Outcast x Corsair equipment and ship balance

[majkp]

I moved these posts to a new topic.

[Carlos_Benitez]

I do find myself agreeing with McNeo on a number of fronts. I certainly cant see what posessed the powers that be to remove one of the Corsairs' only tangible allies, only giving yet more allies to the Outcasts, who already have far more than would be balanced.

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[McNeo]

And what will happen, AoM, when the difference between Corsair and Outcast stuff gets even larger? I do not mind if I can beat those who use the better tech. I care for those who would win if it were a properly matched fight, but are denied by the technology that the Outcasts get.

And yes Nexus, I considered that I would undermine my own credibility, but this must be said. If I am to sacrifice my name for the Corsairs, so be it. And it's the morning...

I do understand the need for a gunboat within the Borderworlds shipline, that I wasn't opposed to. What I was opposed to was the designer's eagerness to have its main purpose to outmatch the Corsair gunboat. It gets to the point where our shipchoice is smaller, and the stats for the ones we can choose get worse, which is why I have to speak out like this.

The one things the Corsairs have over the Outcasts and their choice of ships is our gunboat, which is better than the hacker one, the dragon one and the other ones they have, arguably of course. Just as arguably, the Outcast destroyer is better than the Corsair cruiser, and the Outcast battleships and dreadnoughts are better than the Corsair equivalent...

Not every faction needs their own ships, I agree. The Borderworlds are an exception, I agree. But equally, not every ship of the Outcasts needs to be better than their Corsair equivalent.

[mjolnir]

I agree with McNeo (huh.. that's first time ever I guess)

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I don't have any Corsair character right now.. had one before... I have 2 Outcasts..which are not often used, 1 BD and some LH.
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Guns
Kraken is a bit uber.... but it uses so much energy that the Sabre cannot really mount so many of them. The power drain on Salamanca is not so high and the Titan happens to have a really big powerplant.

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Fighters
Titan against a Sabre will be having a difficult time...but the roles of the ships are different. Titan is a pirating ship isn't it?
To counter the Sabre Corsairs should get a good HF - Crow-like (the centurion seems to lack agility) and learn to use the Arwing. I was never an LF fan.. but after flying the Slipstream I changed my mind.. they are very deadly.

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Gunboats
I'm not a GB expert... maybe just an anti-gb one
Corsair GB should remain superior to the new outcast one. I see the Outcast one having stats close to the Lane Hacker gunship. So good agility, 6 turrets and not so high armor.

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Can't say anything about bigger ships as I don't fly them.
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general on outcasts

Oucasts "have" a big choice of allied ships on their side...while Corsairs don't. That comes from many big factions allied on the Outcasts side.

In my humble opinion Outcasts should stick only to the Border world/Outcast ships.
Outcast characters flying around in BD VHF, BD bomber, Hessian Cruiser, BD Dread.... do not make any sense to me at all. OC don't have a GB now.. so it's ok to use allied ones

I thought the Outcasts believe that they are "enhanced" by the use of Cardamine so they build best ships and weapons... why should they use ships from their underdogs? Also I don't see the hard pressed Blood Dragons (note:they don't like cardi) giving their ships to Outcasts, same goes for Red Hessians. Outcasts should be proud of their equipment.

It doesn't really feel like fighting Rogues when you meet them in Sabres/Falcatas... it doesn't feel like fighting Outcasts when you meet them in Hessian cruisers.


Now when 4.85 comes and the Hogosha get a nice looking fighter(probably agile too).... all the outcasts will start screaming like crazy if they see a Corsair using it. Yet those same Outcasts don't see a problem having a Blood Dragon or a Hessian cruiser.

EDIT: AoM Crow is sold on Primus... so actually Corsairs could use it as well... but TBH says that Corsairs believe their ship are best, so they don't use other ones.. I would agree that it's the best RP

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[RingoW]

First of all my appologies for some comments i have made in an undiplomatic manner.

Btw, Corsairs have lost two allies. Unioners due to a diplomacy change with the new version and the Coalition, due to some unfortunately circumstances (have read TBH and SCRA message dumps, Benitez will follow). If Xings coalition fighters and destroyer get a blessing, you would have had access to a greater variety.
I see no reason, why SCRA and Corsairs should not have good relations again. The marital status of Ivan and Sonja would be a good point to create a story around a reunion. So this is up to Corsair elders to get an ally again. In this case think about the upcoming threat of the Wilde. You may move the reunion part til the Wilde threat becomes "real" with the next version.

Btw, had Ivan brought his fighters to Crete, before was captured and escaped with a GB? This is not mentioned anywhere and Razr has pointed me to know nothing. So this information would enlight my view.

My char will stay with Corsair ships and equipment. I will not care any longer what others are using.

@ Mjolnir: The Crow is sold on OC Palermo base. Anywhere else? Readme just states Omicron Eta.

The Togo was never meant to be used by anyone else than Blood Dragons and i thought NovaPG would take care about to keep it Blood Dragon only. I see no reason, why OC's are using them. They have two of their own.

