How a player faction excludes a characteristic of the NPC faction

[Zelot]

This thread is useless, we are all people of imagination (probably the reason we play this game) and we can all come up with this scenario and that to support what we think should happen. Dab thinks Samura wouldn't be able to ship much food to Crete, he suggests the OC, GC, and Dragons would attack the supply lines, maybe they would maybe they wouldn't. Ashes and Dab say the Kusari government would be vilified for allowing humanitarian shipments to Crete, I mean they are pirates right? Bowex shipped to Malta, the Outcasts and BAF had their relations, the sky didnt fall. WARNING RL EXAMPLE: Europe and the United States give significant amounts of humanitarian aid to the Gaza strip, run by Hamas, a terrorist group, yet for some reason, the US and Europe are not attacked for supporting terrorists in Gaza, nor are they held accountable for Hamas's actions.



All of this is to say that they whole thing is too subjective. Dab you can make good arguments as to why you think things would progress in a particular manner, and I can make good arguments to the opposite effect, it doesn't make you right and me wrong or me right and you wrong. It's all very subjective. This is the problem with having faction able to control the development of their own rp direction, but this is the system we have, and to, on one hand tell factions that they have a say in their development, while on the other hand telling them they cant make any significant changes to their faction rp, doesn't make even a little bit of sense, but until the system is changes, that is what we are left with, and as long as that is what we are left with, the Corsairs will play the game just like every other faction in the game. The mollies wanted peace with the Bretonians, that was the mollies fatal flaw, they were allowed to remove it. The Liberty Rogues were overly dependent on the Outcasts for support and Cardi, that was their fatal flaw, gone now. The GC were dependent on the OC and BD for supplies and support, not any longer. The Corsairs are by no means the first to attempt to change their factions rp and minimize their fatal flaw, and I am sure they will not be the last, but as long as this is the system we have to work with, people shouldn't vilify the Corsairs for doing something many many other factions have done.

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[Not Espi]

But where have you roleplayed this with the Zoners? I've seen no roleplay at all during this entire situation to show the Corsairs have any supply issues. I've seen the opposite.

you know some of us actually like to PLAY THE GAME and do stuff ingame, rather than to write walls of text and dont spend time in game at all. it's an extreme exmaple, but the fact that you dont see proof of dozens of convoys ambushed daily in the omegas on the forums doesnt mean it's not happening. again, i can pm you a crapload of screenshots showing exactly this. and yet again, i'd rather spend some time ingame than to write up 239487 threads a day about how the corsairs are flourishing. no. they are not. we get what we need, just dont report every single successful pirating act. i should, but frankly, cant be arsed.

[Zelot]

Where do you have this weird construction from? Corsairs are attacking us and then they're complaining about an inRP response?

Come on, just because you can write anything it doesn't mean it's reflecting truth.

Now, if you're again falling back to some weeks before today, please explain exactly what the "Zoners of FP9 and O74" did to lose their neutrality, and please, use proper evidence this time and not your bias.

We can also cut it off and you're simply addmitting that you have no evidence of us doing something to provoke the attacks of the [A], and the failure of the Corsair factions to contain this RP abuse, am I right?

I guess that Nooblet and I should talk again about your attempt to have some RP negotiations in O74, because players who don't know to adhere to truthful statemtns are actually the cause for all of this crap.

Awesome sentiment Lou, "I am not going to rp with your character cause I dont like something you as a player said." Talk about lies, both sides can point to times when they think they have been lied to, I am sure both in an out of character. Please dont threaten in rp retaliation toward a character for the out of character comments of a player.

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[Zelot]

But where have you roleplayed this with the Zoners? I've seen no roleplay at all during this entire situation to show the Corsairs have any supply issues. I've seen the opposite.

