' Wrote:Then....where is the list?
What defines contraband?
What it says on the SCRA ID. That is what cargo they can demand.
On another note, Felix and I were both commenting on how we think it is a bit strange that the SCRA's goal is to bring the People's Revolution to the Houses, yet they spend a huge amount of time and energy targeting the poorest of Sirius's major groups.
Pilot carrying this ID is a member of the Coalition official player faction who:
- Can demand contraband, levy fines, and destroy ships if they refuse to comply with contraband demands, refuse to cooperate or are affiliated with a group at war with the Coalition.
- Have never lost the Havana.
- Can hunt pirates and terrorists anywhere in Sirius.
- Cannot participate in unlawful actions except as described above.
- Cannot use any transports with more than 3,600 cargo.
- This ID may only be used by the official player faction.
This is the proposed version of the ID Govedo is complaining about.
No specifics are listed.
gone four years, first day back: Zoners still getting shot in Theta :|
Wow, two new pages and I only went to shoot some stuff for a few minutes. :| Anyway.
' Wrote:If I were the SCRA (If I were a little bit taller, if I were a baller, if I had a girl, on the phone I would call her.) I would be asking for Luxury Goods, Luxury Food and VIP's to be added to your list.
And what, exactly would that accomplish? It serves no Military Objective, it's usefulness as propaganda is limited at best. Considering it would easily be turned into counter-propaganda by the houses stating we're robbing the people of their life-style and kidnapping people. If I really need to explain why this would be bad for us, then... wow.
Quote:On another note, Felix and I were both commenting on how we think it is a bit strange that the SCRA's goal is to bring the People's Revolution to the Houses, yet they spend a huge amount of time and energy targeting the poorest of Sirius's major groups.
You mean the ones that are pirates, highly aggressive, and tend to target the Civilians of the houses? I really don't see why I need to explain this either.
I'm amazed I actually have to spend so much time justifying the Economic and Strategic Value of disrupting the Artifact Trade. Not only can it double as propaganda, but we disrupt the economy of the Corsairs, and by extension disrupt its Military which helps the Coalition in its war with the Corsairs.
People seem to think we're either a Military, or Revolutionary Group. We're both. We have both Strategic Military Objectives, as well as objectives to gain the support of the people. Disrupting the Artifact Trade falls under our Military Objectives, but it can still be used as minor propaganda to gain the support of the people.
' Wrote:Wow, two new pages and I only went to shoot some stuff for a few minutes. :| Anyway.
And what, exactly would that accomplish? It serves no Military Objective, it's usefulness as propaganda is limited at best. Considering it would easily be turned into counter-propaganda by the houses stating we're robbing the people of their life-style and kidnapping people. If I really need to explain why this would be bad for us, then... wow.
You mean the ones that are pirates, highly aggressive, and tend to target the Civilians of the houses? I really don't see why I need to explain this either.
I'm amazed I actually have to spend so much time justifying the Economic and Strategic Value of disrupting the Artifact Trade. Not only can it double as propaganda, but we disrupt the economy of the Corsairs, and by extension disrupt its Military which helps the Coalition in its war with the Corsairs.
People seem to think we're either a Military, or Revolutionary Group. We're both. We have both Strategic Military Objectives, as well as objectives to gain the support of the people. Disrupting the Artifact Trade falls under our Military Objectives, but it can still be used as minor propaganda to gain the support of the people.
Yea, I don't think you know a lick about socialism or communism anymore. Toward the beginning of this interaction I thought you did, now it has become quite clear that is not the case.
Yes our ID has got a major buff, the net result of this has been that we do have people complaining over what we will do with such a buff. Simply, the same as we have done before. We are a military, not the police so we are unlikely to care if someone is smuggling Blood Diamonds. If anything, we'd actively encourage that commodity since it strengthens our allies. I believe the ID was changed to make things more simpler.
To reassure you guys as much as possible, any cargo transport or miner I have personally encountered has been allowed to continue on it's merry way. The exceptions are trespassers in Omega-52, and the .85 slaves and cardimine smugglers.
Now, if we were to start actively using this part of our ID - what would the result of this be? Well, lawful transports would still be fine. Smugglers would have a problem. Smugglers are supposed to have problems, they're unlawful after all. What would we consider contraband? Most likely, anything the major houses do. I would need to ask my guys. Saying that we would not be allowed to write such a list, Zelot, seems awfully unfair. All of the major houses and governments have a list of items they want or do not want in their house. They are able to modify the list as and when needed. If such a buff to our ID stays, I would expect that we would be allowed to control the items on that list.
"But you're outside your own space!" You may exclaim.
True, we are. However, the list would contain items which are contraband or to put it more simply - Items which have adversely affected a person/group in their construction / Items which will affect a person/group in their use. Take Counterfeit Software - An item which robs Worker Joe of a paycheque as he's not getting a cut of an official sale. Thus, major houses have it as contraband.
We are not in the business of stopping lawful traders.
I remind you, this is assuming we go out of our way to start an anti-smuggling squadron. Something I am not overly keen on. You're more likely to find us "running into you", than actively hunting you. I believe the ID was changed to reflect this to avoid sanctions.
As for the Corsair infestation, Zelot - You call the Corsairs one of the poorest groups yet in the story lore - They're assembling their fleets to take on Rheinland, Bretonia and are pushing the Hessians back. I've also seen a shift away from people on Crete being "far from starving" in an attempt to show a posture of strength. I disagree completely that the Corsairs are poor in such a way, when the story is dominated in the Omega's by Corsair expansion. Either way, the stated point of our group is the overthrow of all the major house governments of Sirius - However we must think of our own security and issues closer to home first. After all, it was not long ago that we had a debate around "The story says it's been done". I will use that here, the story says the Corsairs are expanding. We're trying to put a stop to that before Omega-52 is considered as a prime target.
I always find it interesting when factions argue to keep certain things on their IDs by arguing they wont use them. Hmmmm.
Anyways, your arguments on the Corsairs would make more sense if the conflict between the Corsairs and SCRA had any basis in RP. Or if any of the things you mentioned were happening when the Corsairs and SCRA started fighting.
Do you know why the Corsairs and SCRA started fighting?
I'll tell you a little story.
Way back at the end of 4.83 begining or 4.84, the SCRA was using the Xeno IFF, since there was not a coalition IFF. This was very confusing to noob sairs at the time, many of whom took them to be Xenos, not really a surprise because at the time ZIO restrictions were no existent. So these Corsair noobs would attack the SCRA ships thinking they were Xenos. This was well, inconvenient to say the least for the SCRA. The SCRA demanded that the official Corsair faction let them kill whoever they wanted in Gamma for whatever reason. We said no. We said if they had problems with indy sairs they should come to us to deal with it. So what happened? A particular member of the SCRA docked on Tripoli, bought an Ossie then went to Crete and filled it up with Tizzys and Coladas, (snub guns) and then declared war on the Sairs.
None of it had to do with the storyline of expansion, which didn't exist then, none of it had to do with the Sairs rping less of a dependence on the Zoners for food, since that wasnt going on then either. Basically what it boils down to was that the SCRA wanted to do whatever they wanted in Gamma and the Corsairs said no. Thus the Havana, and the fact that the SCRA had our guns for such a long time.
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