Open up the nomads. Give them to the pew pew crowd.

[Tinitus]

Ok Ima have a shot at answering the question, cause you asked several times.

The question was:

So? What more you want? The faction is ready and waiting for you but the thing is those of you that really want to be nomads ...for unknown reasons dont want to join the already existing faction. This is not [Random] faction which have ranks and restrictions to caps for example, you have access to all ships if you are approved that is why there is no need for indie caps like all other factions. What then?

To answer this truthfully and constructively, I'm gonna have to say a few things some people will not like to read. These things concern not only the nomads or "restricted access nonrestricted ZOI and engagement" factions, but also about a few things around here in general.

First of all, to answer the question directly: "What (more) do you want?"

Bluntly, I want to be able to enjoy this game without it being left to the whims of certain individuals to arbitrarilly decide who can do stuff and who cant.

Part of that is to let a very central vanilla faction of the Freelancer storyline (I'm talking about vanilla factions, not factions that were invented by players) be accessible to all players equally, without few individuals deciding who gets the goodies and who doesn't.

Now... why do I want that?

The first reason is that I don't think that the way it is now is generally a good and fun way to play a game. People will manipulate and scheme to gain the favor of who ever makes the decisions, while making sure that others dont gain the same favors. They will profile themselves like the super never-ganking pro-RPer and try to make everyone else look like a ganking "lolwhut". This thread is full of that already.

The second reason for why don't I, or many others, just accept to submit to judgement by certain indivuals and ask them if I can please become a nomad? Why don't I try to join them, even if I want to play as nomad, and even if I probably could if I asked?

Now the next thing I'm going to say isn't directed at the person who asked or HuggiSunrise or who ever is leading the nomads at the moment. I don't know those two, I dont remember meeting them ingame.

The reason I don't want to become an "exclusive club member", is because I have seen how many "exclusive club members" behave towards other players, on countless occasions.

I've seen them fly ships that cant be killed because of their agility and shield, fly to an enemy system and a system owning capitol ship, fly loops around it, and then badmouth the player in the battleship simply because he had the audacity to shoot at their unkillable ships.

I've seen them attack defenseless unskilled enemies in weak ships in their better ships, better skill, and greater numbers, and then complain in pm when the enemies got help during the fight.

I've seen nomad members actively help other nomad ships while they were on ships which should have been enemies to the nomads and allied to the ships that they were helping them against.

I've seen them call me "useless person" because although I was slowly winning a fight against them, I wasnt able to make it a quick kill because the nomad had given up trying to kill me and was now just dodging fire for 20 minutes.

I've seen them tell me "learn your place, whelp" (by a guy who was 20 years younger than me) because I dared to attack him 1 on 1 and dared to kill him.

I've seen a nomad marduk shoot my morph, without a word, simply because he was in an official marduk and I was in a lowly morph.

I've seen them prolong for an unbelievable amount of time an absurd system that forced morphs to fly an OORP setup of nomad ship with human guns, in human systems, without being able to dock on nomad bases. Not because anyone could seriously think that this helped the RP or the game in any way, but simply because it satisfied certain people's sense of entitlement.

I've seen them repeat the same bogus arguments about how nomads have to be overpowered and all over Sirius and therefore had to be restricted, as if it was impossible to simply change some stats on the ships and give them a limited ZOI. Not because it helped the game or RP in any way, but again only because of their own sense of entitlement.

Now...

I know that people who behave like that will always exist.

I just think that handing out "you are officially a superior player and deserve more than others" status makes things worse instead of better.

And I also wanted to explain why I, personally, and a few others, dont want to be in the club, and not even on the club's side, for as long as the club keeps its "we are better than others" form.

You asked...

[Daedric]

First of all, to answer the question directly: "What (more) do you want?"

Bluntly, I want to be able to enjoy this game without it being left to the whims of certain individuals to arbitrarilly decide who can do stuff and who cant.

Part of that is to let a very central vanilla faction of the Freelancer storyline (I'm talking about vanilla factions, not factions that were invented by players) be accessible to all players equally, without few individuals deciding who gets the goodies and who doesn't.

