Like gorva allready said. but to be honest. if cannon keeps the barge as it is. And give it to the public. so its for sale or be able to create on a base itself. (playerbase wise) it solves the problem itself. as allready barges are beeing pirated as hell. And if more barges arise so will pirates. so it will fix itself. Also fly with a barge and try to dock while npc's pops. you are like a ping pong ball then. and are launched with like -380 speed backwards.
for the idea for turrets. thats useless as you cannot properly shoot with it. Because the vessel is TOO big. also turrets are alligned too far away and cant even properly shoot something.
About cloaks and jumpdrives:
jumpdrives i think must not be able to use on the barge. as it would only be abused more. And otherwise you would need a big capital ship in order for it to jump along. Also at least rp and defense for the barge.
cloaks. i would say why not? But not an advanced cloak mk2. you would need an advanced cloak mk 3 for it. As its such big ship and it costs more to maintain. (max 30 min to cloak with full barge of mox or something simular)
obviously there is no real sollution. but here people even respond on this topic while never flown themselves a barge. its really allready a pain in the ass. Even when jumped its just hard to dock. and mostly you need others to clean your cargo hold out and fill you.
So in the end i think cannon can better do nothing. make it more to the public as its flying is crappy as hell. (even doh i like it) and while peeps first buy it a lot they will stop playing with it very shortly. as its just creates more pirates. so economic will be good.
and for the idea of smaller sized barges. so a kind of train with like 20k cargo. it would be a nice idea. like stork and heron. easy to make just remove some containers in the middle and have another half barge like ship. half cargo double the speed and turning rate etc.
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First make all existing barges to starflyes with 1 b credits, in order to remove the unfair advantage of the current owners compared with the rest.
Keep the jumping option, increase the turn rate because NPCs are a way too harsh to barge users, the same cargo,no guns, GB shield in order not to be raped by NPCs/Gas clouds but make it not possible to dock anywhere. except playerbases- people would need loaders.
Make it build-able at player bases like the modules on 8 b price via insane amount of resources so they wont be spammed, if not possible/too hard to mod the building, just add ship dealer with 8 b price buy-able via base
stored credits.
This is the faster concept that is easy to implement if we go into detail it looks different:
All smaller and cheaper more then 5k ships are pure economic breakers and wet power trader dream so they must not exist.
The barge by itself is also economic breaker so making the costs to obtain/maintain one too high is the only option to keep the economy in tact. I wont mention how many people made many billions by trading with barges and with jumping with them and how much money players have that they should not have because it would turn into flamefest,people are greedy even for pixel money.
If you want to fix the cau8fail together with barge fail just increase the prices of everything 3-4 times-however then char corruption comes into play then may be division by 2 of the existing credits with some inflation would do it.
2 people can make 200-250( 300-320 if they use autoscript for jumping data) per person per hour with barge and jumper for the ones that are not aware of the situation.
Since the cau8 bug and the barge discovery became ridiculously easy to make money, not to mention the BS license removal.
So now you need to really proper balance it making it too expensive like proposed in point 1, however then the costs are also too easy to be covered.
My second proposal is better I guess- like Cannon proposed 2 years again via fuel propulsion- make the barge to use huge amount fuel in order to move on 90 speed or it moves with 5-10 speed, combine this with proposal 1 and you would get balanced barge- as trade off- it could receive 10k more cargo.
(10-09-2013, 10:51 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)
' Wrote:Keep the jumping option, increase the turn rate because NPCs are a way too harsh to barge users, the same cargo,no guns, GB shield in order not to be raped by NPCs/Gas clouds but make it not possible to dock anywhere. except playerbases- people would need loaders.
Make it build-able at player bases like the modules on 8 b price via insane amount of resources so they wont be spammed, if not possible/too hard to mod the building, just add ship dealer with 8 b price buy-able via base
stored credits.
All smaller and cheaper more then 5k ships are pure economic breakers and wet power trader dream so they must not exist.
