(12-19-2012, 02:24 PM)monmarfori Wrote: Some cruisers can easily kill a battleship due to its hitboxes.
That is not a balance issue. If you fly a battleship alone, you are fair game for a well-flown cruiser or two or a bunch of bombers to hit you without any significant damage. Bringing some support next time or you'll be an easy target.
Okay.... As because of balance reasons mining factions cannot land at each other's bases (the only exemption is for Daumann and BMM due to RP written by the devs, and only for 2 bases), I found there's a loophole in that system.
IMG and DSE, 2 mining factions with common bonuses to ore, can land at each other's bases. Someone can say "but DSE doesn't do that much mining." Well, it does. DSE mined out entire Colorado, that's why they have the best bonus to silver in game. Again, you can say "but IMG outposts were originally built by DSE, Holman, FP4 and Freistadt". Yes they were, to construct lanes in their systems. DSE builds also lane for Daumann in Omega-11, yet they are rephacked as non-dockable to our bases, because of balance reasons, as former DHC asked for it.
DSE and IMG, mining factions with common bonuses to Silver, Copper and Platinum ores, should be rephacked as non-dockable to each other.
[2012-12-31 00:14:54] Aeternus Doleo: IMG does not have a platinum bonus. Samura, Kishiro and DSE do.
This is one big joke, that IMG has same bonuses to Cobalt, Copper, Silver, Gold and Beryllium ores like house factions. It shouldn't be more than x2.0 bonus, to just accent it's slightly better than generic miner ID.
(12-10-2012, 02:27 PM)Pavel Wrote: There are one-way only bottlenecks between Houses, O-7 and O-3, Sigma-13, Tau-31 and Tau-23. But there are 2 Independent Worlds systems leading to Liberty: Hudson and Bering, Galileo and Kepler, Cortez and Magellan. This discriminates trading between Houses other than Liberty.
Not really. The bottlenecks are inside the House space. Bretonia/Liberty: The lane leading from Birmingham to the London gate, everyone's favorite pirate spot at the California/New York gate... Anyone trading between Rheinland and Liberty is asking to get shot by both navies since that's a warzone, and come 4.87 those gates won't even work anymore. Kusari end has the lanes leading up from Deshima as bottleneck - Colorado not so much though. So you got a minor point there. But keep in mind that this design has been there since vanilla - wasn't our doing.
As for your IMG/DSE thing: What you are forgetting is that DSE not only built the lanes, but built the midway stations as well. Stations we now know as Holman, Freeport 4 and Freistadt. (Freeport 1, 2 and Ames as well, but those are Zoner bases now). DSE does maintenance to those stations according to several legacy infocards - so I don't really see the problem there. If you end up with DSE using Freistadt to mine Omega 7, toss that IRPly our way and there'll be a few FR5's - since the IMG may not harbor foreign corporations in Rheinie space and DSE is fully aware of that. Either way, I don't see your point with these docking right issues. I'm not opposed to removing them between mining corporations that do not directly compete - for instance, there's no docking denial between Samura/Kishiro and DSE even though both mine Platinum. It makes sense for the denial to exist between IMG/Daumann/Kruger, IMG/BMM and Daumann/BMM because these companies directly compete with eachother. I don't see a point for allowing DSE and Daumann to dock on eachothers bases personally - your houses are at war with eachother after all. So what exactly are you asking for here?
As for the mining bonuses, you've brought this up a number of times already, and I'll answer you the same way again. Yes, IMG has good bonuses. But IMG does not have THE BEST bonuses on any of the ores, except Niobium. There is always at least one corporation that has a factor 1 higher on the bonus to give the corporations an edge over the IMG (which has an easier time with most unlawfuls, but doesn't have the backing of house industries). Come 4.87 the mining system is getting an overhaul and this will become a moot point anyway. From memory, I don't have the config on hand: Daumann has top Aluminium (monopoly even) and Diamond at 4x, Kruger has top Cobalt and Silver. IMG has top Niobium, good Copper, Cobalt, Silver, Beryl and diminished Diamonds (which as far as I'm concerned can be dropped, was only for RP use like the Kruger bonus on Hfuel, but as far as I'm aware noone ever did anything with it).
I'll look into the platinum issue. There's no reason for IMG to have a platinum bonus as they don't have any zones where that resource can be mined (no platinum in their ZoI, which is the Omegas, Taus and Bretonia). I don't remember ever setting one but that could be an oops on my part. IMG| however has never mined platinum that I'm aware of (or I'd have checked this a whole lot sooner). If you were testing with a small ship, be aware that ANY ship using ANY guns can mine and get the default *0.5 bonus. On a pristine field, that means a small ship will fill up wether you have a mining bonus or not. It also means that escorts can assist with a mining operation slightly rather then just sitting idle - which is why that was put back in.
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Also, what's important is that generic miner gets 1.5-2.0 bonuses for everything, with average around 1.7
Another important thing is the risk factor which I just don't know.
I don't want to take any side in this discussion. Just supplying some info.
Thank you for info Mike. Certainly, risk factor is key factor in mining business, I'll explain it later.
@AD
DSE mining in O-7
Hmm, because mythical "Faction Rights" work at all on that server, especially that with number five, as even history of Omega-7 shows.
Unjustified IMG bonus to Platinium
If you look carefully at screens I provided, you can notice there are timestamps clearly showing mining such amount of ore in such short time with basic drop only is impossible, currently IMG can mine Platinum Ore.
"IMG has same bonuses as house factions and it's fine"
Quote:As for the mining bonuses, you've brought this up a number of times already, and I'll answer you the same way again. Yes, IMG has good bonuses. But IMG does not have THE BEST bonuses on any of the ores, except Niobium. There is always at least one corporation that has a factor 1 higher on the bonus to give the corporations an edge over the IMG (which has an easier time with most unlawfuls, but doesn't have the backing of house industries).