The K'Hara are accessible just as equally to me as they are to you.

Now... why do I want that?

The first reason is that I don't think that the way it is now is generally a good and fun way to play a game. People will manipulate and scheme to gain the favor of who ever makes the decisions, while making sure that others dont gain the same favors. They will profile themselves like the super never-ganking pro-RPer and try to make everyone else look like a ganking "lolwhut". This thread is full of that already.

That is human nature. You can't avoid it - you can only try to prevent it. The system in place now is in place to prevent a bunch of idiots from grabbing some of the best stuff in game and going on a pew pew spree for the fun of it. Is the system perfect? No. Is it better than what you've suggested? Yes, as I've not seen you suggest a better system.

The second reason for why don't I, or many others, just accept to submit to judgement by certain indivuals and ask them if I can please become a nomad? Why don't I try to join them, even if I want to play as nomad, and even if I probably could if I asked?

You don't have to submit to anyone to become a Nomad. You merely have to demonstrate that you understand the role play of the K'Hara faction and show that you are willing to role play it as lined out by the people who made the K'Hara faction possible.

Now the next thing I'm going to say isn't directed at the person who asked or HuggiSunrise or who ever is leading the nomads at the moment. I don't know those two, I dont remember meeting them ingame.

The reason I don't want to become an "exclusive club member", is because I have seen how many "exclusive club members" behave towards other players, on countless occasions.

I've seen them fly ships that cant be killed because of their agility and shield, fly to an enemy system and a system owning capitol ship, fly loops around it, and then badmouth the player in the battleship simply because he had the audacity to shoot at their unkillable ships.

I've seen them attack defenseless unskilled enemies in weak ships in their better ships, better skill, and greater numbers, and then complain in pm when the enemies got help during the fight.

I've seen nomad members actively help other nomad ships while they were on ships which should have been enemies to the nomads and allied to the ships that they were helping them against.

I've seen them call me "useless person" because although I was slowly winning a fight against them, I wasnt able to make it a quick kill because the nomad had given up trying to kill me and was now just dodging fire for 20 minutes.

I've seen them tell me "learn your place, whelp" (by a guy who was 20 years younger than me) because I dared to attack him 1 on 1 and dared to kill him.

I've seen a nomad marduk shoot my morph, without a word, simply because he was in an official marduk and I was in a lowly morph.

I've seen them prolong for an unbelievable amount of time an absurd system that forced morphs to fly an OORP setup of nomad ship with human guns, in human systems, without being able to dock on nomad bases. Not because anyone could seriously think that this helped the RP or the game in any way, but simply because it satisfied certain people's sense of entitlement.

I've seen them repeat the same bogus arguments about how nomads have to be overpowered and all over Sirius and therefore had to be restricted, as if it was impossible to simply change some stats on the ships and give them a limited ZOI. Not because it helped the game or RP in any way, but again only because of their own sense of entitlement.

Blah blah blah. I've seen them do the same too. I've seen the [LN], CR, blah blah faction faction - every faction has its ups and downs and its good and bad members. You seem only focused on the negative interactions you've had with them. Have you ever bothered to PM the leader of the K'Hara faction regarding any of these issues? Doubtful as you've admitted you don't know the leader is.

Now...

I know that people who behave like that will always exist.

I just think that handing out "you are officially a superior player and deserve more than others" status makes things worse instead of better.

And I also wanted to explain why I, personally, and a few others, dont want to be in the club, and not even on the club's side, for as long as the club keeps its "we are better than others" form.

You asked...

Official status doesn't mean you're officially superior player and deserve more than others. It means you're going to be held to a higher standard than everyone else - don't mess up.

Is that always the case? No - official factions have gotten away with things before. Reporting and bringing issues up to the leadership/administration is how you get them taken care of.

I'm not sure if Phoenix still leads the K'Hara, but I can promise you he doesn't have the kind of attitude you are describing. Nor do many of the members that I know. I know that because many of them are also in factions I lead or in factions I play in.