The barge by itself is also economic breaker so making the costs to obtain/maintain one too high is the only option to keep the economy in tact. I wont mention how many people made many billions by trading with barges and with jumping with them and how much money players have that they should not have because it would turn into flamefest,people are greedy even for pixel money.
If you want to fix the cau8fail together with barge fail just increase the prices of everything 3-4 times-however then cha corruption comes into play then may be division by 2 of the existing credits with some inflation would do it.
2 people can make 200-250( 300-320 if they use autoscript for jumping data) per person per hour with barge and jumper for the ones that are not aware of the situation.
Since the cau8 bug and the barge discovery became ridiculously easy to make money, not to mention the BS license removal.
Which is why its jumping should be removed. The barge itself is not an economy breaker; it's so slow that a barge is actually harder to make money with than a 5k transport, without jumping. Jumping is the only way it's even very profitable. Which is a bit ridiculous, IMO; jump-hauling all day is just powertrading for credits, without much roleplay.
Barges should instead be a long haul for traveling, and used for long expeditions to get to the destination, with lots of roleplay along the way, as it would take all day to get anywhere. They would of course need more cargo space to make them actually worth using without jumps.
If barges were ever to go public, their visual size would need to be reduced; a bunch of players flying around with them would get pretty ridiculous. Besides, their size is pretty disproportional to their cargo space. 40,000 cargo, and you could easily fit a hundred pirate transports inside of it.
Im all for option 7 and 4 and 6 because it prevents people from being a one man army, there will be a lot more at stake for transporting the mass goods, and the barge wont be used as a mobile base.
This forces *gasps* people to not go solo on their barge missions and perhaps Houses will get their own Jump fleet to use their barges like the Zoners have very well. Would be awesome to see Samura, Repex, and the other two house major shipping companies doing this. It promotes core faction interaction and player base in those factions. There is no damn need to make a "new" faction to make this happen. The barge's biggest blight is their cargo space : Trouble using the damn thing, ratio. Making the cargo hold larger, like 60k. If they are indeed making the Jumping barges 40k off target, this change forces you to have a convoy to ferry stuff back and forth.
Sometimes, when all you want is to gain your freedom, you must be willing to risk it all.
Barges need total change for 2 main reasons right now - the first one is that they are OP traders and second one because they are limited to only few players.
Current barges must be made to starflies with the barge dealer price as credits and new 4.87 barge concept could be created.
I would purge the barges first now on spot then think about the concept, however it wont happen because many people that are supposed to make this change are dependable on barges to supply their bases or they powertrade with them( OSI ID?) right now.
Before someone says that it is not possible-it is possible to do 40 ship changes as admin and it should not take more then 20 min. After this first step all players would be at the same level so then more proper and unbiased discussion about the barge future could be made.
It is possible to keep the barges jumping without killing the economy like now- I know it is a lot harder then simply remove their ability to jump, however it would make more sense.
There are 2 ways to make it as I said in my other post-
1) make the barge price insane so only a few could afford it- the drawback is that it would continue to be limited for new player and that the ones that can easy give 8-10 b would be able to enjoy really good RoI.
2) make the barge group tool- make not possible to be used only one man- you need 2 ships- barge storage and barge jumper(no cargo) to move it-2 people, you would need fueler for the jumper because the barge should use 10k fuel per jump- 3 people, you would need possible 1-2 escorts to protect you because you got no guns and 1-2 more to unload the barge storage because the storage should not be able to dock. I guess if the barge got 10-20k more space for the fuel that it should use per jump, you add in the 2 operators 1-2 fuelers&unloaders, 1-2 escorts the barge pure profit per person should be 20-30% higher then one person trading with 5ker- I would take this as concept and start with numbers based on that.
This is the concept that we should go- just refine it to make it balanced with less dev input/Cannon coding.
