave supposed discounts to zoners, as well as pirates who didn't give a crap who you were. Personally I have never complained much about it, because neutrality isn't the same as being allied, and doesn't exempt anyone from piracy. However, it seems that people who hate zoner players hate them because they whine when they get pirated, but why can't they whine? They're getting pirated, whining is a pretty reasonable reaction! And if these whining zoners report you on the forums, has any of them actually successfully caused a sanction? If so, then you probably did more than breach Zoner neutrality.

This is something I tried to agree with. But the issue is, there are a lot of Zoner Colony Ships around these days (I fly one), and that number would basically contradict what you said. And what with everyone yelling "Turn it into a massive 5ker!", I see what they mean.

But then again, I see what direction you're going in too. Zoner Colony Ships, judging by just how powerful they are, should come with a serious price tag, because like you said they would have very limited numbers of these massive things. It's just so common because the price tag is just too average, and with your suggested lore the price should be MUCH higher.

Also, if we WERE to actually put your idea into motion, we could simply make the ZCSs SRPs, with 10 of them going to the official Zoner factions. Everyone else who owns a ZCS could get a Zoner Carrier on the house to compensate, and maybe 50 million for the money that was gone.

[lIceColon]

Even though the factions are inrp imbalanced, the amount of players are slightly more balanced. Everyone could rp their own zoner colony ships to be one of the 10 around, and it would make sense as long as every zoner player isn't flying around their nephilims at the same time.

[Badperson]

Even though the factions are inrp imbalanced, the amount of players are slightly more balanced. Everyone could rp their own zoner colony ships to be one of the 10 around, and it would make sense as long as every zoner player isn't flying around their nephilims at the same time.

But the issue is, how are you going to enforce that?

Or then again, you could always keep the Nephilims the same, only raise the price tag to like 600-650 million to make the serious price more logical. After all, it does cost a lot to build the 2nd strongest battleship in the game.

[Acolyte]

As a Zoner of seven years, I play them for the following reasons:

Diversity
Because it's the only roleplay that changes consistently. Every other faction is very cut and dry. Lawfuls shoot unlawfuls or other lawfuls they're at war with. Usually preceded by "Filthy kraut!" - "Capitalist pig!" - "WAAAAR".

Pirates pirate people. Mollys fight for their much-neglected freedom, but Bretonia doesn't seem like much of an opponent since Gallia is turning Leeds to pulp. Outcasts (used to) shoot Corsairs and Bunters and vice versa.

Zoners are different. At any given moment, we're presented with a dozen opponents who cropped up for typically-OORP reasons (see: the Great Zoner-Corsair War of 2010 in which 90% of the population starved to death). We're not neutral; we're hilariously un-neutral because people love to hate the Zoners. We're the Romani gypsies of Sirius (and believe me, if you've ever been to Florence, the gypsies really irk you). As such, people will find any and all reasons to shoot at us, which adds lots of spice to the mix.

Roleplay
Because any Zoner that actually roleplays doesn't do it with the intent of shooting things. That's just the brilliant folks that give us a bad rap. If the 101st (do they still exist?) got as much crap for every Sarissa in New York that the entire Zoner community gets for every lolwut in a Nephilim, things would be very different.

The fact of the matter is that freedom scares the community. This is why people like to live in the aforementioned bubbles in which roleplay is highly invariable. Granted, said freedom is abused by the aforementioned lulwuts, but again: Sarissas in New York.

People have said previously in this thread - "Why not play a Freelancer?" The answer is simple. A freelancer is for hire. You're a trucker looking for cargo. You're a rent-a-cop looking for something to protect. A freelancer is a drifter looking for a means of financial subsistence. A Zoner, by comparison, is a member of a community. He has a home, he has his own goals, and he is absolutely free from any governmental restrictions.

If players are allowed to play billionaires in yachts, insta-admirals and warlords in dreadnoughts floating through the dark of space - simply with an 800-word post in the story thread and simply because they wanted to play that character - I don't understand why it's so absurd to imagine that a billionaire wanted to take his money away from taxation and the red tape of House bureaucracy. That said, I don't understand why colony ships or anything with the potential to defend itself in the Omicrons - which, let me remind you, are the same environments that have historically decimated entire Liberty, Order, and BH fleets - is so silly.

But the ship thing is another matter entirely that I, poor plebe that I am, am powerless to affect; so let me get back on track.

Spite
Just to make everyone else upset knowing that I'm playing what I love and they hate me for it. It's kind of like when you're first married; somebody could spit in your face and call you an idiot, but sucka, it don't matter, you've married the [wo]man of your dreams.

