Lets improve the gameplay between the Hessians and the Corsairs

[Vito]

The Titan and Praet are perfectly fine and plenty of people can fly them effectively, but the Corsair shipline isn't noob friendly and takes time to master.

He speaks the truth and I have to disagree with Prysin about the Thor - Praetorian thing, the Praetorian is actually the best anti-cap bomber in my opinion.

The problem comes from somewhere else: like Tupac said, what might seem perfectly balanced to a good PvP'er will feel unbalanced to an average player. The same for the guns. The hessian line is primarily balanced to counter the Wraiths and Hornvipers and when they face the Corsair tech the second side has no chance. While a good player like Igor or one of his friends can put the Titan to good use and take out an average player flying an Odin, things are not the same when the roles reverse. The fact that the RHA/RF factions have some of the best PvP'ers around also adds to the issues, but it's not their fault they're good at it and balancing tech after the player-base skills will not and should not happen.

Of course, the Hessian players will come up with a simple solution to this Corsair problem: get some skills or run and hide. We tried that and we got massive Q_Q over skype about how fail we are for running. So tell me, Disco community, what should we do? The Hessians tell us to run and hide but then they complain about nobody being in O5/O41/whatever. Those systems being empty is the result of YOUR actions. I'm not judging you, I'm only saying that nobody can blame the sair player-base for hugging Prox or Fes or flying caps when they have no chance of keeping their own against the Hessian player-base.

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The Corsair Trade Company

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[Govedo13]

All that I got is:
Corsair guns got nerfed but np.
Corsair guns types and shields are not proper to counter their enemies and got nerfed when I ask the simple question why they got nerfed I receive silence and:" you go to use civilian guns and codes"- np.
Tizonas are nerfed exactly as much as debs- post #67 np.
Pretorian is the best brick bomber- it handles like heavy one but it is medium one- np. Hessian "Medium" bomber turns faster and got one gun more- np.
We are at the point where corsair factions refuse to fight hessian factions because the difference in ships are huge- it is np too I guess.

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Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Cond0r]

Nah Vito, this isnt true. When I talk about balance, I never look at the ship from my perspective (that wouldnt make any sense). I look at it from a general perspective and take the facts that I know about it into account.

The Odin is fast, yes, I never have and never will deny that. Its faster than a Titan. The Titan in return has more armor, more energy and it is hard to hit. Yes, the Titan is hard to hit.

It turns slow, yes, but if you do anything but fly straight in duels with it, you will be hard to hit. In group fights, the Titan is one of the hardest to hit ships while its being chased and the energy that it has is yet another plus when its chasing another target.

blablabla I have nothing to say but Im posting anyway

Govedo, I suggest you read what other people post and take those facts into account before you start making posts like the one you just did. With posts like that you are basically admitting that you arent even reading through the counter arguments in this thread, but you're just responding with stuff you're pulling out of your behind.

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[17:23:05] Mini Me: pls
[17:23:06] Mini Me: gtfo

[Blodo]

And again I would ask not Blodo the hessian but Blodo the dev why the corsair fighter guns got nerfed in 4.86?
Reason for it would be fine.

Well in the case of the Salamanca it was a simple issue of rounding off numbers. There were concerns that considering the Titan reactor the Salamanca might be even too efficient for the damage it did, especially with the Sabre nerf. This considering that the Titan + guns was balanced more against the OP Sabre than against the non OP Templar for example.

So when you took Titan vs Sabre matchup... it was more or less all right. Then you take Templar vs Titan and that matchup is a bit different, especially when player flying the Titan isn't a hopeless noob but knows how to fly it properly...

However you are talking about the Salamanca nerf as if it meant a lot, in the end it pretty much might as well not even happened as the damage shaved off of it was tiny.

The Tizona "nerf" wasn't a nerf. It's a result of people not considering the big picture. All pulses had damage shaved off of them to account for fixing pulse damage against shield types (which had additional damage against non graviton shields, and as such EVERYONE mounted graviton). After 4.86 it is now worth mounting shields other than graviton. All pulses are now just as effective against all shields in terms of percentage bonus/handicap. Some Corsairs think this nerf was specifically targeted against them, when that's obviously not true at all.

That's pretty much it when it comes to Corsair nerfs, aside from the Osiris which everyone knows was justified and right now people still haven't figured out its new role (hint: look at RM carrier, it's not really anti cap... more anti fighter).

EDIT: As to saying that balance team didn't balance Odin against Titan... I guess you know better what balance team does than for example I do when I am a dev? I specifically put a lot of time into making sure Titan vs Odin is a good matchup. I *know* it is a good matchup because I made sure to fly Titan in those 1v1s and trying to fly like a noob will until it was obvious that a Hessian sabre/odin will have a decent matchup even with not so skilled Titan. Do you want me to teach you how to dodge in a group fight with Titan? Because it's childishly easy and then maybe you will stop spreading lies that Titan vs Odin is an unbalanced matchup.

[Vito]

Nah Vito, this isnt true. When I talk about balance, I never look at the ship from my perspective. I look at it from a general perspective and take the facts that I know about it into account.

The Odin is fast, yes, I never have and never will deny that. Its faster than a Titan. The Titan in return has more armor, more energy and it is hard to hit. Yes, the Titan is hard to hit.

It turns slow, yes, but if you do anything but fly straight in duels with it, you will be hard to hit. In group fights, the Titan is one of the hardest to hit ships while its being chased and the energy that it has is yet another plus when its chasing another target.
Govedo, I suggest you read what other people post and take those facts into account before you start making posts like the one you just did. You are basically admitting that you arent even reading through the counter arguments in this thread, but you're just responding with stuff you're pulling out of your behind.

