Judicial Order

[Shizune]

ok ok people lets calm down, as i see it, this threat is on its breaking point of a arggument-fest or the admins locking it (possibly)
I used to be Senior Cadet for the Judges, the fact is they train new players how to follow the game rules and how to fight, i would know. heck, i learned most of my combat skills from the judges, namely Logan, Cutter, Emmure and Dougle's. i will say this to, they have RP, just its a inside fraction RP. i mean, really if you owned a large fraction of combate trainers and hard-core trainers would it not be a bit hard to RP? also note no one gives them a chance anymore, tell me anyone here has given them one becides the LPI, LN/LNS or the LSF? the IC gave them a boughty mission and they work on it. also if you notice, the Judges do have RP outside of their training, they work as merc's sometimes, escort friends as needed, and protect each other. how often do you have a army that works together to achive on thing? like the LN/RM attacks? you got half the force following orders and the other half trying to fine the fire controls. thats not like the Judges, they got order and displine, 3 strikes your out of the fraction for good with 1 chance of renewal via ok from the commanders. I have to say, if not for the judges, i would not have the RP or respect ive have for them i have now. if i was not a cadet ever...? ever seen what happens when a lolwut OC dread attacks Manhattan? heh, but ya, im just dropping my post here for now them, cheers

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Lyoko Project Files
Project's Leader Aelita X. Stone.

[Teerin]

Apparently you guys are hostile to the Rheinland Lawfuls. You should edit your page to reflect this.

You should also find yourself a reason to shoot at Rheinland Lawfuls that is permissible by the server rules. As far as I can see, you have not joined any relevant bounty boards, nor have you been seen being hired to do so.

I haven't seen a response to this yet.

I fail to see anything about your group's zone of influence. And since I've seen a handful of you guys in Omicron-99 the other day - I wondered what your true place is. Unless some IC infectees activated a Nomad Gate aboard the Newark, which collapsed in upon itself and dragged the whole station and nearby ships into Omicron-99 - I don't see any other reason for you being there.

On that note, what is your standing with the Nomads, since they aren't listed under hostile?

A bit sarcastic on his note (but in a funny way). Zone of Influence?

I know I am usually trollish, sarcastic and so on, but I mean the following with complete seriousness:
Take a moment to seat back and think how you, as a faction, contribute to the server's RP. You wish to be something new, yet you are like Bounty Hunters that simply following the laws to the latter and never going off by the in-game RP you're having, you don't enrich the environment with which you interact inRP, you mostly stand still silently and maybe give occasional comment to the passing-by.

So with all due, answer the question: What you bring new to the mod, contribute to its RP and the general environment that you deserve an official status?

Again, I am not trolling, but some factions are simply best left unofficial. You could be either, it's all matter of what you plan to do.

Can you calmly explain what it is this faction contributes to the community?

Hours of activity are no measure of quality. Also, to be blunt, most of your members seem to be relatively new players. This is no false claim - I've roleplayed / spoken to a fair number, and quite a few of them are clearly very new to roleplay. That's not a problem, mind you. With guidance they'll get better. It's only good that you're guiding them.

However, that leads to this: your faction has many - active - members, and thus many hours of activity. And yes, a great amount of that activity is sitting on Newark. You can't deny that. I applaud any efforts to reduce that "hobby", however.

Now, as for your lore.. The main issue I take with it is that you're retconning lore and establishing yourself as a powerful, mighty faction, even though there has been no mention of your existence in the past. Slightly awkward. It also clashes with other factions' lore (Ageira, for one), and it would be wiser for you to discuss your plans with them first, and see if you can find a middle road everyone can agree with.

What I would personally suggest is that, if you truly wish to be the "UN of Sirius" - establish yourself now / a year ago, when your faction actually was founded. Build contacts. Instead of changing existing lore and doing so in a fashion that greatly benefits your in-roleplay "power" as a faction, set your faction up ingame. The UN was founded in real life. If you believe it could be founded in Sirius, do so now, instead of claiming it "already happened 500 years ago".

