Judicial Order

[St.Denis]

I will start with Sotha Sil and his little statement. Ganking single ships – this happened on Friday 5/4/13. The Judges were asked, by the LPI, to help out with a problem of some Pirates. They responded by send out a group of Fighters and 1 Bomber and followed the LPI’s lead. From what I gathered, as I arrived at the end of the battle, there were a GB and Destroyer near Alcatraz. The fight ended with the destruction of both enemy ships and the loss of 2 Judge Fighters. The GB was Mors Veau and the other ship was [AR]Lythrilux.

Now, I don’t know which ship Sotha was in charge of, as some people seem to have Alt Forum Accounts. But if you look at the Rogue Bounty Board at the recent screen shots of claims from Le Pew (the Judge kills where from this battle) the Judges are in Fighters and are mainly concentrating on the GB. If you look up to the kill of BHG Lux Ryder, look at how many Unlawfuls are in the group and how many Lawfuls there are! This battle started with the Pirates outnumbering the ‘good guys’ and eventually the tide of the battle changed (look closely at the 4 shots from that battle nicely presented by LePew). Neutrality! I don’t think we have said that we are maintaining neutrality with Pirates (maybe you know something I don’t!).

And if this isn’t the incident you were referring to then I apologise.


Now on to the Reavers.

I don’t understand your reference to “retconning should be avoided”. Please can you explain what you are referring to?

Now both of you refer to us not getting involved, in fights, with Unlawfuls, when LPI and BHG are being ‘ganked’ (hmm that word again!). Let me give you some history.

1) That fight we were involved in on Friday – we were asked by the LPI to assist. We gladly assisted and once the battle was ended the LN and LPI involved returned to NY, as we did, but yet again not one of the Judges were paid for our assistance. There are people out there that are ‘Honourable’ and do pay us when we get involved. These people we are more than willing to help at anytime. As per our ID payment must be due for us to be involved. Maybe we should ask for payment before we get involved but we assume that the debt will be honoured.

2) I have, as have other Judges, been attacked by Pirates whilst the LPI/LN/BHG have just sat there and watched. I was just recently attacked by a Pirate and his/her Freelancer ‘friend’. This started off as a bit of RP. The Pirate sat along the side of Trenton where the guns could not shoot him. An LPI came along and then promptly disappeared. A BH was sat outside Manhattan (he wasn’t afk). Neither of these did anything to the Pirate and even when the Pirate and his friend attack me the BH just sat and watched. But, hey, it is all part of the game regardless of in or out of RP!

3) We were asked to help LNS with some Pirates who were camped, in California, at the NY/Cali JG. We went, but seemingly the LNS ship never turned up, when we got there we were met by a few Outcasts, which we engaged, but surprise! Surprise! Within a few minutes a whole group of Pirates, Outcasts and Reavers turned up in a mixture of Fighters and GBs. Nice ambush! We later heard from some of our sources that it was a set up.

4) We have been asked to help in fights where LNS Capital Ships have been ‘swarmed’ by Fighters and Bombers. We have duly turned up to the fight and somehow the Capital Ships have managed to ‘accidently’ kill a few of the Judges ships but spookily enough none of the enemy ships. Maybe I should put this down to mere coincidence!

5) We, during one of our Wednesday Training Sessions, agreed to escort Bowex from Bretonia to Liberty once we had finished training. We duly set off from NY and (oh the coincidence of it!) we were beset upon by a group (yes here they come again!) Pirates, Outcasts and Reavers. Now I wonder how they knew that we were leaving our ‘seats’ at Newark and where we were heading. Hmm we must be the unluckiest group in the whole GAME! So that ended ‘spoiling’ a bit of RP that one of the Judges had set up. (not that we ever RP!)

I am not accusing anybody in particular but I know there are Groups of people who seem to have permanently opened multiple Skype chats from different Factions. Some of the Judges also happen to be in some of these ‘Chats’ as are people who are ‘friendly’ with us. We ‘hear’, one way or the other, that the chatter becomes animated when the Judges are around in large groups. We can ‘see’ certain Characters suddenly ’logging on’. Now if this isn’t Meta-gaming and certain people trying to ‘spoil’ others enjoyment of the game I don’t know what is!

