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ophidian · 04-27-2012, 05:02 PM,

I always found it wrong to move the idea of a main antagonist from aliens to a new nation. Gallia as a whole was an unnecessarily big addition to an already big community. Instead of creating a new house with lots of new things, the development could've been (should've been from my perspective) focused on improving the dynamics of the world we already have. You can do limitless things in the current game world without Gallia. Just like doing something WoW did , a la Cataclysm sized RP change / environment change would give uber life to this mod, as well as countless new things to discover in an ever familiar environment. And since we were already based in this part of the game, it would be a rather fluent and flawless transition. This, I told to Igiss back in 2009, it is 2012, there wasn't anything positive to change my idea regarding Gallia in this 3 years.

The new Gallia ideas are promising, I am hoping to see more.

Ingenious · (This post was last modified: 04-27-2012, 05:10 PM by Ingenious.)

' Wrote:Not to be rude but thats Bullcrap if you look at the geometry of the sirius map regardless of the Real Life 3D geometry of Space itself, its 2D and thus should be treated as such. Links between Rhienland and Kusari are made possible by highway systems like Sigma 13 make sense topologically as Kusari and Rhienland are right next to eachother like Kusari and Liberty are etc...

But Gallia is pinned in a remote corner of Sirius blocked to the East by the Taus and Omicrons on its way to Kusari and the only real access to another house it has is Bretonia with Lewis and Orkney acting as the Highway Systems between the two Houses.

INRP and in LOGIC there can be no SUPER LINKS between gallia in its current postion in sirius to all or most of the other houses as they are too far away. GAllia needs to become more Centralised within Sirius Sector to have such Highway Links you are talking about to other Houses.

I think you should reassess your own facts before coming up with outlandish ideas for connecting gallia with the rest of sirius when it sits in a region of sirius whose direct Mirror Image systems on the opposite side of Sirius in the North East Corner of Sirius, are Omicron 99, IOTA and Lost. Which if Im not mistaken are as remote as hell and are thus Nomad Systems. Gallics are not Nomads so should not be tucked away behind the Taus and Outcast Empire;)

You're either immature or retarded, space is in three dimensions (or more). Look at your room, is it a flat piece of paper? Topologically, an inhabited sector would have sphere-like shape.
In roleplay, jump holes appear and disappear unpredictably, and are unstable.
In logic, there can indeed be "super links" as you say between gallia with other houses, since the logical basis for jump holes in the first place appeals to the physics of wormhole travel, not short lengths. None of the jumps even between systems would be possible without wormhole travel, and you could jump anywhere in Sirius with wormhole travel. That also serves as the basis for how we have hyperdrives now, so you can indeed jump from Gallia to Omicron Iota if you are motivated to. So cross-sector jumpholes or even jumpgates are feasible.

You don't know what you're talking about, so be quiet.

dodike · 04-27-2012, 05:18 PM,

**jammi** · 04-27-2012, 05:20 PM,

' Wrote:You're right. Gallia isn't perfect and it has it's flaws. But be assured it is nothing to do with it's content or the way it was integrated into the mod. Alot of work went into that project and what was produced was something that rivalled the original concept of Freelancer altogether.
As mentioned before, it's a numbers game. Toward the end of 4.85 there was a boost of activity in Gallia. Events were occuring on a daily basis, and New York was left baron at times to accomodate the flood to Languedoc and Bergundy.

What. Gallia is receiving an overhaul simply because the general consensus is that it was poorly designed and executed. Furthermore, a disporportionate amount of work went into it, and I'd hardly say anything in that entire House rivals Freelancer's original concepts.

I can't remember any time any of Liberty's systems have been abandoned in favour of Gallic ones, either. The closest I can think of was 1) when the event server was up, and people were getting their free Valor LePew on, and 2) when there were fully equipped Council and GRN fighters on the /restarts that people started farming for cash.

And Ingenious, you've completely missed Black Widow's point. Debating the sematics of 3D space is entirely pointless when it is currently impossible to present a 3D game map. We have a 2D map that systems are plotted on via a grid of 'pegs'. That means our current system density is the very max - by that same logic, Widow's ideas won't work either. There's not enough pegs for a normal House's systems to fit into the proposed area, let alone Gallia.

Also, jump holes being unstable is highly debateable. Arguably, it's just propaganda ingrained over the centuries by Ageira, to protect their monopolies. Lost shipping around the 'holes can be accounted for by either instablisty or... the fact that you're driving an unprotected cash-cow through a pirate hive. Go figure.

EDIT: There obviously is a max cap on jump lengths for gate and holes, or the DK wouldn't have bothered with hypergates. Now stop being so abrasive and try to get along with people, yes?

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Ingenious · (This post was last modified: 04-27-2012, 05:25 PM by Ingenious.)

' Wrote:

Thanks for that!

' Wrote:And Ingenious, you've completely missed Black Widow's point. Debating the sematics of 3D space is entirely pointless when it is currently impossible to present a 3D game map. We have a 2D map that systems are plotted on via a grid of 'pegs'. That means our current system density is the very max - by that same logic, Widow's ideas won't work either. There's not enough pegs for a normal House's systems to fit into the proposed area, let alone Gallia.

