RE: The sanction of the Hess/Bret Combined Forces BattleGroup

[Lumik]

This is only question of sanction for Bret side. From Hessians it was clear ID violation, no things to talk about:

3. Cannot ally with any military, police, or corporate players except for Rheinland lawfuls against non-Rheinland pirate invasions.

What do you want to know more? I don´t know what the hell Hessian players thought when they decided to do that. And by the way, I assume that they appered in Cambridge strongly ooRP by Skype of some BAF/BPA/BIS member ("hey, mate, brets are ruining the corsair base in cambridge!"). I doubt that inRP somebody invite them, and I don´t believe that they appeared here just accidently (luckily with some battleships, ehm...). You can try justify it by RP as you want, but ID is clear. Full stop.

Very uneasy question is if and how sanction Bret side. :unsure:

Where does it say in the RM ID that you can shoot IC regardless of cargo violations? It doesn't. You guys added that event based on forum RP. You set a precedent that we would be able to dynamically alter our allegiances based on roleplay. I think that Roleplay should trump the rules as long as there's no obvious reason 'why not'.

Important part is that RM ID is not forbidding it, ID doesn´t say that they can´t do that. If RM say "from tomorrow all IC ships will be shot on sight" it´s ok by ID and RP. Some consequncies will come but it´s ok. So Hessians are fully guilty. Brets...hard to say how right solve this situation. :unsure: It seems that admins (I doubt that sanction comes only from one admin´s decision) saw unfair to punish only one side...

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[Blodo]

Both sides are guilty of being in the same group as one another... that was the violation... and nothing else.

[Petitioner]

Important part is that RM ID is not forbidding it, ID doesn´t say that they can´t do that. If RM say "from tomorrow all IC ships will be shot on sight" it´s ok by ID and RP.

So I can take a Military ID and act like a terrorist, shooting everyone that's not flying a Rheinland lawful ship, because my ID doesn't prohibit it?

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[Rodriguez]

Both sides are guilty of being in the same group as one another... that was the violation... and nothing else.

If this is a matter of who was grouped with who.

The BAF fighters/bombers, or at least many of them, didn't stay in the same group with the hessians.

The majority of BAF snubs were grouped with me, as I was coordinating them.

BAF|MN-Whitaker
BAF|Lt.James.Arland
BAF|Lt.Mike.Havering
BAF|Ens.S.Carrighan
BIS|Agent.Archer.
BIS|Agent.Coldstream
Bowex)Andrew.Husker
Kassy.Landers
HullCracker[37]

I have screenshoots of those listed above being in group with me and not with hessians.

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[Trogdor]

This is only question of sanction for Bret side. From Hessians it was clear ID violation, no things to talk about:
What do you want to know more? I don´t know what the hell Hessian players thought when they decided to do that. And by the way, I assume that they appered in Cambridge strongly ooRP by Skype of some BAF/BPA/BIS member ("hey, mate, brets are ruining the corsair base in cambridge!"). I doubt that inRP somebody invite them, and I don´t believe that they appeared here just accidently (luckily with some battleships, ehm...). You can try justify it by RP as you want, but ID is clear. Full stop.

Very uneasy question is if and how sanction Bret side. :unsure:
Important part is that RM ID is not forbidding it, ID doesn´t say that they can´t do that. If RM say "from tomorrow all IC ships will be shot on sight" it´s ok by ID and RP. Some consequncies will come but it´s ok. So Hessians are fully guilty. Brets...hard to say how right solve this situation. :unsure: It seems that admins (I doubt that sanction comes only from one admin´s decision) saw unfair to punish only one side...

RP > ID imo. Seems like this is something that should have come down to a judgement call.. It does say don't do this, but I think in this case it should have been allowed. Kinda like how recently there was a guy who was not legally allowed to own a gun, but charges were dropped against him when he shot a home invader.


When the Zoners were attacking the Sairs recently because of the FP9 controversy, were there sanctions? Nothing that says Zoners can do anything offensively. But roleplay led to it being logical so it happened.

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[Jeremy Hunter]

I was present at the PDI attack shortly before the Hessians arrived.

I can attest that ALL SNUB CLASS VESSELS WERE PLACED IN THE SAME GROUP, SEPERATE FROM THE CAPS. I was there with Seba until I had to leave due to RL ( I was BIS|GC-Aelena.Fate, who sadly made some confusing calls before leaving (sweat)

Why the BIS craft were sanctioned, I do not know. Josh and Jeni would like to know I'm sure.



Also, I am not amused at the attitude of the Corsairs and other veterans. Preying on those who were sanctioned for a free CAU upgrade? Have you lost all sense of decency? Little more then common vultures. At least the BAF didn't sink to that level, and instead focused on docking, restock, re-equiping, and getting out of the Omicrons and back to Bretonia. They made it, thankfully.

But yes, bravo. The most OORP gank I have seen yet. At least the RNC gank Liberty when raiding because it's justified.


Now, off to do a crapload of Forum Stuff I honestly have neglected due to being stuck with a smartphone.

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[phileditin51]

Unfortunately it's a historical fact that Britain hired Hessian Mercenaries in the 1700's, albeit it was against the Americans, so in this instance, I, from a historically / politically orientated view point, see this as just another good RP idea under the QQ hammer.

[Veygaar]

...

I thought the first rule about sanction threads was... you don't talk about sanction threads.

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[AeternusDoleo]

If I may ask the Hessians, here, openly. What was the motivation for going into Cambridge, other then "let's join in and pew a Sair base already under attack". How did the Hessians
a) Know about the attack
b) Know about the base. While Cambridge is listed on their ZoI, it's debatable they'd have scouts going 40K up midsystem.
c) Know that the BAF wouldn't summarily boot them out of Bretonian Core space as a non-Bretonian cap without permit (especially since, if this IRPly happened - Rheinland would have reason to embargo Bretonia -yet again-)

If the motivation for it is nothing more then "there's a base, let's send every heavy we have to the very edge of our operational zone and pew the snot out of a base that's already caving under the attack of the natives", then you really have to question if your actions were justified. It'd have been very easy for you guys to blockade the Cambridge jump hole and ensure that no reinforcements got through - that'd have been a death sentence for the Sairs still at the base, as well as the base itself.

That said, I'm not sure the sanction was wise the way it was done (I was one of the people who filed a report). Right now, the final action is left to the players that felt wronged - the ships involved have been thrown into Corsair space, needing to travel quite a while and being defenseless while doing so. It allows the Sair capships (many of whom are piloted by people I cannot call mature) to simply pick them off and steal their equipment. Which will just end up creating more OORP resentment and player hate, not to mention Q_Q. If you want them to lose stuff, just CTE750 them into oblivion. But as far as I'm concerned, a stern warning and a CTE750 threat would have sufficed.

I do not advise restoring that station. It would have caved eventually anyway, would just have taken longer and spawned more fights around the base - which would have been more enjoyable for all involved. The position of the base in open space is bad now the shields do not grant immunity. I would advise the Sairs to be sneaky if they establish a new base - and do so inside a dense roid field. Dublin, New London, Cambridge, Manchester... all of those places have suitable fields. Rarely are the roidfields patrolled.

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[Madvillain]

Nothing that says Zoners can do anything offensively. But roleplay led to it being logical so it happened.

nope , zoners were ''escorting'' other ships into gamma.
thus allowed by ID to do what they did.
I understand the question marks some Bretonian players have with this.

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