Post-Script: Let it be stated that I wrote the preceding paragraphs with remarkably low blood pressure and heart-rate. No fury was experienced in the formation of these words. After seven years, you've heard it all and just stop caring what others think.

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Rebirth | The Journal of Virgil Harrison

[\JG/] - AU - RepEx - OSI - .:j:. - XA - SCRA - ELE - VE - Zoner for Life

I've seen it all, man.

[Thyrzul]

lIce, the usual zonerzonerzoner hugegapsinlore issue doesn't start here:

when nobody is making your capitals explode, you get to keep them

or here:

managed to keep

but rather here:

Let's say that there are 10 zoner capital ships around inrp...

...the zoners only ever produced 10...

...Zoners aren't a threat because they simply do not have the training nor the industry

and that only 20 years has passed since Vanilla, when Zoners had no caps. 3 or 4 constructed during this time would be plausible imo, but not 10+10.

Everyone could rp their own zoner colony ships to be one of the 10 around, and it would make sense as long as every zoner player isn't flying around their nephilims at the same time.

What would be your explaination to 10 caps having 20 names?

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[Panzer]

Because I'm an anomaly. I only play CR.

Versatile enough for anything short of mining.

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[Pancakes]

So tell me. How come they were able to rise to a position as strong as that in two decades that took all four houses 800 years to do so?

Not remotely as strong. But when nobody is making your capitals explode, you get to keep them. Let's say that there are 10 zoner capital ships around inrp. Let's say that there are 100 liberty capships around inrp. But, while the zoners only ever produced 10 and managed to keep them due to the neutrality, liberty had probably produced hundreds more, losing many in the various conflicts such as the rheinland liberty war, others dealing with the random ranseur that decided to pop in NY. So historically, liberty might have had 500 capships, just that 400 of them exploded during conflicts which boring peaceful inrp zoner capital ships rarely (supposed to) have, therefore zoners aren't nearly possibly to the level of any house military, and rightly so.

On the topic of why zoner's supposed colony ships are more powerful than house battleships, but when you think about it, the house capship thing is pretty much an industry, and militaries not only have to produce the most devastating warships, they also have to produce them as efficiently as possible and sometimes that means cutting down on the raw firepower or survivability (which would be made up for by the much superior military training) in order to drastically lower the cost of their warships. Meanwhile, Zoner capitals weren't built to take part in a military conflict, but rather to survive, and therefore more resources might have been spared for each capital, because firepower is a diplomacy that all lesser armed threats would respect. At the same time, the houses know that Zoners aren't a threat because they simply do not have the training nor the industry to attack the houses, so suppose the aforementioned 10 zoner capships banded together to attack liberty, liberty would respond with their own 100 capships, and instantly crank out 50 more because they have such efficient warship factories, and ultimately due to liberty navy's military training they may not even lose a single warship in the hypothetical zoner invasion.

As a zoner trader a while back, I have encountered both pirates that accepted zoner neutrality and allowed zoners (and junkers) to pass freely, as well as pirates who gave supposed discounts to zoners, as well as pirates who didn't give a crap who you were. Personally I have never complained much about it, because neutrality isn't the same as being allied, and doesn't exempt anyone from piracy. However, it seems that people who hate zoner players hate them because they whine when they get pirated, but why can't they whine? They're getting pirated, whining is a pretty reasonable reaction! And if these whining zoners report you on the forums, has any of them actually successfully caused a sanction? If so, then you probably did more than breach Zoner neutrality.

This is an argument that would easily get dismissed. During the building of 10 dreadnoughts those around Zoners would attack them.

It's called armaments racing, and the moment someone joins it, whatever his political agenda is - he loses his supposed neutrality.

You can't raise an army in the name of "peace" and expect it to be ignored, because nothing guarantees that this army will stay peaceful and not turn its edge on on you one day. And dreadnoughts are quite an army, they can lay waste to planets, and 10 of them is a threat, and not even just a "minor" one. Not to mention that how Zoners managed to scrap that much resources is still evading me, since I am yet still trying to find the justification for that.

1 battleship? 2? Plausible, I would still want to see the reasoning of "why" and "how" (both in terms of how they actually do it, and in terms of how they keep them from so-called neutral parties).

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BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

[lIceColon]

What would be your explaination to 10 caps having 20 names?

It's a gaaaaame. even now in the server's declining state there are over 100 players in peak hours. If the server regains popularity (pfft lol wtf am I saying) then there may be more players who want to fly or rp zoner caps, and they should be allowed to. Simply put, if there are only 10 caps in the game, but there won't be 10 players online all the time to man them, that creates openings for others. The explanation is the same explanation for the fact that a ship you just popped 2 hours ago is now on your radar again firing at you. Or the fact that liberty still has enough battleships even when NPC battleships ram manhattan on a regular basis.