As for the LR Bounty on the Judges (which a few people have jumped on the proverbial bandwagon), this was set up on a pretty slim pretext by somebody who in his own words “did it to **** off the Judges”. We have lived with it and Yes it did **** us off! But we have carried on nevertheless!

So if at times we don’t feel like helping others that is our prerogative! It may or may not be in RP but so is a lot or what our ‘adversaries’ do to cause the Judges harm.

And finally I and the Leaders of the Judges read all the posts. We try to answer those that bring up legitimate points requiring an answer.

---

'I would like to be half as clever as some people like to believe they are'
Life is full of disappointments, it is how we handle them that helps to define us, as a person

[Haste]

I don’t understand your reference to “retconning should be avoided”. Please can you explain what you are referring to?

Retroactive Continuity. You are inserting yourself into existing lore, without any mention whatsoever in the past, while claiming to have a long history (in which you presumably did things that would be remembered to this day). You are affecting other factions' lore - Liberty Navy (by saying you were the primary law enforcement before they were), Ageira (by stating you guarded their technology) and such. There's also other issues already stated. Echo's posts are a good reference for pretty much all of these.

2) I have, as have other Judges, been attacked by Pirates whilst the LPI/LN/BHG have just sat there and watched. I was just recently attacked by a Pirate and his/her Freelancer ‘friend’. This started off as a bit of RP. The Pirate sat along the side of Trenton where the guns could not shoot him. An LPI came along and then promptly disappeared. A BH was sat outside Manhattan (he wasn’t afk). Neither of these did anything to the Pirate and even when the Pirate and his friend attack me the BH just sat and watched. But, hey, it is all part of the game regardless of in or out of RP!

Perhaps these players - LPI, BHG, whoever - stayed out because it was more fair that way. Unlike your own faction, not everyone uses all the force at their disposal, such as your five-versus-ones I've frequently gotten to enjoy (with me being the "one" side). Fact is, if a lone pirate attacks a lone Judge - perhaps they should defend themselves instead of try and get the entire Navy fleet to pile on the pirate?

3) We were asked to help LNS with some Pirates who were camped, in California, at the NY/Cali JG. We went, but seemingly the LNS ship never turned up, when we got there we were met by a few Outcasts, which we engaged, but surprise! Surprise! Within a few minutes a whole group of Pirates, Outcasts and Reavers turned up in a mixture of Fighters and GBs. Nice ambush! We later heard from some of our sources that it was a set up.

4) We have been asked to help in fights where LNS Capital Ships have been ‘swarmed’ by Fighters and Bombers. We have duly turned up to the fight and somehow the Capital Ships have managed to ‘accidently’ kill a few of the Judges ships but spookily enough none of the enemy ships. Maybe I should put this down to mere coincidence!

I've fought the Judges a few times, and none of those times were "set ups". Don't get too paranoid.

5) We, during one of our Wednesday Training Sessions, agreed to escort Bowex from Bretonia to Liberty once we had finished training. We duly set off from NY and (oh the coincidence of it!) we were beset upon by a group (yes here they come again!) Pirates, Outcasts and Reavers. Now I wonder how they knew that we were leaving our ‘seats’ at Newark and where we were heading. Hmm we must be the unluckiest group in the whole GAME! So that ended ‘spoiling’ a bit of RP that one of the Judges had set up. (not that we ever RP!)

Right. This one. Here's the exact order of events: I followed you (plural) from West Point, all the time in range to drop a lane or fire a disruptor. I didn't. Instead, I followed you to California to see what you were doing. After I jumped there, one of the Judges forming the "tail" of your group fired at the lane. It appeared they wanted a fight, because otherwise they could've just mined the lane instead of shooting it and sitting next to it. Therefore - and because of the bounty, of course -, I engaged. A few Judges then returned to shoot me - eventually leading to a five versus one. No problem, as a few Rogues and other assorted scum showed up to even the odds.

Frankly, not only did you provoke it yourself, but I don't think calling every unforseen conflict or interaction with other players "Spoiling roleplay" is a healthy way of looking at things.