Just my two cents.

It would be good to adjust the Judges' history somewhat. Like Hasteric said later on, make it a more recently created faction.

And now we are all newbies? We have members including myself who started RP with D&D in 1973. Were most of you even alive then? Shall we provide references or perhaps a resume to convince you that you are not only wrong, but actively insulting?

...

The self righteous arrogance displayed by a small population to a faction trying to become official is deeply disappointing. It also seems some folks have trouble reading English. Go back and re-read the admission, then read the entire history of Disco, as we DID. Then determine how you would fit into the open spots. We are TRYING. You are NOT.

Sounds a bit arrogant himself, going on about playing original D&D.

I'm not trying to sound aggressive or hateful at all. I'm trying to help, like many others are.

I'll say it again, I'm trying to help. It doesn't do you any good to be snarky.

My main issue here is that you seem to be ignoring a lot of good suggestions. Because it doesn't matter if the person is smart, dumb, a troll, etc. After all, it's the Discovery Gaming Community. You need to LISTEN to people, admit when you are wrong, and change accordingly. They don't need to listen to you since it's not their faction request that is on the line. I agree, there shouldn't be flaming, but having a response/fix for and problems is good to have.

Also, ignoring people like Echo 7-7 by claiming you don't have to respond to him is a bad decision. He's part of the development team and therefore people, especially Admins, listen to him. And it's the Admins who vote whether or not you actually become official.

I'm not trying to sound aggressive or hateful at all. I'm trying to help, like many others are.

Your main issue is that we are ignoring a lot of good suggestions. Please can you point out the GOOD suggestions in the first 4 pages before your post.
1) You spend too much time camping at Newark - Why are you in O-99 then in CR space? Which one of these?
2) You shouldn't train inRP, that is what Conn is for (previous threads) - Why are you training in Conn? you can't RP there! Which of these?
3) Change your ID - question: Which one would suit our purpose? None exist!

Do I need to go on? Maybe you can tell us whose opinions we should listen.

The statements quoted above are of use, if you're willing to listen. I'll aslo say this again;

Because it doesn't matter if the person is smart, dumb, a troll, etc. After all, it's the Discovery Gaming Community.

Opinions are like a certain part of the Human Anatomy that is used for excrement - Everyone has one!

There is no need to get nasty at me here.

Ignoring people like Echo7-7'. His first real response to our thread was so full of sarcasm and arrogance that any natural person would just ignore it. As I said in my first post we don't object to criticism and suggestions but constructive comments are received better than sarcasm and arrogance.

He, like a normal person, got a bit frustrated. He's spent a lot of time on this mod and I guess he sorta went overboard. But he still has a point, so don't ignore it if you want to be the better person.

We have tried answering any questions that have come our way and even tried admitting that we didn't get everything right and we have/are changing things within our group.

As for RP I have seen Official Factions do Preset Message 1 then 2 and then shoot. I suppose it is another form of RP not one that I enjoy but, hey, they enjoy themselves!

As a member of a few official factions, I have never seen another member use preset messages, except for orders in group chat during combat. This is rather off topic though, let's return to the Judges.

Anyway, this should shed some light on what I meant. Again, I'm trying to help, so take it as you will.

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"You see what your knowledge tells you you're seeing. ... how, what you think the universe is, and how you react to that in everything you do, depends on what you know. And when that knowledge changes, for you, the universe changes. And that is as true for the whole of society as that is for the individual. We all are what we know, today. What we knew yesterday, was different; and so were we."
- James Burke, The Day the Universe Changed (1985)

[EFL Oil and Machinery]

Deleted

[Haste]

I don't think the best solution to get people to realize your faction is/can be an asset to the mod and community is to estrange said community.

And no, before someone goes around calling this a threat, it's not.

People have pointed out flaws and conflicts in and with your lore. I personally wonder why you're so hellbent on making your faction world-changingly powerful from the get-go, without considering that perhaps there's a reason your incredible awesomeness was never mentioned in history - because it didn't exist.

