Liberty Rules

[Praetyre]

Exactly what I aim to do, Brian. I myself know I'm not infallible, and I think I made a grievous error making the fines above 50 mil.

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[Kambei]

praetyre: and what do you say about 1 mil fine for newbs which buy some random military ship. Remember on your first days on server... how much was 1 mil for you?

question is still same: how do you want inform new players about your rules and pirate-like fines?

by the way: I have new tax for traders with LPI, LSF tags... normaly I ask traders for 1-2 mils but you are special guests:)20 milions per run or die if you meet [RHA]Shimada ou jea:crazy:

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[Praetyre]

As I said, common sense must be applied. Also, I generally avoid prosecuting underlevel players out of a sense of fairness, and avoid prosecuting under construction characters, who may simply be in the midst of making their character.

Also, I don't want to sound pedantic, but it's unlikely that a Red Hessian would encounter the Liberty government much, so imposing a fine on a non-trader group you won't encounter seems kind of.. pointless. Just saying.

Good for you. Like Badger said, you are acting like pirates do, as opposed to toll booths. It's a sad thing that many traders are not mature enough to RP fear of death.

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[Kambei]

its not pointless:)I met few =LSF= ships (mostly traders) every day :) but we are OT now

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[Praetyre]

I hate to sound preachy, but I would like to invite my opponents to write their own alternatives to a penal code which in their opinion fair. It should do what penal code does, punish, deter and frighten criminals, and should work in a realistic fashion (not allowing people to nick Defenders from Missouri or go into Zone 21, for example).

Feel free to post them here or to send them to me or other high ranking LN/LSF officials.

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[Kambei]

lvl taxes....for example: lvl 30-40 500K, lvl 40 - 50 1M, 50+... there can be aplied tax fines from first page.

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[Praetyre]

Well, in the case of someone not being able to pay, you could consider it a debt of sort, or we could reduce the sentence. Once again, common sense applied by the enforcers. And once again, underlevel players will be given a lot of leeway.

Plus, some crimes are more severe than others. Possessing Synthetic Marijuana is on a much lower level than stealing a Battleship, for example. How do you factor in that?

@Carmen Naso; Personal lawyers are people who try and find loopholes in the existing laws for their clients in the cases of criminal or civil defense or try to use the law to their advantage in cases of civil plaintiffhood. They are far more concerned with the judicial side of the law, except if it reaches to a constitutional level. The judiciary, if Liberty is anything like America, interprets the law, deciding sentences, it's specific applications, and so forth. The penal code itself is part of the legislature. Though there are some cases of judges in America striking down laws they view as unconstitutional, this behaviour is highly controversial and generally is applied to more specific laws (medical marijuana, eminent domain, homosexual marriages and the like) rather than more "common" laws like theft. No judge would strike down a law forbidding things like stealing military vehicles or impersonating generals as unconstitutional, and no lawyer would ever be able to argue against these kinds of laws in any US court. Cruel and unusual punishment exists, but financial penalties generally aren't regarded on the same level as the death penalty and waterboarding.

Governmental harassment or brutality in the application of the law occaisionally exists, but the majority of non-extreme behaviour is protected by qualified immunity. Wikipedia states;
"insofar as their conduct does not violate clearly established statutory or constitutional rights of which a reasonable person would have known.". The current applications are simply imposing penalties people don't like, which you can hardly blame a police officer for. The job of the police is to enforce the law, the job of the judges is to interpret the law, and it's the job of Congress and the Senate to make the law.

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[Kambei]

Once again, common sense applied by the enforcers

I saw LSF sense for situation many times an I must say it wasnt allways good experience (and in last few days we can see extremes... thats reason why smokers of sirius want protest - //events:D)

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[Praetyre]

Well, in your protest, you complained about neutral traders being killed for using a jumpgate (the Liberty government won't officially acknowledge a place called Alaska exists) which is named after a famously secure RL military base, has RESTRICTED AREA in big honking red letters on it's infocard, is surrounded by battleship killing mines, has "ANY UNAUTHORIZED SHIPS ATTEMPTING TO BREACH THE MINEFIELD OR ENTER ZONE 21 ITSELF WILL BE NULLIFIED WITHOUT EXEMPTION OR EXCEPTION" in all caps on the infocard, which a high ranking LSF (who are not police officers, but an intelligence service, for the record) commander (Juni) knew only that a jumpgate to an Alaska system existed in the heart of the minefield, and which bar rumours state is a don't-ever-ever-ever-ever-go-there-in-your-entire-life-or-the-Navy-will-blow-your-ship-to-smithereens, and is filled with military bases.

If you think it is unreasonable for the LSF to defend a place like that, I think we'll have to digress. It seems we hold very polarized opinions about what is reasonable and unreasonable for the Liberty government to do, and I don't think this argument is really constructive. Also, for the record, the possession (not dealing) of 500 tons or less of Synthetic Marijuana is legal, and won't incure any fine.

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[Malaclypse 666]

@ Carmen Naso: Sophie is the "Madam". I'm a rather hirsute and ugly male. If ya can't get my gender right, don't even expect my business.

@Praetyre: You've addressed one aspect of the incident with Sophie.. acknowledged. Hell, she didn't even mind paying the 1 Mil.

What you have not addressed is the bloody hodgepodge of characters who carried out her "arrest". I would suggest that the three SA/LSF fighters present would have been more than adequate for the task. She didn't ID the two BH Caps who were on the scene, but this twit "Viking" in a Lib Cruiser had absolutely no IFF, and was carrying contraband himself! Now, I find it hilarious that Sophie was the one who had to point out the Viking's contraband infraction while she was surrounded by lawfuls who were apparently ignorant of the fact themselves.

I don't really care that the SA pilot "vouched" for Viking. I do care about the fact that anyone with half a brain who claims to be a "lawful" can rush to the sight of an "arrest" like a bloody lynch mob, and the "officers" on the scene do nothing about it; and in fact, appear to condone it and gloat about it.

Pair o' digms,
Mal

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