In general totally different approach of synchronising the new base features with barge should be make because now everything is weird and not balanced.
My visions you can skip this part if you does not like the concept above:
1) Barge made in 2 parts:
Base barge engines ship and cargo storage part:
1.1) Jump ship
cut the ship behind the first section- make the head section of the barge jumpship- 10 m battleship core, GB shield, Cruiser hull/bots, no guns, no cd, no cm. Handling like 5k train- enough space to mount Mk4 Drive and note the only one that should be able to use it due to the core restrictions.
Price of the ship:
the maximum possible price that does not corrupt the char, buyable only on player-base.
1.2)Barge-cargo storage- the second part of the current barge:
Double hull 5xbots, 10 cruiser lvl 8 guns good spots, good arcs, small cruiser core, Cruiser shield, 60 000 cargospace, same movement as current barge, disable cruise, disable the usage of gates/holes for this ship, disable the docking on anything then on player base with this ship, make sure it does not spin due to NPCs.
The concept of hard to kill without capship not easy to move storage with good anti-fighter options so the riders would go for the jump ship first
Price of the ship:
the maximum possible price that does not corrupt the char, buyable only on player-base.
3)Jumpdrives:
Mk4 Jump Drive- double the charge time make the fuel usage around 10 000. Balancing of the jumpdrives towards barge is must- I would like to see dedicated barge jumper able to preform group jumps with bigger ships only , and mk3 able to take snubs only, fueller needed,short charge.
Mk1 that allows cruisers to jump alone after long charge and MK2 that allows Bs to jump alone after long charge.
4)It is quite possible to make the barges not only names in the list but to make them detectable with little level playing- reducing the worth of all equip at NPC dealers would cause all ships to have max 89 LvL while you keep the barges at 90-you force the barge users to use escort because they would be attacked more often.
Second more easy way but more stupid way to make it is to make barge register with the 2 parts of the barge- you must register your ship or it gets deleted, you cannot rename it or it gets deleted.
(10-09-2013, 10:51 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)
I won't quote the above post due the unnecessary wall of text that would be created from it, but here's my opinion:
Yes, the idea of having a dedicated jumping ship, separate from the barge transport itself, would be a pretty good idea. This would prevent easy solo powertrading with barges, combined with also needing a person to transfer goods from the barge to a base; this would encourage having more player interaction and roleplay.
That's a great idea from you, Govedo, and I would like to see developers use that idea in the next update; I cast my "vote" in support of this.
But I'm not so sure about the rest of the ideas beneath that, requiring that barges be registered and labelled. This would discourage everyone from ever wanting a barge, as they would be constantly pirated, and no escort could protect them. When a person makes himself that obvious of a target, people would check chat lists and hunt down barges for easy piracy, since a barge is so enormous that anyone can easily destroy it before escorts could kill the pirate (assuming the pirate isn't flying a light fighter).
' Wrote:We have at least one or more of the following options:
1) Do nothing.
2) Reduce its cargo capacity.
3) Reduce its cargo capacity and massively increase its armour.
4) Remove its cruise engine (jumping and very slow normal engines only)
5) Prohibit barges docking at structures that are too small (i.e. allow docking only at mooring points)
6) Prohibit barges docking at anything. This means that two people are needed to use a barge; a player driving a freighter or transport to load/unload the barge and the barge player.
7) Increasing its cargo capacity and reducing its armour. 8) Prohibit barges for official faction only or SRP
I'll go for 4, 6 and 8, but for option 6 barge should have capability to repair it's equipment since nanos only repair hull. Barge was made for RP purpose and it should stay that way, IMO.
Easy way to solve that is to simply not give it any equipment. It doesn't need thrusters, it's turrets are a joke. The only external mounted stuff on a barge is the shield - if we can make it lose that and boost the nanobot capacity, there would be no equipment on the barge that could get damaged.
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From a time when all seems lost, from a dead man to a world, without restraint, unafraid and free.
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