Thats ridiculous Dab, the Corsairs have been RPing their supply problems or the IND wouldnt have brought in some 200+ thousand units of food, more than 50 thousand units of Multiplexors and 50 thousand units of alloys, all properly rped on the forums. Yes, we are not rping it with the Zoners, for obvious reasons we have had to look for other suppliers, we have been talking to Samura, the IND, the Hogosha and FA, as well as the Unioners and Gaians, so while not with the Zoners it has been quite thoroughly rped out on the forums and ingame.

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[mwerte]

The mollies wanted peace with the Bretonians, that was the mollies fatal flaw, they were allowed to remove it.

Igiss wrote a storyline where they removed that 'fatal flaw'. The players all kinda go "huh?" whenever the mollies try to get peace with the Brets.

The Liberty Rogues were overly dependent on the Outcasts for support and Cardi, that was their fatal flaw, gone now.

the Rogues (from Vanilla) were never overly dependent on Cardi, I'm not sure why vanilla didn't have the thugs of liberty be druggies, but they aren't. Instead the LR were dependent on the OCs for training and ship parts. Somehow the dev team (and then the player faction) just spat a Rogue shipline, and player pilots don't need OC training. Flaw in game mechanics and dev team.

The GC were dependent on the OC and BD for supplies and support, not any longer.

Stupid, yes. Getting fixed, hopefully.

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[Not Espi]

also the Junker Congress, Mike.

we have no specific deal, but shortly after the hostilities started, i met with hawk (yes, i actually met with the congress ingame, not scribble a thread) and sorted out peace between sails and the congress and the congress agreed to start supplying corsairs more.

ask them for proof. please. do it.

[Kubotan]

Not asking or suggesting, but literally demanding the Corsairs to depend on the Zoners is incredibly funny to see and very convenient as well. I didn't see you demanding anything when the GC became independent from the Outcasts. I didn't see you demand anything when the Liberty Rogues became independent from the Cardamine supplies from the Outcasts. And I certainly didn't see any complaints on your end when the Mollies established peace with the Bretonians. Their "fatal flaws". That's not breaking from the lore right? But if the Corsairs stop depending on the Zoners oh noooo, now it suddenly is. Get out of here.

mwerte, the main difference is, those counter-arguments you provide with have been fixed for this version, because they happened in the previous-previous version. For example the GC Guard System getting one of those Cardamine Production Facilities. Basically an upgrade by the mod itself was made to address those changes, but the point still stands about "breaking the lore and changing it through player-driven story". The Corsair issue is the same case, only it requires the next mod to address it.

[Taneru]

You know, I was thinking of posting here with an actual point, but now I see... what would be the use?

Neither side is willing to admit there was any wrong-doing on their part, neither side is willing to accept that there's anything wrong with their current actions, both sides are quite willing to throw the blame for it onto the opposition, and from what I see, anyone who comes in with a neutral viewpoint is dragged or forced over unwillingly to one side or the other.


I think the Corsairs are underestimating how much supplies you need to support a planetary population of a planet with a diameter FIVE THOUSAND KILOMETERS LARGER THAN THAT OF EARTH.


I think the Zoners are severely overestimating how simple it is to survive next door to a hostile nation for longer than a few days.

I think the Corsairs are overestimating the amount of food that can be supplied by Samura, Hogosha, and related transports.

I think the Zoners are overestimating just how much support they have from other factions.

I think the Corsairs are underestimating heavily just how much of an effect opening yet another war front is to them.

I think the Zoners are underestimating just how hard it is to go up against one of the most powerful unlawful forces out there, one which has kept the Outcasts at bay for roughly THREE HUNDRED YEARS.

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Characters
Alan Markson: The Hellfire Legion's Lord Commander
The Perihelion: Freeport Four's guardian, and yet much more. Missing and assumed Lost with all hands.
Eric Dresmund: Junker, smuggler, thief. Last seen drunk on Beaumont
Vayrn Wyard: IMG Recon pilot turned Neo-Terran Captain. Last location unknown

[Ceoran]

Samura are not feeding starving children and families, no, the media will not see it that way.

