police vs Pirates

[Spear]

globalplayer-svk you were told to stop, you did not. You were told you were being placed on KoS list and you undocked. You were killed by about 5 LSF in orbit of Manhattan. The fact you are a smuggler who can dock on a lawful planet after being caught is poor RP, so is buying passenger and sudeenly expecting not to get shot.

Comparing pirating a trader in a Battleship to being shot by a lawful Battleship when you are a wanted man is not the same at all. Sniper is right though, theres one hell of alot of whiny people about. You want to Rp a smuggler thats fine, but dont burst into tears when you get caught.

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=LSF=

[Juan_Arquero]

I had a similar problem with a member of SA while playing my Juan_Williams character. I left the West Point trade lane near Newark Station. My only cargo was several bounty hunter pilots (5-7, I think). As soon as I left the trade lane, I saw two BHG NPCs nearby, so I killed them (taking me to 7-9 bounty hunter pilots). While I was fighting them, I saw that my shields were going down fast, indicating that I was being attacked by another player. I checked my radar and saw that a member of SA was nearby, but he had said nothing. As fast as I could, I moored at Planet Manhattan. During my escape, the SA said to halt, but as far as I was concerned he was already attacking me without justification, so I saw no legal reason for him to stop me. I argued with him after I was on Planet Manhattan. He justified his attack because I had a smuggler ID, but I had NO contraband and he never told me to drop anything (including the bounty hunter pilots which were my only cargo). He claimed that he had the right to attack me, because I was red to him (even though he was green to me), because he was hostile to the Junkers (Juan_Williams' tag). SA is supposed to represent the Liberty Navy, which should be neutral with the Junkers. I've never seen the NPC Liberty Navy attacking Junkers unless the Junkers were caught with contraband, so the SA shouldn't be attacking Junkers who aren't carrying contraband. As a result of the Gestapo tactics that SA is using, I've concluded that SA doesn't mean Southern Alliance. SA is obviously a reference to the Sturmabteilungen (Stormtroops or SA), also known as the Nazi "brown-shirt" militia. I'll just start referring to the SA as the Nazi brown shirts.

Just in case, the reasons for my objections aren't clear... Attacking a smuggler who isn't carrying any contraband is the Freelancer equivalent of the real world police creating a roadblock, so that they execute anybody found to have a criminal record.:rtfm:

As for the LSF officer who killed all those passengers, he is a war criminal who should be hunted down by all factions without mercy.:nono:

[SimonBlack]

I had a similar problem with a member of SA while playing my Juan_Williams character. I left the West Point trade lane near Newark Station. My only cargo was several bounty hunter pilots (5-7, I think). As soon as I left the trade lane, I saw two BHG NPCs nearby, so I killed them (taking me to 7-9 bounty hunter pilots). While I was fighting them, I saw that my shields were going down fast, indicating that I was being attacked by another player. I checked my radar and saw that a member of SA was nearby, but he had said nothing. As fast as I could, I moored at Planet Manhattan. During my escape, the SA said to halt, but as far as I was concerned he was already attacking me without justification, so I saw no legal reason for him to stop me. I argued with him after I was on Planet Manhattan. He justified his attack because I had a smuggler ID, but I had NO contraband and he never told me to drop anything (including the bounty hunter pilots which were my only cargo). He claimed that he had the right to attack me, because I was red to him (even though he was green to me), because he was hostile to the Junkers (Juan_Williams' tag). SA is supposed to represent the Liberty Navy, which should be neutral with the Junkers. I've never seen the NPC Liberty Navy attacking Junkers unless the Junkers were caught with contraband, so the SA shouldn't be attacking Junkers who aren't carrying contraband. As a result of the Gestapo tactics that SA is using, I've concluded that SA doesn't mean Southern Alliance. SA is obviously a reference to the Sturmabteilungen (Stormtroops or SA), also known as the Nazi "brown-shirt" militia. I'll just start referring to the SA as the Nazi brown shirts.

Just in case, the reasons for my objections aren't clear... Attacking a smuggler who isn't carrying any contraband is the Freelancer equivalent of the real world police creating a roadblock, so that they execute anybody found to have a criminal record.:rtfm:

As for the LSF officer who killed all those passengers, he is a war criminal who should be hunted down by all factions without mercy.:nono:

Kind of agree with you... but this situation is a bit different...

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Character background summaries:
Red Hessians Major Matthias Schwarz
Golden Chrysanthemums Chusa Fumiko Shimazu

[Jinx]

allthough i allready wrote that it was murder to kill a transport with passngers ( in a roleplaysense ) - its questionable if a cargohold full of people can be used as hostages - or even 100 people and the rest cardamine.

would a police / navy destroy a transport with 100 innocent people just cause the rest of the cargo is cardamine?

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[greasemunky]

I think that if a smuggler is carrying slaves that they would be asked to drop their cargo.

also on the matter of police battleships, there should be one Liberty battleship, being smallest ones.

[uspatriotsf]

Police/Military can use Battleships to stop pirates/smugglers, just to go back to the original question. A pirate hunts down people to tax, a lawful stops pirates they happen to come across. It's a matter of intent. This is one of those fair play situations.