I didn't miss the point at all, the 2D restriction of your game map can be overcome by having links that are more than 1.41 lengths long (1.41 being sqrt(2), the length between NY and Texas for example.) I think the Honshu-S13 one is 10-20 long, by comparison.

' Wrote:EDIT: There obviously is a max cap on jump lengths for gate and holes, or the DK wouldn't have bothered with hypergates. Now stop being so abrasive and try to get along with people, yes?

Hyperdrive doesn't have a cap on jump length, does it? You mad?

**jammi** · 04-27-2012, 05:29 PM,

' Wrote:I didn't miss the point at all, the 2D restriction of your game map can be overcome by having links that are more than 1.41 lengths long (1.41 being sqrt(2), the length between NY and Texas for example.) I think the Honshu-S13 one is 10-20 long, by comparison.

At which point you run out of space due to the map size cap, and overall system congestion. 3D map would be cool, but FL wouldn't be able to make the illusion of one based on system placement work. There's too many systems crammed into not enough space. If it makes you feel any better about Freelancer's faux-physics, just think of the map as a top-down view, with the system placement ranging wildly above and below the plain.

' Wrote:You mad

No, I just see no need for the hostility you kick out as standard.

EDIT: Hyperdrive is capped on fuel, so yes it does. Plus it's a gimmick additon that isn't fully reflected in lore yet. Not to mention the fact that Omicron Major is in another star cluster altogether, only accessible by hypergate. Placing it on the game map where it currently is is a misnomer.

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dodike · (This post was last modified: 04-27-2012, 05:37 PM by dodike.)

' Wrote:And Ingenious, you've completely missed Black Widow's point. Debating the sematics of 3D space is entirely pointless when it is currently impossible to present a 3D game map. We have a 2D map that systems are plotted on via a grid of 'pegs'. That means our current system density is the very max - by that same logic, Widow's ideas won't work either. There's not enough pegs for a normal House's systems to fit into the proposed area, let alone Gallia.

The point is that 2D projection doesn't necessarily show the real distances.
Rheinland can be as close to Gallia as it is to Kusari without the need to change the layout of the map so connecting them together with few holes/gates isn't as unreal is it seems. What seems like a long trek on the 2D projected map can be as short as many other connections.

Ingenious · (This post was last modified: 04-27-2012, 05:38 PM by Ingenious.)

' Wrote:At which point you run out of space due to the map size cap, and overall system congestion. 3D map would be cool, but FL wouldn't be able to make the illusion of one based on system placement work. There's too many systems crammed into not enough space. If it makes you feel any better about Freelancer's faux-physics, just think of the map as a top-down view, with the system placement ranging wildly above and below the plain.

No you. By your interpretation, then, if your screen is parallel to the xy plane, then the jump between Sigma-13 and Honshu is roughly parallel to the xy plane. So having other jumps on that order of length is reasonable, if you will.

' Wrote:The point is that 2D projection doesn't necessarily show the real distances.
...
What seems like a long trek on the 2D projected map can be as short as many other connections.

EDIT: Yeah that ^

dodike · (This post was last modified: 04-27-2012, 06:13 PM by dodike.)

' Wrote:Also, jump holes being unstable is highly debateable. Arguably, it's just propaganda ingrained over the centuries by Ageira, to protect their monopolies. Lost shipping around the 'holes can be accounted for by either instablisty or... the fact that you're driving an unprotected cash-cow through a pirate hive. Go figure.

That's a myth created by players due to lack of game mechanics and not the other way around. (lacking game mechanics because jumpholes are stable, ref. vanilla story).
I'm not saying taking a jumphole is like playing russian roulette (many has managed with only jumpholes for centuries) but there is a certain degree of instability.

' Wrote:EDIT: There obviously is a max cap on jump lengths for gate and holes, or the DK wouldn't have bothered with hypergates. Now stop being so abrasive and try to get along with people, yes?

It is debatable whether hypergates where intended to be used for inter-Sirius travel. (Event Horizon movie comes to mind)

Point being, another convenient way into Gallia can be "discovered" if devs really wanted to.

SMI-Great.Fox · 04-27-2012, 06:10 PM,

Opinion on Gallia.

You can't [CENSORED] pirate there. Unless you all are in CAU 8 GB's cause snubs will get obliterated from the trade lane guns and the way overpowered weapon platforms.

And solo pirating is never going to happen if the playercount is low. The NPC's tear you a new one before you can get out a single line of RP.

The only way to pirate a transport is to join the GRP. That way you don't have to worry about those problems.

Otherwise its a traders bloody paradise.

My idea. Tone down the gun and NPC strength to a manageable level. Otherwise you'll never get the criminal elements into the mix which would increase Police and Navy activity if you only have traders able to operate there.

-"If we do not learn at least one thing a day....Our minds turn to stupor"- Kyle Sparrgrove -2005

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