People's main problem with The Judges.

[Lythrilux]

As I've come to learn, they enjoy it when you RP as a mercenary too them, which makes them come out of their shells a bit.
I would happily do this every time, but the only problem is the longer I keep you alive, the sooner the Judge 8-eagle'd gank squad will come in to put a lonely Heavy Fighter out of commission.

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[Duvelske]

btw might be me but doesn't the faction have a faction feedback topic? as the topic title even suggests only bad things of the group.

Ok im not pleased about them when they see me on a nomad ship, that they instantly dock and relog. but its their choice. But its with every faction people have a view about each faction. Some are good some are wrong. Like some factions are so called PVP factions. But if you are a member of one you notice that this is not true. I would say give the Judges a chance. No one is above someone else. Like i stated on another topic a while back. I would have seen them rather within gallia bringing good activity there then camping around newark. But then again the goal what a judge stated earlier about an X amount of active members would be more hard to be reached then.

Some might agree with me others not. But i think its mostly clear now this topic and for me it would have gotten a lock and place it on faction feedback. but who am i to state it? (Or to Judge it? *smile* )

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User was banned for: Permbanned
Time left: (Permanent)

[Evo]

Check their feedback thread. God knows they don't.

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[SummerMcLovin]

We never hid the fact that some Judges were in fact Admins from another defunct server. We simply never talked about it.

Like I said, it didn't seem like much of a problem to me. However, just a couple of comments from Tonto/Cutter and what I've seen from PMs etc. seemed like effort was being made to avoid it being out in the open.

of a universe just as rowdy and factionist as this one.

So it was set somewhere other than our Discovery universe, the 'RAW lore' as it may be, that's no problem then. I assumed it was appeasement as you said; the confusion was from a perspective of where you are on this server's story. A nice story where it could make sense though, as I and Jamie said.
That does pose another problem/explanation, with what would be a fairly good "Sirius Police" faction story that unfortunately doesn't fit into our own canonical lore, hence the integration problems.

We do in fact train our people as you said...

As Echo said, do they really need to know that, instead of leaving it inRP? Even then, I don't see many players queuing up to receive a lecture or give questions on these topics for it to be needed.
This again is my point. Despite likely being unintentional (and optional once inside), you are taking new players almost out the general server environment and morphing them into Judges. What seems to be not-so-great PvP tips (not something I see as too important, again), "how to RP", law, order and justice would be the sort of lessons that don't greatly help form a well-rounded Disco-er.

You are not your Judge characters. Stop acting like you are them. And stop acting like every negative comment about the Judges (characters and faction) are personal insults against your person.

This also has at least some merit.

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Kingdom of Bretonia
Colonial Republic
Independent Miners Guild
Ex-Admin

[Judge Logan]

Echo 7-7
It's the same content as on your faction page, so it doesn't really help. Aeternus Doleo raises some very good points that I would like to see your responses to (as in you, Logan, not you the Judges). http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread...pid1335861

Judge Yohance appears to have brushed aside the key criticisms here. In short, it's entirely inappropriate to insert yourselves into Discovery lore just because there are blank spaces there. The Wiki does not contain all elements of lore that are considered canonical, simply because there is a lot of content to cover and the Wiki is a player-driven effort. In particular, Aeternus is referencing the Liberty Overview document that the original Freelancer developers used. I have a copy of it too but I'm not sure where to find it online.

You teach abstract concepts for a roleplay space simulator game? It sounds to me as if you've missed the forest for the trees. Also, from comments I've seen, you need to start looking outside your own faction for PvP coaches. Additionally, RP can't really be taught - it is learned through practice.

Reply: Senior Judge Yohance is handling the lore issue on the thread you have indicated. He is doing his best to incorporate all Canonical issues. Interesting enough, the Liberty Overview document you reference came out some three months before Freelancer was released in 2003, and was not completely incorporated even into that release. However as I said, he is handling the issue.
As for PvP, we are using others as much as possible for training and have been for about a month. As for RP, you are incorrect. It can be taught just like acting can be taught. You are right in that through practice one gets better.

Crackpunch
(05-06-2013 07:26 PM)Judge Logan Wrote: We even taught Law, but frankly I removed that from the agenda a while back since there was no practical point to it.
As in house laws? They'd be the most important of all the things you 'taught'.

Reply: At least in Liberty I was rather testily told by multiple LPI and LN/LNS players that the “Law” was their business exclusively. Therefore Judge training in it ceased. As we migrating now, we may revisit this item outside of Liberty.

SothaSil
(05-06-2013 08:52 PM)Tonto1911 Wrote: Thank you sir, we dug this hole ourselves. I feel its time we stop digging.

I've been following this thread for a while when I realized something another problem you folks have. You have a problem to differentiate.

You act like you actually were those Judges you're roleplaying.

No.

You are not your Judge characters. Stop acting like you are them. And stop acting like every negative comment about the Judges (characters and faction) are personal insults against your person.