This is an argument that would easily get dismissed. During the building of 10 dreadnoughts those around Zoners would attack them.

I wonder why they didn't attack them as well. Maybe because just because a ship has - to a certain extent, dreadnought capabilities doesn't make it a dreadnought. There are a multitude of ways Zoners could have prevented an attack. Perhaps - idk - they disguised the ship as an expansion to a freeport, and then one day popped on an engine and blammo, a nephilim is born.

You can't raise an army in the name of "peace" and expect it to be ignored, because nothing guarantees that this army will stay peaceful and not turn its edge on on you one day.

Not an army, just a ship. The difference is in the people and purpose. And if the ship turns on you then all hell would break lose, so both oorp server rules and inrp diplomacy rules prevent the ship from turning against you. And the fact is the ships won't band together because the ships are not owned by a single entity.

Not to mention that how Zoners managed to scrap that much resources is still evading me, since I am yet still trying to find the justification for that.

Because they didn't start from scratch. hell, maybe a rich executive from a house corporation suddenly turned zoner, and just like that they'll have all the resources they'll ever need.
How gallia managed to keep themselves hidden despite there being so many explorers and space telescopes etc in sirius is evading me as well, but the devs still made that one work didn't they?

1 battleship? 2? Plausible, I would still want to see the reasoning of "why" and "how" (both in terms of how they actually do it, and in terms of how they keep them from so-called neutral parties).

It is not a battleship. It is a colony ship with battleship capabilities. Just because you have battleship capabilities doesn't mean you ever have to use them

[Faxe]

Hm. I think the reason why I never really considered playing as a zoner much is because I feel like the only thing that I'd be allowed to do without getting yelled at from all sides is: sit around and do my best to talk in a way that people would like to hear it from a submissive zoner. Doesn't seem like a lot of fun.

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User was banned for: Karlotta
Time left: (Permanent)

[Thyrzul]

It's a gaaaaame.

Omg, it's a gaaaaame, why are we trying to stick to realism, eh? I want my Nephilims with extra unicorn-pony-robots and flying Lego bricks armed with death rays so I can take over Azeroth.

Couldn't you think of a lamer excuse than that?

I wonder why they didn't attack them as well. Maybe because just because a ship has - to a certain extent, dreadnought capabilities doesn't make it a dreadnought. There are a multitude of ways Zoners could have prevented an attack. Perhaps - idk - they disguised the ship as an expansion to a freeport, and then one day popped on an engine and blammo, a nephilim is born.

Or maybe because nobody was using a brain when developing stuff in earlier times at certain cases. I heard Jinkusus (precedessors of Nephilims) happened by 4.82 lore, as well as those times Disco wasn't about RP, rather a mere eye-candy shippack.

If it has the capabilities, then it can be used as such, and will be feared as such, something you simply can't ignore when maintaining diplomatic relations.

Not an army, just a ship. The difference is in the people and purpose. And if the ship turns on you then all hell would break lose, so both oorp server rules and inrp diplomacy rules prevent the ship from turning against you. And the fact is the ships won't band together because the ships are not owned by a single entity.

"Just a ship" is not ten plus ten ships. Aaaaand big ships. Want a diplomatically neutral big ship with barely any offensive purposes? Afaik those are called (super)transports.

Because they didn't start from scratch. hell, maybe a rich executive from a house corporation suddenly turned zoner, and just like that they'll have all the resources they'll ever need.
How gallia managed to keep themselves hidden despite there being so many explorers and space telescopes etc in sirius is evading me as well, but the devs still made that one work didn't they?

I love maybes. Maybe I'll use the same for Council, maybe god damn rich moneybag nobles fell out of the grace of the king, maybe they joined Council with all their wealth, what's stopping me to powergame myself into IDF and take over to estabilish the Republic? Oh right, realism, enforced by other players.

(In fact, unlike Zoners, The Council actually has a few examples of wealthy nobles joining our ranks, just not enough to be of great significance.)

About Gallia staying hidden for long, a little bit of research can help you understand that, you know, like minefields in O80 and Orkney sealing the only entrances, huge distance, etc.

It is not a battleship. It is a colony ship with battleship capabilities. Just because you have battleship capabilities doesn't mean you ever have to use them

How you use it defines its role. If you use it as a battleship (because you apparently can), it won't be a colony ship, whether you want to call it as such or not.

Again, having a battleship doesn't mean you have to use it. It means you can use it. And it matters a lot when it comes to staying peaceful with your neighbors.

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