Umm... Free media in Kusari? I somewhat don't really think so.

In all honesty, how many units of food has Samura delivered in the past 11 months? I know that every once in a while I'll see a [|] running food too Crete, and once in a while I'll see an indy Hogosha bringing Arties to Kusari, so I assume they took food down.

Wasn't my point when I made that statement, but since you asked I'd assume somewhere around one million since we have a few people whoring that run every now and then. We have our ups and downs like everyone else though. But somehow it's rather funny how no one cared for that deal for 10 months...

*list of removed flaws*

To be honest, I wouldn't mind to see a few of them reinstated. Especially those involging the outcasts. It would prevent people from calling the Outcasts an ooRP faction since their roleplay would be more obvious and versatile.

I think the Corsairs are underestimating how much supplies you need to support a planetary population of a planet with a diameter FIVE THOUSAND KILOMETERS LARGER THAN THAT OF EARTH.

Can't be that hard if they all died from starvation before *whistles innocently and walks off*

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My Stories Outcast laws and structures Join Samura|-

Go play the game, within the given limitations. That is how role play games are played. Not by trying to work around those limitations or whining about them.

[BaconSoda]

So, basically what's going on here is that someone's RP is more different than someone else's RP, therefore the other person's RP is wrong. I don't want to say any one side is correct or not in their RP, because both sides have an interpretation of RP which can be deemed as correct.

Vanilla is clear about some things, but those things are very vague in their nature. There is no specific data available, and all we can be left with is interpretations. We know the Corsairs need food, but how much food is subject to debate. We know the Corsairs are angry with the Zoners nextdoor. but how angry the Corsairs are is a subject for debate. But you know what could happen instead of bickering on the forums?

We could all take our in-RP interpretations and apply them to our characters. Take your interpretation that the Corsairs need lots of food and start killing off food shipments from the IND, FA, Hogosha, and Samura. Make a Vigilante or Pirate IDed character and go to town. Take your interpretation that the GC, Blood Dragons, and Outcasts would cut down food transports and actually do it instead of arguing hypothetical situations. Zelot is right when he says that both sides of the argument can come up with reasons why the other could fail in their ventures, but which side is actually doing something ingame about their faults? Take your RP interpretations, like the Corsairs did with their anger and annoyance at the nearby Zoners, and put them in the game, for better or for worse. Actually RP what you are thinking about the situation and have fun in the game. If you're so annoyed with the communications hub, don't even look there.



Also, it's funny talking about statistics of the Corsair empire. While we're at it, lets talk about some Freeport 9 Statistics. Population: 100. But what about Corfu Base? Population: 80. This is inclusive of security forces. How exactly do 180 people plan to defend themselves from the Corsair Empire? It might be fighting on many fronts, but the Corsairs are still a battle hardened army while the Zoners are, well, the Zoners. I hate to make an ironic reference, but this is a lot like some kind of German invasion of the Isle of Crete in the 1940s...

Also, Freeport 9 was never a huge producer of food. It was a trading hub. A place where all sorts met and traded goods. Any extra food from Kurile was shipped there. The Zoners shipped in Pharmaceuticals from Atka as well. Many of the goods sold there were also imported from Yanagi. Yes, they produced food, but they only sold the Synth Foods Biodome food because it was cheaper to produce than buying the food from nearby Kurile or Yanagi. In this way, Zoners were less of a main producer, but more of a middleman for all sorts of goods. The Corsairs have now cut out that middleman and look to directly get the supplies.

And talking about statistics, I think the ratio of vanilla rumors which state the the Zoners lived in constant fear of the Corsairs to the rumors of the Corsairs doubting their ability to crush Zoners is 4:0. Of course, that's just reading through this page in my spare time. Someone else found that, and it's really neat, mostly because rumors are neat.

But, you know, just thinking of the other side here. That's my opinion of what's going on.

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[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.