You're issue seems more that you're hung up on encounters you didn't like and refuse to acknowledge that those are in the minority. Instead of trying to work with the system in place - you want it removed because you don't like it. Guess what? The server doesn't cater to your wants and desires - it caters to the wants and desires of the community. I'd wager the majority of this community doesn't want the K'Hara being open because it would lead to a server full of squids who've no clue regarding Nomad lore and pew pew all red.

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[Altaris]

Part of that is to let a very central vanilla faction of the Freelancer storyline (I'm talking about vanilla factions, not factions that were invented by players) be accessible to all players equally, without few individuals deciding who gets the goodies and who doesn't.

Maybe you heard this already somewhere across this forums, but in case you did not, im gonna refresh your memory.

Discovery <strike>is vanilla server so you are totally right about that</strike>

The first reason is that I don't think that the way it is now is generally a good and fun way to play a game.

I honestly dont know how can not being able to fly nomie ships ruin the game. Go play Gallia or what...

The second reason for why don't I, or many others, just accept to submit to judgement by certain indivuals and ask them if I can please become a nomad? Why don't I try to join them, even if I want to play as nomad, and even if I probably could if I asked?

Because if there weren't those 'certain individuals', there wouldnt be any nomad faction, or nomad access at all? Have you at least seen the lore? The love and the time that was sacrificed into it? Would you be willing to create such document and thus Disco nomad basis in order to achieve opening the nomads? Doubtfully though im not underestimating anyone...

The reason I don't want to become an "exclusive club member", is because I have seen how many "exclusive club members" behave towards other players, on countless occasions.

Its not about becoming a member of "exclusive club", but about proving yourself your worthy to gain Terrorist ID. (aR Peeee wise, like im repeating myself... mmm strange deja vu...)

I've seen nomad members actively help other nomad ships while they were on ships which should have been enemies to the nomads and allied to the ships that they were helping them against.

If you really read that lore, oh wise one, you'd know that there are (or at least were) ones called Spectres? Oracles? Nothing? Really?
RP aspects, stories... but you wouldn't know now would you...?

I've seen them call me "useless person" because although I was slowly winning a fight against them, I wasnt able to make it a quick kill because the nomad had given up trying to kill me and was now just dodging fire for 20 minutes.

I've seen them tell me "learn your place, whelp" (by a guy who was 20 years younger than me) because I dared to attack him 1 on 1 and dared to kill him.

I've seen a nomad marduk shoot my morph, without a word, simply because he was in an official marduk and I was in a lowly morph.

I've seen them prolong for an unbelievable amount of time an absurd system that forced morphs to fly an OORP setup of nomad ship with human guns, in human systems, without being able to dock on nomad bases. Not because anyone could seriously think that this helped the RP or the game in any way, but simply because it satisfied certain people's sense of entitlement.

You've seen you've seen you've seen (...joined 24-march 2012...) You've seen quite enough really. Pics pics pics? I've seen many things too. Though cant really prove anything of those is true.

"...forced morphs to fly an OORP setup..."

This is because morph were never meant to have any weapons at all.
Nomad ZIO was always across entire sirius.

"I've seen a nomad marduk shoot my morph, without a word, simply because he was in an official marduk and I was in a lowly morph."

Care to tell me the name of Marduk by any means?

I just think that handing out "you are officially a superior player and deserve more than others" status makes things worse instead of better.

And I also wanted to explain why I, personally, and a few others, dont want to be in the club, and not even on the club's side, for as long as the club keeps its "we are better than others" form.

Its not about becoming a member of "exclusive club", but about proving yourself your worthy to gain Terrorist ID. (aR Peeee wise, like im repeating myself... mmm strange deja vu...)

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Carnage itself flying within void...
Proud cardihead ever since 2008...
You all gonna eat cardi!

...also im a troll, so hate me.

[Gytrash]

Ah, the nomads, my most favourite of the "Elite" factions

How my time role playing with you has been filled with happy moments and long dialogues to the satisfaction of both parties, Assuredly one could never accuse you of using the deplorable /l1 /l2 *pewpewpew* method, I am sure that you merely have six hands and type at a rate of several thousand words per minute.