Reply: Actually SothaSil your statement is not applicable. You have no idea who and what we are in real life, anymore than I have any idea of who and what you are. Senior Judge Cutter did a good thing and I gave him justified praise for his efforts. I used his title because whatever you may think of us, he earned it. Again for us only, we do not hand out titles like candy from a dish on the table. Finally, he is a young man and I am a very old man and he knows this. His use of the term “sir” was simple honorific of politeness from a young man to a very old one.

SummerMcLovin
(05-06-2013 07:26 PM)Judge Logan Wrote: of a universe just as rowdy and factionist as this one.

So it was set somewhere other than our Discovery universe, the 'RAW lore' as it may be, that's no problem then. I assumed it was appeasement as you said; the confusion was from a perspective of where you are on this server's story. A nice story where it could make sense though, as I and Jamie said.

That does pose another problem/explanation, with what would be a fairly good "Sirius Police" faction story that unfortunately doesn't fit into our own canonical lore, hence the integration problems.

Reply: Might make a nice story indeed and your idea has set off some thoughts there. Thanks. One issue might be a problem is that many seem married to the “Canonical Lore” like it was holy writ come down from some mountain top. I have actually read it, every page on wiki or the forums about the history of Disco. Part of it is ripping good writing. Part of it would bore a dead man. Huge holes you fly a 747 through exist in some areas. Some areas are so tight that no possibility of change exists.

RAW “lore” was almost non-existent as far as I recall. Folks did some writing, some very good, some not so. It was much more free-wheeling and not wedded to the past. We had only 9 laws, which would fit on a half page of paper. Here I go to page 17, Section 8, subsection 8.3 paragraph 2 to find something that another player will tell me is not so, or I am reading wrong, or whatever. It can be frustrating. However, I do understand that what is, is.

(05-06-2013 07:26 PM)Judge Logan Wrote: We do in fact train our people as you said...
As Echo said, do they really need to know that, instead of leaving it in RP? Even then, I don't see many players queuing up to receive a lecture or give questions on these topics for it to be needed.

This again is my point. Despite likely being unintentional (and optional once inside), you are taking new players almost out the general server environment and morphing them into Judges. What seems to be not-so-great PvP tips (not something I see as too important, again), "how to RP", law, order and justice would be the sort of lessons that don't greatly help form a well-rounded Disco-er.

Reply: Yes, they do. Can you define Honor?....or Ethics?... Oh I hear daily “You have no Honor” from some player, but does he have the least sense of what he is saying? Can you define Justice? Do you know it when you see it? Does Justice have anything to do with Honor? If so, what? Judge players are taught these things and not one has said it was not worthwhile. They can see other player’s actions more clearly and react accordingly. Ask a few of them ingame if you like.

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[Echo 7-7]

For the love of all that's holy, please start using the quotation forum code. It will make your posts much more readable.

At least in Liberty I was rather testily told by multiple LPI and LN/LNS players that the “Law” was their business exclusively. Therefore Judge training in it ceased. As we migrating now, we may revisit this item outside of Liberty.

Well, given that your faction is an organised collection of Freelancers, the only business the "Judicial Order" has with the Laws of Liberty is the business of reading it and abiding by it.

I have actually read it, every page on wiki or the forums about the history of Disco. Part of it is ripping good writing. Part of it would bore a dead man. Huge holes you fly a 747 through exist in some areas. Some areas are so tight that no possibility of change exists.

Holes or not, you still can't fill your faction into them. Your faction's actual history should start from 801 AS; any earlier and you are stepping in on a combination of vanilla lore and added Discovery lore. If you begin after 801 AS, then you have an essentially clean slate to work with.

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There was a sig here, once.

[SothaSil]

So there I was, in Cali, on my Bayonet, just to see around 8 LNS/LSF ships ganking a Scyclla and Cutlass, four Judges assissting them. After they went down, they went on me. All of them.
Please, get off this server, Judges, it will be a better place without you.

[Judge Logan]

And last week when you and four other LR to include a Dessie ambushed a lone Judge trying to negotiate with you, one who had not even opened fire, that was not a "gank" either, right? Your whining is tiresome.

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[sindroms]

Don't worry, it is VERY easy to piss off SothaSil. Mostly it involves Xenos.

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PSA: If you have been having stutter/FPS lag on Disco where it does not run as smoothly as other games, please look at the fix here: https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthrea...pid2306502
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[Sabru]

Well, from what I've seen throughout this discussion I can say my opinion of the Judges has definitely lowered.

Constructive criticism, however backhanded it may be, is only constructive if you don't argue with or deny any opinions put forward.

Ash makes a lot of sense here. My view of the judges is low from what i've seen both ingame and on the forum

I tired Rping with them awhile back. Would have been easier Rping with NPC's.

RPing with NPCs being easier, Hjolda thats funny.

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