Yes, but the Hessian guns are fast while the Corsair guns are slow. What you just said - and I agree with you - is that while a group of Titans might be good at running a group of Odins is epic at killing.

The Corsairs are simply tired of losing to Odins and Sabres with Natters so I guess the Hessians are a victim of their own success. All they can do for some action now is raid Gamma because, lets face it, where is the fun in fighting Wraiths with Hornivipers in New Berlin, with NPC cap patrols and all that?

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The Corsair Trade Company

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[Reacher]

He speaks the truth and I have to disagree with Prysin about the Thor - Praetorian thing, the Praetorian is actually the best anti-cap bomber in my opinion.

The problem comes from somewhere else: like Tupac said, what might seem perfectly balanced to a good PvP'er will feel unbalanced to an average player. The same for the guns. The hessian line is primarily balanced to counter the Wraiths and Hornvipers and when they face the Corsair tech the second side has no chance. While a good player like Igor or one of his friends can put the Titan to good use and take out an average player flying an Odin, things are not the same when the roles reverse. The fact that the RHA/RF factions have some of the best PvP'ers around also adds to the issues, but it's not their fault they're good at it and balancing tech after the player-base skills will not and should not happen.

Of course, the Hessian players will come up with a simple solution to this Corsair problem: get some skills or run and hide. We tried that and we got massive Q_Q over skype about how fail we are for running. So tell me, Disco community, what should we do? The Hessians tell us to run and hide but then they complain about nobody being in O5/O41/whatever. Those systems being empty is the result of YOUR actions. I'm not judging you, I'm only saying that nobody can blame the sair player-base for hugging Prox or Fes or flying caps when they have no chance of keeping their own against the Hessian player-base.

That's shows some real lack of fortitude if Corsairs just bend to someones Q_Q

Also practice makes perfect. Get Karolis to show you how to fly and shoot in a Titan. He's the one who taught me.



@Sails, TBH, Benitez: Another solution would be to try and recruit/ encourage skilled veteran players into flying Corsair characters and to remedy what issues cause the mass exodus of those players in the first place.

[Cond0r]

Yes, but the Hessian guns are fast while the Corsair guns are slow. What you just said - and I agree with you - is that while a group of Titans might be good at running a group of Odins is epic at killing.

The Corsairs are simply tired of losing to Odins and Sabres with Natters so I guess the Hessians are a victim of their own success. All they can do for some action now is raid Gamma because, lets face it, where is the fun in fighting Wraiths with Hornivipers in New Berlin, with NPC cap patrols and all that?

Yes Vito, Hessian guns are faster. But Hessian guns are Laser guns, Corsair guns are Neutron guns. Thats why the Titan can shoot those neutron guns way longer than an Odin can shoot its Natters. You can also mount a full Salamanca setup without sacrificing a lot of shield damage, while you cant mount a full Natter setup because you wont bring the shields down anytime soon. There is also the fact that some people like slow guns. Theres nothing wrong in slow guns, Vito. Personally I hate Natters, I use 600ms 3.03. The Titan, from the impression I got on it, can kill just fine. Also, if you hate 600ms that much, why not just use something else? Dont you think its a bit of a personal preference?

And about fighting in the core of Rheinland, we actually do that when there is someone to fight against, despite the cap patrols and RNC spam. Why? Well because a challenge is always fun.

@Sails, TBH, Benitez: Another solution would be to try and recruit/ encourage skilled veteran players into flying Corsair characters and to remedy what issues cause the mass exodus of those players in the first place.

Amen. If you remember, there was a time when a lot of skilled veteran players were willing to log on and defend Gamma against any threat, at any time (I admit, for me, it was mostly because I wanted to help the Sails). With that in mind, why has no one from the Corsairs asked the following question yet: What changed that?

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[17:23:05] Mini Me: pls
[17:23:06] Mini Me: gtfo

[Blodo]

Vito, here's an idea: get some Titans with civie 8.33 like Tupac suggested earlier in the thread. Those guns are epic, if not better even than Hessian level 9s at dealing damage. As long as you can hit with them. But then again they are 750ms and 8.33 so you shouldn't have any trouble. Mix with 2 debs and on Titan reactor fire them forever because you never run out of energy - unlike an Odin and never mind Sabre.

Then just do the math: Titans that are good at running... with fast guns with good damage... = comparable to Wraith/Odin? Perhaps. I still maintain a Sala Titan is also comparable because the 4.00s are super easy to hit with and Tizonas are still just pure sex. But that's me. You want newb friendly for group fights? Go for the civilian gun treatment.

[Vito]

Igor, the tech argument is pointless, as we can spend two weeks arguing about it.

What changed? Good question, actually. People got bored, others got tired of the nerfs, others simply changed over time. Trying to get back to the old days is futile.

Blodo, the Corsair tech is part of our culture and identity. Using civilian or allied tech would equal losing selling our soul for some PvP advantages and we will not sacrifice RP for blue texts.

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The Corsair Trade Company

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[Cond0r]

Igor, the tech argument is pointless, as we can spend two weeks arguing about it.

What changed? Good question, actually. People got bored, others got tired of the nerfs, others simply changed over time. Trying to get back to the old days is futile.

Exactly Vito, tech arguing always ends like that :laugh:

Oh and, tired of the nerfs or bored? Nah not really. Have you ever thought about the fact that maybe it was the fault of the factions that we fought for? Maybe it was the Corsairs themselves. You know that old saying; "Maybe its not the World...."

we will not sacrifice RP for blue texts.

Yet, here we are.

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[17:23:05] Mini Me: pls
[17:23:06] Mini Me: gtfo