The faction ingame is young, and by no means a house-military-rivaling force. Why not make your lore resemble that?

Instead of considering what people have said to be constructive criticism, you take it as flaming/hate towards the faction you represent or even your person. Maybe it's not. Maybe it's just that. Constructive criticism.

[Echo 7-7]

On the subject of too much time in Conn:

8.4 Offical factions are obliged to balance Connecticut time with RP system time. Your primary duty is to play the RP role you elected to play not to spend all your time in Connecticut.

As I said before, it is not just how the faction sees itself - it is how the rest of the community sees the faction. Don't all be in Conn simultaneously - have no more than 5/10 there while the other 10 or whatever are out in Sirius doing things.

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...Until the Admins grant us Official Status (or don't, whichever) we cannot ask for an ID that would suit...

Bear in mind that gaining Official Status is not a ticket to your own ID - at least not initially. A faction is supposed to spend a significant amount of time on the server, enriching roleplay through interactions with other players and factions, before a request for a custom ID is considered. This can take a year or longer.

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A question which may have been asked earlier but I don't think was responded to (otherwise, here is a new question):

Why do the Judges require Official Status? What will you do with it? What can you do on this server with Officialdom that you cannot do already? If the response is "to get an ID" then I don't think that is a sufficient response.

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For those who have supported my line of inquiry, thank you. To make things clear, I don't have the ear of all the Admins (just some of them happen to be friends or friendly, hah). However, I'm not here as a member of the Dev team to say "the dev team will punish you for trying", nor to make suggestions to the Admins on the best course of action. I don't need to do that. They have
minds of their own, which are quite capable of reaching some form of consensus (when used). Unless an Admin has a burning question for the Judges, they won't post here. They will just observe. No one here has to impress me specifically - the Judges just need to show the Admins, through their words and actions, that they are ready for Official status. Personally, I don't think you're ready; if you were I wouldn't still be asking questions.

There is plenty of valid criticism here not posted by me, and from a less harsh perspective. If the Judges cannot even respond to that adequately... that should speak for itself.

Judges, don't miss the forest for the trees. Your faction is being criticised, and you are fighting back on the basis of the manner in which you are being criticised, rather than really addressing the content of the criticisms. If you wish to be elevated to a position of certain authority within the community, then you must first earn the respect and understanding of that same community.

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Content criticism: There is a distinct lack of Zone of Influence delineation in the OP, nor are there mentions to your home base. Faction diplomacy is also overly sparing.

This loophole is quite noticable with mentions of this Omicron-99 operation: How in seven hells does a Liberty-based organisation dedicated to, I don't know, guarding Newark, make its way to the farthest reaches of Sirius? Saying it was an exercise of "being dropped into hostile territory" is completely off the scale and demonstrates a lack of appreciation for ZoI as it commonly applies in Disco.

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To you on the EFL account: using a RP alt account to throw around criticism (or support) is rather un-cool. Don't do that. It's more gentlemanly to show your face. Or maybe it doesn't matter - just my opinion.

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There was a sig here, once.

[Harus]

I am just going to add my 2 cents of what I've seen from the Judges. Bear in mind I've not read anything other then what I've seen in game.

I've had some good encounters with them. Always willing to chat, though I only see them sitting on Newark Station. Seemed rather odd, but I figured maybe that was during their break times.

Also, I've noticed you guys log in to Connecticut with a lot of members (last time i checked there was at least 15+ Judge tagged ships) and I felt that was a little overwhelming. I personally don't think Connecticut should exists, but having that many tagged ships in one system is a little, redundant. It makes a lot of other people want to go to Connecticut as well if there's a lot of people there. And that's exactly what happened that day. 1/3rd of the server was in there, and i felt that was stupid.

Long story short, if you guys plan on having 20 people on, do Connecticut in sessions, not all at once. It ruins RP in rest of Sirus, especially with all the death messages killing RP chat.

