The future of the barge?

[Cannon]

We're considering the future of the barge of the mod in this mod. I would like to hear opinions from the community as to what we might do with this ship.

The barge was introduced to provide a base ship for factions. Now factions can have actual dockable bases and so this reason is no longer necessarily valid.

The current problem is that the barge is more or less unbalanced with respect to the economy.

We have at least one or more of the following options:
1) Do nothing.
2) Reduce its cargo capacity.
3) Reduce its cargo capacity and massively increase its armour.
4) Remove its cruise engine (jumping and very slow normal engines only)
5) Prohibit barges docking at structures that are too small (i.e. allow docking only at mooring points)
6) Prohibit barges docking at anything. This means that two people are needed to use a barge; a player driving a freighter or transport to load/unload the barge and the barge player.
7) Increasing its cargo capacity and reducing its armour.

I could imagine doing something like
- option 4 only
- option 5 only
- option 4 and 6.
- option 7 and 4 and 6
- option 1

What other options are there? What combinations? Your thoughts please?

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[Camtheman]

number one, preferably, as it is already so nerfed in many ways.

although number 2 is appealing..

There should be mini barges, one for each house.

Similar to what was done with the Adv. Train.

Maybe 7.5k or 10k cargo, very slow (150 cruise speed, max)

huge.

Not as huge as the barge but at least double x y and z in size as the current 5ks, if its a 7.5k then of course less.

[Miranda]

From the options there I'd say Option 4. However a much better solution would be Friday's proposal to reduce their cargo capacity and add in docking modules for 5k transports, as well as giving them the ability to jump themselves with a drive, effectively turning them into something akin to a Spacing Guild Heighliner from Dune.

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[farmerman]

Getting rid of it entirely would be best.

Or 6 I guess.

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[Dane Summers]

I agree with Miranda - give them the ability to jump themselves BUT remove their ability to dock with anything. That way, they still need someone to help them offload goods.

As well, a self-jumping Barge could still be a very nice base ship, for folks not wanting the hassle of a PoB. Especially if you give it docking slots.

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[Ipuvaepe]

I had a rather detailed conversation with Friday a while back about this. I would like to see #4 #6 #7.

More specifically
• Increase in its cargo to 100k±20k
• Increased power capacity to 4m (Jump Drive Module Series II only)
• removal of all current weapons
• barge cannot dock
• change the 3 lf2 dock mod slots to lf2/lf3 (and obviously leave the two lf2/lf3)
• allow train+transports to dock to a dock mod when that dock mod is in an lf2/lf3 slot
• fail /jump when total docked cargo capacity >= 2000
• fail /jump when total cargo >= 5000
• change cruise time to 10 seconds
• change impulse speed to 1 m/s
• change cruise speed to 50 m/s
• allow docked ships to buy/sell cargo which would be added/removed to/from the barge's cargo instantly
••••• Perhaps FLHook storage instead of cargo, leaving cargo for fuel and equipment?
••••••••• This would also truly mean two are required, instead of jettison/F1/transport
••••••••• This would also break scanning, then again when you're scanning eleventy billion kg you're bound to have problems.
• give barges full /shop
• add a dedicated barge shield
••••• give the "barge shield" energy use equal to power regen, 10m hitpoints, 100m hitpoints/sec regen
••••••••• this ties in with the 1m/s impulse, since it will basically be immobile when CD'd
••••• "barge shield" when online consumes fuel
••••••••• A way to limit the fuel to less than total cargo capacity will need to be found.
••••••••••••• Perhaps a regenerating value instead of fuel?
••••••••••••• Perhaps a regenerating value in addition to fuel (must have both)?
••••••••••••• Perhaps a max activation time?
••••••••••••• Perhaps reduce powercore regen or shield regen over shield uptime?
• allow barges an FLHook interface to buy fuel items (but not sell) from NPC & player bases without docking.


In short, make the barge a barge.

EDIT: Oh and I forgot - no drifting for barges please

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[Gorva]

I agree that the barge is unbalanced in many respects. and something needs done. But I dont agree as to what. I wrote an artical that I was hoping to make it to the Dev team.

In this I purposed to make it a mobile base .. not sure if that can be done but with all he disadvantages of the base also..

1) no docking -requires people to unload it
2) jump capable itself -- too big and bulky to move through gates and JHs.. but will have to have someone to get its coordinates for it.
3) 5K fuel hold -- the reset requires docking ships to buy or sell to the barge
4) base guns - currently everyone can pirate a barge except a fighter
5) base like shields - make them like a base that require materials to use and maintain.
6) Speed '€“ leave it at 25/90 '€“ it can'€™t run fast but what base can? even make it abit slower -- its already pirated by everyone so much that its mainly being used as storage
7) Docking - allow upto the gunboat and transports to dock on it like a base.. -- if the barge jumps while your docked.. be some interesting roleplay
8) /base and /shop commands - agian allow buying selling of commodities when dock but cap how much it can hold to 60K or so.. even with these items noone could plan a cash run anywhere

--and finally do not allow it a cloak...

not sure how much of this you can do quickly.. but right now its so bulky and slow - no guns to defend to speak of.. and no shields worth anything as they are the same in a 5K transport --anyone with a Gunboat or better --even Ptrains can pirate a barge.. the only thing cant is the fighter..and then thats iffy

If I only can pick from your list....
increase its cargo and increase its shields
and 6) do not allow it docking on anything

if you only do 6 it will kill the barge..as its an open target for everyone

--Gorva BargeMaster of IC

[Marburg]

I'm a fan of the 4, 6 & 7 combo but if I had to choose just one, I'd go with 6

Is it possible to force the barge to eat resources? What I mean is, A mobile monstrosity like that should get like, 'a mile to the gallon' or somesuch & would make people who want to fly the thing to fill their hold w/ say, 35-50% of commodities needed just to get to where they're going...the rest could more than pay for the cost of the run & still grant a hefty enough profit...plus, I like the idea that if a player runs 'out of gas' they would need help from others to get to where they're trying to get to. Y'know?

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[Gorva]

I'm a fan of the 4, 6 & 7 combo but if I had to choose just one, I'd go with 6

Is it possible to force the barge to eat resources? What I mean is, A mobile monstrosity like that should get like, 'a mile to the gallon' or somesuch & would make people who want to fly the thing to fill their hold w/ say, 35-50% of commodities needed just to get to where they're going...the rest could more than pay for the cost of the run & still grant a hefty enough profit...plus, I like the idea that if a player runs 'out of gas' they would need help from others to get to where they're trying to get to. Y'know?

one thing to remeber if you make the barge undockable you will also need to make it where it cant be pirated as much.. maybe taking several battleships to kill it.. it was designed by info card as a mobile deep base a stand alone factory.. lets make it that give it /shop and docking.. base shields and armor that require resources but jump capable also.. it will have to rely on others to be "feed" loaded and unloaded -- but it also needs controll for docking liek the /base controls


I said this already once..

[Ursus]

Jumping is the real problem with them and should be the priority fix. Once that's fixed just make it really slow. It's already completely vulnerable to piracy. I'd really like to see tradelanes refuse them due to size ("unable to accomodate ships of your size"), and remove the cruise engine. Then give them speed that is a little slower than the time-for-credit ratio of four 5k ships. I'd like to see 6 implemented somehow but that's too punitive with the massive drifting and no cruise engine.

I'd also like to see house 10k ships with the same limits.

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