GB balancing for 4.87

[Sava]

Sorreh, GBs are almost fine.
If something should be nerfed - it's TZ. (Not TS)
And high-end gunboats like BN, LR GB etc, too.

[Blodo]

Forcing people to wrestle with interface "for balance" is a bad idea.

Anyway let me quickly go through all the stuff in this thread:
- nerf agility instead of firepower -> means that you nerf a single gunboat's ability to function in a fight while at the same time keeping gunboat swarms just as strong as they are now = completely not what we had in mind, encouraging more gb swarming is meh
- remove/nerf turret zoom -> see argument above about wrestling with interface. Furthermore, turret zoom was reduced already and truth is if you fight on full zoom with gb = you can't really dodge SN at all so you just flail around the place. If you are fighting 2 bombers vs your 1 gunboat that essentially means death because one of the bombers will lay into you while the other dodges, and you can't even see that he does. Your only choice is to keep switching targets. But the constant target switching on good aim will be nerfed if gb primary dps/speed goes down. This will force gunboats to mount other loadouts than full primary which is the main reason for the nerf.

If there is anything I missed, point it out and I'll respond.

[Redon]

In my opinion, gunboats are supposed to be the snubkillers they are now. Perhaps Pulse/Razor setups could use a buff instead, since they're barely used now. Nerfing stuff whenever a problem occurs can't be the best solution.

again - to make GBs not OP - light BGs must have weaker shield. GBs supposed to kill bombers, so its not possible to Nova it and hardly possible to SNAC it.

Agreed with the thought on shields - the size difference between certain gunboats is quite extreme, and the fact that those that need to rely on dodging have precisely the same shield power as those that rely on tanking is silly.

The ones in the SP storyline could be killed by single fighters.

Troll? In SP, I also killed an entire fleet of the Rheinland military with my light fighter.

I vote agility, however some Gunboats could use some help------>Turret steering KILLED the poor Bottlenose and it could use some help. Its more a case by case basis.

...Yeah, the bottlenose definitely needs to be buffed.

Have you ever even fought one?

[Govedo13]

force gunboats to mount other loadouts than full primary which is the main reason for the nerf.
If there is anything I missed, point it out and I'll respond.

I think that all primary gb guns should be removed, together with some small changes on solaris and cerbs and P/Rs. The main problem with the gbs is not that they kill snubs well, they are supposed to do so, the problem is that they also kill everything well because the great versatility of the primary guns- they work well vs snubs, vs other gbs and vs caps. So one GB is really more useful then any other ship class in any group action.
If there were no primaries the GB pilots must choose against what they want to be effective- if they want to go anti-snub they use the Solaris guns( a bit weak DPS then now and a bit more speed) that have good accuracy and do no essential dmg vs other things.
Same story if they go full cerbs( energy effective,high DPS, 500-600 speed)- they rape transps other gbs and are also useful support vs caps but fail vs snubs.
P/R need less refire rate and more speed, so this loadouts would be more effective vs snubs and less effective vs caps.
I see no reason why primaries should exist really, also it balances the factions with better turrets together with the factions with not so good turrets.

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Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[TonyRistar]

Agreed. A gunboat is essentially the Eagle/Sabre/Titan of vanilla. That pinnacle of usefulness, Not only capable of fighting itself, but also faster and slower, and bigger and tougher things.

Force gunboats to choose a role. Much like we force cruisers. You can be artillery (Missiles) or kite (cerbs) or worthless (Razors/Pulses)

Same for Bships. GB's get a free ride due to primary turrets literally being too good. Just force GB's to actually pick what they want to kill, that way counters to GB's can actually be enabled, instead of a lulbomberswarm

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[Swallow]

Agreed. A gunboat is essentially the Eagle/Sabre/Titan of vanilla. That pinnacle of usefulness, Not only capable of fighting itself, but also faster and slower, and bigger and tougher things.

Force gunboats to choose a role. Much like we force cruisers. You can be artillery (Missiles) or kite (cerbs) or worthless (Razors/Pulses)

Same for Bships. GB's get a free ride due to primary turrets literally being too good. Just force GB's to actually pick what they want to kill, that way counters to GB's can actually be enabled, instead of a lulbomberswarm

That is the only reasonable solution I see so far.

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[SummerMcLovin]

Well as Blodo has said (being the one who's actually carrying out the changes), it'll be dropped to half damage or so.

While Govedo's suggestion does make people choose a more specialised role, I believe there should still be the reduced-in-effectiveness middle ground. Primaries become the "jack of all trades, master of none" in between Cerbs as the choice against bigger ships and the Pulse/Razor set up as the most effective against snubs (for those with the aim). Otherwise those who aren't good at sniping (and will struggle against them with Cerbs) will have no real defence against snubs - which is supposed to be their main role.

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Kingdom of Bretonia
Colonial Republic
Independent Miners Guild
Ex-Admin

[Hone]

Well you all make some good points, I'm not sure.

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[Jansen]

Forcing people to wrestle with interface "for balance" is a bad idea.

- remove/nerf turret zoom -> see argument above about wrestling with interface. Furthermore, turret zoom was reduced already and truth is if you fight on full zoom with gb = you can't really dodge SN at all so you just flail around the place. If you are fighting 2 bombers vs your 1 gunboat that essentially means death because one of the bombers will lay into you while the other dodges, and you can't even see that he does. Your only choice is to keep switching targets. But the constant target switching on good aim will be nerfed if gb primary dps/speed goes down. This will force gunboats to mount other loadouts than full primary which is the main reason for the nerf.

If there is anything I missed, point it out and I'll respond.

But where is the problem in bringing GBs back to the .85 status? They worked pretty good without TS and I doubt that its too hard to remove TS and TZ for them considering that it was done for Fighters before.
I'd rather have that option as it really brings back the fun to flying GBs.

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[Hone]

But where is the problem in bringing GBs back to the .85 status? They worked pretty good without TS and I doubt that its too hard to remove TS and TZ for them considering that it was done for Fighters before.
I'd rather have that option as it really brings back the fun to flying GBs.

Because turret steer (not zoom, thats gay) is a great feature, and most people like it. I would DEFINITELY not want turret steer removed.

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