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[Lonely Werewolf]

Well I've read through all the posts here but I still have a few questions to ask:

I still don't understand what it is you DO. I have of course seen you at Newark countless times, most of which you seem to throw the odd comment around. But we all know that, no need to go any further. But as for how your RP enriches the community, well I haven't seen any RP myself (of course I can't be everywhere at once, do please inform me ok, as I want to know). I've come across your ships a couple of times elsewhere in space (Coronado and once California I remember) but I never got any RP out of it. They either flew by or ignored me, fair enough if they had something important to do but I haven't seen it add to your RP with other individuals/groups/factions in the community.

Back to your RP and what you do, what presence do you have in the community? How does your Faction interact and affect others? It appears to in your lore (with being judges and reuniting etc) but how do you do any of that in-game? The majority of what we see is players doing, well almost nothing, not having any effect on their surroundings. You spend a lot of time training recruits which is commendable, but that doesn't enrich the server community, just makes you a training faction. Maybe if you even hunted pirates a bit more you'd have an effect on the server, but if you do that, there's not much different between you and BHG|

You have your faction lore/info which when I read did disturb me rather a lot. I feel Echo7-7 addressed a large amount of what I was worried about pretty well in his analysis, even if you didn't like his tone. Even besides that, it does seem far too OP for your group, which doesn't really have a community presence (in my opinion) as I stated in my last paragraph.

Somewhere back someone said that your RP is rather infaction, well that's fine by all means, however it doesn't add to the rest of the community, and I don't see what you becoming an official faction would do to boost that. So another question is why become an official faction? What does that change?

Maybe the best way to get across what I'm saying/asking is if someone just joined Freelancer and Discovery. They came to our server, and we started explaining to them all the factions. I could easily tell them all about what the corporations are and the Police, Militaries, pirates, nomads etc. But if a new person asked me "So who are the judges? What do they do? What is their role in Sirius" I really couldn't give an answer.

As I said at the start I am genuinely curious and do want to know how you are effecting server RP, so do please answer my questions if you have the time. As right now all I have seen is a group of people with a name, which has no effect me no matter what char/faction I fly past under.

[Connor]

I haven't got much to say, but instead of trying to make the Judges look really bad and picking every point and turning it around to attack the judges, *cough cough* Echo7-7 *Cough*, why dont you just say "Ah, well done for applying for official status. Good luck" or "Good luck guys, one little suggestions is that I think you should improve this, but other then that, good luck". This post shouldn't be turned into a flaming war

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[Omicron]

Just because everyone can get 500 millions to pay for this process, does not mean everyone will get it.

Fix the "lore", Echo is your best 'friend' here.

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[SummerMcLovin]

Max will be rather annoyed because you've been trying to involve yourself a lot with Ageira's lore, which is effectively his baby.

There is a middle ground between sitting on Newark and going to O-99.
As has been stated, activity is all well and good but not many people have actually been involved with the roleplay. Days worth of training or RPing between Judges isn't a lot for the rest of the community to enjoy.

Being in Coronado was fine. I would have liked a little more RP explanation of why one of your Cadets were dying to a (possibly lolwut) Brigand and the upper-rank Judges were sitting around, leaving me to have to defend him. Then I was left in California with again, little explanation until later. My character, Frost, just thinks to himself "crazy Judges and their training exercises" but other than a kill to scratch onto his Nyx I didn't feel particularly enriched by the encounter.

I'll reiterate this point:

I would just like to see some more external RP and movement

Rather than Judges doing their thing and me feeling like the audience/extra gun.



Oh, and for possible ways to take the faction.
If you are primarily upholding the law in Liberty and only really 'needing' to leave for this training exercise, why not use the Liberty Police ID? RP yourself as a less corrupt alternative to the actual LPI company and uphold justice instead of profits.

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Kingdom of Bretonia
Colonial Republic
Independent Miners Guild
Ex-Admin