As i have seen yesterday, when NovaPG was becoming Nova only. The most important thing is tactics. No stats can supersede the right tactic and thats, Mjolnir and me are far away from beeing a perfect wing though. I see a lot of training in Gamma, but only fighter against fighter almost. Why not building up wings and make wing training.

Respectful
AoM

[Lohingren]

erm one thing i need to comment on

the titan has the best energy capacity in the game to my knowledge you stated.

the sabre has better firing time..... the firing time on the sabre is one of the worse in the game. so please do research before speaking

as for the destroyer being better than the corsair equiv. yet again dont speak without research because your GB can take that thing down easily and if you cant in the corsair cruiser....you need some practice.

EDIT: as for alliances 4 corsair factions.....2 outcasts and one very small faction........SCRA will still attack outcasts 1st if it comes down to things....... all our allies are on other side of the sector minus the hessians. All in all its all fare game

another EDIT: but yes this is point of opinion we have corsairs and outcasts saying you better we better. the fight is = lets leave it this way why this subject was brought up i dont know because it has been 20 times usually resulting in flames and the like. why do it again and again?

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Reapers of Sirius Database

[Doom]

well...word is up...

i tend to agree with McNeo here...Outcasts have great weapons...whole ship line and many allies with great equip.

Corsairs have Order...any maybe remotely IMG.


However if this is about Outcast GB that is being made....i would like it to be exactly like corsair one...so that i can fly circles around it and slowly with only 6 of my turrets eat it hull away...

I will NEVER get over that. You do NOT get destroyed by four Gunboats. Ever.

Yes you do....especially if i fly one of them....

[McNeo]

Lohingren, I do speak with experience. a Gunboat can take both the Outcast Destroyer and the Corsair cruiser. But the Outcast destroyer will probably win against a Corsair cruiser.

yes, the Titan has the best powerplant for a VHF. But that doesn't really count for much when you use guns which take 800 + Energy per second each.

I actually have a sabre, and I can tell you the firing time on the Sabre is very good. But i'll define what I mean by fireing time. This means to me, the time you have to shoot after your turn but before your opponent has turned. Hence, firing time is much better on the sabre. Hence, research done.

Four Corsair factions... benitez, TBH, OPG... the supposed fourth, the SCRA are actually currently claiming more Corsair kills than Outcast. You -may- count Bs| and CR in our favour, perhaps. so, thats 5

The 66th, and the RoS, with the NovaPG and the RHA, with the UOG and the LR, LH and AR. Thats.. eight?

That is research .. I tend to make sure I do research before posting somthing this volatile.

And the reason it keeps being brought up is because some of us feel that the Outcasts have the advantage of unfairly "balanced" tech. Of course it will be brought up, and the more time it is brought up, the less credibility the "bias" arguement works. It always ends like this because us Corsairs push to hard and the Outcasts refuse to accept that they have the advantage. However, these things MUST be said, otherwise things will just continue to deteriorate (for us at least.)

The 66th, and the RoS, with the NovaPG and the RHA, with the UOG and the LR, LH and AR. Thats.. eight?

That is research ..

[chopper]

I agree with McNeo, he has a point.

Also, i agree with Mjonlir, about OC using Blood Dragon ships.
I mean, what the hell? It says clearly on BD HF infocard that they wouldn't give it to their closest allies, and that's why it is sold on Kyoto.

Here :

However, Dragons conceal the design of this ship even from their pirate brethren, so the only place where it's built is Kyoto base.

There can be no RP reason for ANY damn Outcast to fly a damn Blood Dragon HF.
It is nonsense.

When i came here, i came just in time for a TBH-RM war.
And i laughed so much when TBH lost even though they had more members in a fight.
I thought they are noobs.
But then, when i tried to fly a Titan, i'v seen that i was very wrong.
Their RP about ships is one of the greatest on this server, and every faction should follow their example.

Now, few of you guys are missing the point.
McNeo didn't say that Outcasts shouldn't get a Gunboat.
He simply said that it shouldn't be stronger then the Corsair one.
You can't just rip off every advantage away from Corsairs.
If it is supposed to have 7,8 guns, then it should be a brick as well.
It is that simple.

Also, Blunt, to be honest, you are biased as well. I don't know what your intentions are,
but your conflict with the TBH makes your opinion subjective. Not that it matters, just to clear things up.

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It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.

Can't let you bash folks in your sig Chopper-Del

[globalplayer-svk]

i have personaly nothign again outcast gb.when they will have one,ok make a one for them.but as people here say,why make it so strong or stronger as corsair?all ships must be better for outcast?yes some outcast players are angry that they meet os many gb.but,when corsair will pirate and he is in titan,alone,he has very little chnaces to be succesfull,because all enemies can beat him.( and i mean pilots with the same skills) rheinland ships,ravens,outcast ships,dragon ships,tehy all can easy kill titan.so then corsair need somethign stronger to survive outside gamma.the gb is good choice,strong,big armour,but also big target for bobmers or fighters.you can easily hit corsair gb as img gb i think.and now outcast will have somethign similar strong and with that design?when half of the ship is thin as cocpit? that too small and too powerfull target i think.

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