As far as the issue with the LSF destroying the ship with passengers aboard... Well, that would be completely open to interpretation. First off, the police down on Manhattan would surely have been made aware that this criminal would be docked there. So, who would board this probably publicly wanted man's ship. Good upstanding citizens of Manhattan? I doubt it. It would stand to reason that the passengers themselves would be, at the very least, shady individuals themselves. Not to mention the fact that a portion of the cargo survives when the ship is destroyed... So minimal collateral damage is accepted in order to bring the criminal to justice.

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<span style="color:#FF0000"><strike>RETIRED</strike></span>
ON MY WAY OUT OF RETIREMENT

DO NOT CLICK HERE

[Spear]

I had a similar problem with a member of SA while playing my Juan_Williams character. I left the West Point trade lane near Newark Station. My only cargo was several bounty hunter pilots (5-7, I think). As soon as I left the trade lane, I saw two BHG NPCs nearby, so I killed them (taking me to 7-9 bounty hunter pilots). While I was fighting them, I saw that my shields were going down fast, indicating that I was being attacked by another player. I checked my radar and saw that a member of SA was nearby, but he had said nothing. As fast as I could, I moored at Planet Manhattan. During my escape, the SA said to halt, but as far as I was concerned he was already attacking me without justification, so I saw no legal reason for him to stop me. I argued with him after I was on Planet Manhattan. He justified his attack because I had a smuggler ID, but I had NO contraband and he never told me to drop anything (including the bounty hunter pilots which were my only cargo). He claimed that he had the right to attack me, because I was red to him (even though he was green to me), because he was hostile to the Junkers (Juan_Williams' tag). SA is supposed to represent the Liberty Navy, which should be neutral with the Junkers. I've never seen the NPC Liberty Navy attacking Junkers unless the Junkers were caught with contraband, so the SA shouldn't be attacking Junkers who aren't carrying contraband. As a result of the Gestapo tactics that SA is using, I've concluded that SA doesn't mean Southern Alliance. SA is obviously a reference to the Sturmabteilungen (Stormtroops or SA), also known as the Nazi "brown-shirt" militia. I'll just start referring to the SA as the Nazi brown shirts.

Just in case, the reasons for my objections aren't clear... Attacking a smuggler who isn't carrying any contraband is the Freelancer equivalent of the real world police creating a roadblock, so that they execute anybody found to have a criminal record.:rtfm:

As for the LSF officer who killed all those passengers, he is a war criminal who should be hunted down by all factions without mercy.:nono:

While I agree Smuggler ID players should not be attacked with no illegal cargo on board unless they have been put on a KoS list. I got to disagree with your other comments.

I see any pilot killing Bounty Hunter NPC's in Liberty I will engage him. Some RP first would be good but dont expect to be commiting murder of lawfuls under the navy's nose.

The Smuggler who was killed speed docked on Manhattan and was told to stop numerous times and was warned he was KoS. Yet he undocks with a hold full of passengers and expects to just waltz past 5 LSF ships? I do not think so! I Rp'd the passengers pick up after the vessels destruction.

To be honest smugglers want it all their own way, if they are caught some stop and pay the fine with good RP but most run then speed dock on what should now be a hostile base to them as the law is on their tail. Then they undock and cry when they get killed even when they are clearly told this is what will happen. Good work!

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=LSF=

[globalplayer-svk]

spear only one question,has someone from you scan my cargo? what was i carrying? i think no because closest member from lsf was 2,7 k from me.and yes i was ordered to stop,but yesterday i was attacked by lsf pilot without any word,so you think that i can trust lsf?no i can not.and poor rp?i am trader,when i have no contraband on board i am legal trader,and i was not stopped with contraband on board.and on KoS list?how can be trader on KoS?when you kill trader without word you are terrorist,not police or military. and when i come to liberty with legal cargo what reason you have to kill me without word?only reason that i escape?when you mean this so,then after one or two weeks will noone bring contraband to liberty and your only work is shoot npc,because all smugglers will be on KoS list.and when this make bretonia police,kusari police and rheinland police,then i think smuggler id can be deleted because who will try to smuggle when all plice or military faction will try to kill him as terrorist or what?
and yes,i load the passengers only to see,if are more important for military thousand of humans lives or destroy one trader ship.and i see that human lives are not important,so who is now bad?

maybe i am wrong,but this is only my opinion

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[Daniel_Feenix]

EDIT: Ok, one idea after all -- if the smuggler already unloaded his cargo, he could say that he's not carrying anything illegal and therefore you have no evidence and no right to shoot at him. (So he's escaped as soon as he docked with a base and sold the contraband.)

While the smuggler could make that claim; it shouldn't be made a rule as not all officers of the law would care about the lack of evidence.

I think that if a smuggler is carrying slaves that they would be asked to drop their cargo.

That happened to me while I was flying the Utopia once; RM cornered me and had me release the slaves that were in my cargo hold, I was going to make an RP post about losing a shipment but I guess I forgot.

[SimonBlack]

Yea you're right. The smuggler would have been captured by police (or maybe even millitary, which is way cooler) officers as soon as he opens the door of his ship. So in a way the smuggler signed his own death when docking with the planet. And if the rescue effort was Rped, thats great. Sounds like the person had to choose between colleatelal damage and justice, thats hard choice. Love the feel of responsibility.

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Character background summaries:
Red Hessians Major Matthias Schwarz
Golden Chrysanthemums Chusa Fumiko Shimazu