Ah, how your cruisers and Battleships have brightened up my day whenever I have seen them around in Gallia and Omicron Alpha, How many times I have had to cruise away instead of talking because you typed your "Prepare to Die" (Note translated from nomaddish) far too early, in fact as soon as you saw me on the scanners. In fact my entire experience with the Keepers and the K'Hara can be summarized thusly:

Gytrash: *Thought* Ahha! A Keeper/Nomad/Official Faction Member in a battleship!! They are a group that pride themselvesw on their great RP. I think that I could learn a valuable lesson from them, Maybe I should stop and role play with them for a while.
Yggdrasil: ***Engagabug all unarmed transport whut I see***
Gytrash: Oh dear me. Perhaps I will have better luck next time, maybe they are just in a rush and need to head off.

Gytrash: *Upon resighting said Yggdrasil later on* Ahha! Maybe he will have time for role play now, Better head over and make the appropriate RP leanings.
Church: Well, It's this vessel again, What a strange design, I shall attempt to make contact again.
Church: ***Open Comms*** This is James Church hailing Unidentified Vessel. Unidentified... Glowing purple ship... Thingy... Can you read me?
Yggdrasil: ***Engagabug all unarmed transport whut I see***
Gytrash: Hmm, whenever I see this person I get the same message... Maybe it's Timezones? I'll try again later.

Gytrash: *Upon sighting a Nomad Cruiser (Name forgotten)
Gytrash: Hrmmm, this is a different vessel, Maybe I will have better luck.
Church: Hmm, This seems to be a vessel in a similar vein to the one that I saw earlier, perhaps they are related.
Church: ***Open Comm*** This is James Church hailing Unidentified purple vessel, Unidentified Vessel can you read me?
Nom Cruiser: ***Engagabugubuggle all zoner whale whut I see***
Gytrash: Is this really the "Great" role play that I would expect from a faction that constantly bemoans what a weighty responsibility it is to bear the burden of the free engagement and states consistently that their role play is of a high calibre? Hrmmm, Maybe I'll just cruise away next time...

Gytrash: *Upon sighting a Nomad Bomber.* I'll give it one last shot...
Church: Still another of these strange vessels, Scanners register them as organic... Maybe I should be addressing the vessel?
Church: ***Open Comm*** This is James Church hailing Unidentified Life form, Unidentified life form, please respond.
Nomad bomber: ***(Confusion)--Dark...one...***
Gytrash: Well this is promising.
Yggdrasil: ***Engagabug***
Gytrash:

Gytrash: You know what, Screw it

Gytrash: Oh look, another one
Random Nomad Cruiser again: ***Engaga...
Church: Yes yes, I know, Engagabubble
Church: *Doesn't even stop cruising.*

And that last one has been pretty much the tone for the rest of my encounters with your players, So there we have it, an optimistic start crushed by the reality of the situation.

My only other contact with "Elite" factions has in fact been several rather lengthy and role play heavy situations that I found myself in with the Phantoms, specifically one called Puzzle who hovered around in New York a few years ago, Whoever you were I salute you sir, You took a free license to kill with minimum role play and went out and had lengthy and probably quite painful RP sessions with someone who was still a massive beginner at Discovery and the whole idea of RP in general, He, not the Keepers, has been set as my ideal of role play, My goal if you wish, is to one day be able to give other people as much joy as I had role playing with him.

To my great dismay when I finally got back to discovery the Phantoms had disbanded, I know not why but there we have it. I never got to role play much with any others of that faction but every single one of my encounters with them has been to the highest standards of role play, to this day, not speak ill of the Phantoms, besides them stealing those ships... and their recruitment...

I would like to say good things about the Keepers and the K'Hara but to be honest, I haven't been given anything positive to base my praise off. Oh sure you spruik your role play abilities and hold your little noses high and pat yourselves on the back and say

"Oh look what fine fellows we are. So much better than that common rabble that we have to interact with on a daily basis. Our sense of role play is much more refined and cultured than theirs. Now let us log onto our characters and show them how the "Elite Role Players" of this server live up to that title!"