Yes, and I will keep bringing it up. IMG has zoner-like diplomacy with unlawfuls, except Taus doesn't have tough enemies (Outcast ID lacks even "may treat IMG as combat targets" line), is inRP tiny, loose confederation, pretty like Zoners, and generally mines small low-yield fields "that other corporations do not deem economically viable". IMG is not profit-focused, ( "The Independant Miners Guild is a largely socialist organization which focuses on providing labor and income for it's guild members. Not as profit-oriented as the larger house corporations" ) it's quite strange when people ask me can they earn more in some house faction like Daumann or BMM than in inRP non-profit organisation, and I have to deny it. I don't see how fact IMG has same bonuses to Cobalt or Copper like factions such as Daumann or Kruger can become moot point. Having better bonus to only one ore than IMG in situation when IMG has overpowered diplomacy is very, very, VERY little edge. If we speak about "backing of house industries", in gameplay from an ooRP perspective it means your own navy faction can kill you if you use "their" technology/ships without permission. One more "perk" of being house corporation than adding "Guild" to name and getting own shipline including capitals.
IMG should have lower bonuses to Cobalt, Copper, Silver, Beryllium, etc etc, than dedicated house miners, otherwise there's no point in playing as house faction, and that situation happened in that version, look at IMG activity and look at activity of house mining corporations.
Cool diplomacy? Sirius-wide ZOI? Trading EVERYWHERE including Gallia? Own shipline including capital ships? Bonus to all but two ores on the server? Very please, but at the price of lower bonuses.
Aluminium Ore
It is very good you mentioned that wonderful ore, every house mining faction should have own, mineable only by that faction, ore, like Daumann has aluminium. In a situation when it's impossible to mine Diamonds at peak hours as Daumann (fortunately Omega-11 is remade for next version, finally), and IMG has exactly same bonuses to Copper, Cobalt and Silver from Omega-7 as house factions, there's no incentive to join them, but to join IMG and IMG only.
Aluminium Ore is the last thing saving Daumann, otherwise with current mining balance that faction would be playable like Kruger or SynthFoods are now. If Daumann players should be grateful for fact their faction is playable at all, they indeed do have a reason for it.
Notabene it is untrue Daumann has monopoly over Aluminium, as far as I am aware of, GMS also has bonus to it and fields in Gallia.
Uncut Diamonds
I thought we already discussed whole thing and agreed that bonus will be dropped, not that it "can be" ? There's no inRP reason to give IMG bonus to Diamonds, and for sure it isn't Freeport 5 infocard. IMG built Freeport 5 because Guild tried to steal Artifacts from Gamma, of course they got kicked, in their place Zoners inhabited FP5 and here we are. Not to mine non-existant Omega-41 Diamonds. Like it or not, that's original Freelancer lore.
Giving already overpowered faction bonus to ore on a basis of one vague rumor without checking deeper background wasn't good move speaking from balance perspective, and was in very poor taste.
IMG mining Diamonds is like Daumann mining Niobium. "Stealing from O-11" or "hessians gave IMG diamond mining technology" or "IMG pretends to mine that ore" explanations why IMG got that bonus are the cheapest ones I ever heard. On that basis nothing stops house corporations from buying/stealing mining technical know-how. In addition Rheinland by its corporations is the sole producer of diamonds in Sirius; has monopoly over them, like Bretonia is monopolist when it comes to Gold. In a moment when Rheinland realized IMG dared to mine diamonds things would start happening. Unpleasant things, especially for Freistadt's crew.
All in all, current mining balance favors IMG over everything else, killed some dedicated house mining factions and is one big joke.
(01-15-2013, 06:58 PM)Pavel Wrote: DSE mining in O-7
We don't want them mining there either. Maybe the RFP could do something about the illegal corps in the region.
(01-15-2013, 06:58 PM)Pavel Wrote: Unjustified IMG bonus to Platinium
Which as far as I know is never used. And we're happy to lose in conjunction with the Uncut Diamonds bonus.
(01-15-2013, 06:58 PM)Pavel Wrote: "IMG has same bonuses as house factions and it's fine"
House Mining corporations have higher bonuses in their houses. The IMG are based in the Omegas and Taus, why should we not have the relevant "we have a presence here" bonus that Daumann and Kruger have in Omega-7?
(01-15-2013, 06:58 PM)Pavel Wrote: Notabene it is untrue Daumann has monopoly over Aluminium, as far as I am aware of, GMS also has bonus to it and fields in Gallia.
They have a 2x bonus on their field which is less than half the yield of the Munich one. Admittedly it's not a monopoly for Daumann, but mining in Gallia is pretty pointless for the moment.
IMG has the advantage of neutrality, caps, and good relations with many unlawfuls. I dont know the specifics, but theyr certainly the most popular mining faction in the game (Only official one?) when theyr meant to be the smallest. It seems that house factions need to get more bonuses, to encourage equal player share.
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Hone, youre at the wrong end of the chicken and egg. We have the relations and the player base because we have worked for them, by being fun to play with and being trustworthy to work with. and the ships follow the player base. That, and in and out of RP we need ships that can go toe-to-toe with the Outcasts and corsairs. or we wouldve been driven from the Taus long ago.
At least thats how ive seen it.
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(01-15-2013, 10:42 PM)Hone Wrote: IMG has the advantage of neutrality, caps, and good relations with many unlawfuls. I dont know the specifics, but theyr certainly the most popular mining faction in the game (Only official one?) when theyr meant to be the smallest. It seems that house factions need to get more bonuses, to encourage equal player share.
you sir have just explained the gmg down to the T.