And then you encounter people like me, people who expect more of "Elite" role players than to merely type out a wordy /setmsg and then hit /l1 /l2 maybe even /l3 if I am lucky and then open fire. I would expect you to stick around and role play with me, not take me killing my cruise engines to talk to you as an open invitation to fire, I stop because I know how hard it is to type out those messages. Maybe that is the problem, the people who join the Keepers/K'hara cannot type fast enough in the strange riddle/psychic speak that is required of them and therefore feel that I would mock them for slow typing speeds.

Fear not! I will never mock you for taking a long time to write out your responses to my messages, I will not deride you for taking the time to role play and role play well with me. I will never cut short our talks unless something urgent comes up, such as a real life emergency or one of my friends needing me in which case I will make my apologies and leave, you may then blow me up if you wish.

I will not, however, sit still and let you say that your role play is "Special" and that independent players with a mandate to have some different role play to you will "Tarnish" your reputation for being great role players. If I recall correctly, the most common response to my questions on skypelancer as to "How do I engage in role play with a nomad that satisfies both parties is this:

"You don't, cruise away before they shoot you."

So therefore, make this ID avaliable to the server populace, allow them to ahve their fun, I assure you that if they are only able to fly light fighters they will either be soon bored of it or allow peace to be made between factions who are only squabbling for lack of anything else to do.

I, for example, am part of the Omicron Supply Industries company and am a Freeport Administrator in the Confederation of Souther Freeports. We Zoners do have on our ID stated as able to attack faction enemies, so far this is. Nomads. Wilde. So far I have not seen any Wilde and the Keepers/K'hara have just been disappointing, being enemies does not preclude all RP.


And for those of you who were reacting to this post in the following manner:


I personally support the idea of the original poster, my god it's been so far from the front page I can't even remember his name, give Zoners something to shoot at and give factions less reason to squabble/ruleslawyer.

Keepers/K'hara who keep patting themselves on the back about their role play, ಠ_ಠ

[Mal Reynolds]

You don't really have much of their role play if you just see one nomad a year...

[Gytrash]

Ah Ah ah!
Careful about making generalisations, I did not say that that was the extent of my interactions with the keepers, I have in fact had interactions over the years with about 20 different vessels and many dozens of individual encounters. It is just that apart from one morph who role played with me, the majority of my role play with the nomads has gone, /l1 /l2, maybe even /l3 *pewpewpew* Unless they can type at about... 34 words per second, in that case they are just better typists than me and I bow to their superior neural interface with their keyboard.

[alphadog]

Oh look. After 16 pages, this thread -finally- managed to fall down to ordinary keeper/k'hara bashing. Note that is nowhere near a k'hara feedback thread. It was about making the nomads a public faction.

The Keeper leadership tried to make that work. They submitted a proposal to the admins, to be never heard of again. Why dont you focus this discussion about that, instead of commenting on the level of RP the k'hara players give. That is completely irrelevant here.

It is NOT the Nomad Player Faction that is holding the public nomads back. The Admins don't want it.

[lw'nafh]

But the Nomads can already blow you up with little warning or 'roleplay'.

Which is nothing more than stylised gibberish.

EDIT: Also, inb4 the 'bashing keeper lol' stuff.

I'm <strike>not</strike> bashing the Keepers, but I'd still rather they were the way they are now, than totally open.

At least you have to so SOME form of competence as it stands, to get privilege of blowing people up in the method mentioned above.

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вellυм ѕe ιpѕυм aleт

[Pingu!]

Seems this thread just can't die. If there even was something smart smart, it was said in first few pages, everything other is random blabing and QQing.
As John said, it's Admins that don't want 'open noms', since they went silent about that topic, after proposal for open nomads was sent to them. And to be honest, I doubt one random QQ thread will change their mind.

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But you either follow our rules here and work with us - or STFU and GTFO.

[jakub963]

Its really weird how both sides of the fence are throwing accusations all around about lacking RP this and thats but take note that feedback threads are made for this. So unless names of wrongdoers start to appear in those there is little to nothing what can be done. So i hereby propose that unless somebody cannot at least point a finger at ingame name, then he have no right to comment said person behaviour since there is no way to correct or even check it.
Ps.: Gy. You make Lyra cry. Dont generalize that much.

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