I am not accusing anybody in particular but I know there are Groups of people who seem to have permanently opened multiple Skype chats from different Factions. Some of the Judges also happen to be in some of these ‘Chats’ as are people who are ‘friendly’ with us. We ‘hear’, one way or the other, that the chatter becomes animated when the Judges are around in large groups. We can ‘see’ certain Characters suddenly ’logging on’. Now if this isn’t Meta-gaming and certain people trying to ‘spoil’ others enjoyment of the game I don’t know what is!

I'll admit any day of the week that I find myself logging into a specific area if I see a high concentration of bountied players in said area (as a Reaver). Love it, hate it, but in the end - realize that everyone does it. People use it inRP more often than not - "long-range scanners" and the likes.

I suspect you'll find that even the holiest of roleplaying saints use the player list. It's simply a way to shave off some time spent finding people to interact with, meaning you end up with more time spent actually interacting (be that with guns or chatter).

Closing words: I'm not sure why, but your post makes you sound like you feel everyone is "out to get you". If you're shot, it's because people are trying to ruin your day. If you're found by people who want to shoot you, they metagamed to do it. If LNS- players don't show up in a conflict, you assume they lured you in and stayed away to get you killed.

Maybe it's just bad luck. Maybe they're not incredibly evil, sadistic people out to ruin your life.

[St.Denis]

Unlike your own faction, not everyone uses all the force at their disposal, such as your five-versus-ones I've frequently gotten to enjoy (with me being the "one" side)

I cannot, for the life of me, remember when the Judges have logged in and gone out actively hunted the Reavers. So I suggest that most, if not all, encounters have involved you coming on some Judges and generally with minimal RP attacked them. I suppose in the interest of 'fair play' we should line up the Judges and fight you one by one. That way you can collect a handful of bounties in one go and having fought a completely fair fight. It doesn't matter that you spend an awful amount of time practicing your Trade of killing people and have become very competent at that Trade. Not everybody is interested in spending most of their time fighting!.

Nobody fights fair and that even includes the Reavers!

I suspect you'll find that even the holiest of roleplaying saints use the player list. It's simply a way to shave off some time spent finding people to interact with, meaning you end up with more time spent actually interacting (be that with guns or chatter).

Yes I agree most of us probably use the Player List but not all of us use it to go and 'kill' other characters. But your statement just sounds like you are justifying why you do it! If everybody else puts their heads in the oven, do you?

I've fought the Judges a few times, and none of those times were "set ups". Don't get too paranoid.

I never said that every/most fights were a conspiracy and I never accused you of being involved in any. I just pointed what has been noticed.

Right. This one. Here's the exact order of events: I followed you (plural) from West Point, all the time in range to drop a lane or fire a disruptor. I didn't. Instead, I followed you to California to see what you were doing. After I jumped there, one of the Judges forming the "tail" of your group fired at the lane. It appeared they wanted a fight, because otherwise they could've just mined the lane instead of shooting it and sitting next to it. Therefore - and because of the bounty, of course -, I engaged. A few Judges then returned to shoot me - eventually leading to a five versus one. No problem, as a few Rogues and other assorted scum showed up to even the odds.

I have spoken to the Judges involved in this incident and I was told a different sequence of events. But you have your version and we have our version, so we will have to agree to disagree over what actually transpired.

Closing words: I'm not sure why, but your post makes you sound like you feel everyone is "out to get you". If you're shot, it's because people are trying to ruin your day. If you're found by people who want to shoot you, they metagamed to do it. If LNS- players don't show up in a conflict, you assume they lured you in and stayed away to get you killed.

Maybe it's just bad luck. Maybe they're not incredibly evil, sadistic people out to ruin your life.

I am sure that I didn't say that everybody is out to get us. These are your words, i just pointed out some facts.

My closing words (which I left out of the post above due to not wanting to inflame anybody); I just wish some people would have the honesty to actually own up and speak the truth (and yet again I am not pointing the finger at anybody). I already mentioned that we have eyes and ears in certain Skype Chats and I have no reason to disbelieve what I am being told. Live behind your screens and believe, that in some way, you are holier than thou.

---

'I would like to be half as clever as some people like to believe they are'
Life is full of disappointments, it is how we handle them that helps to define us, as a person

[Haste]

Nobody fights fair and that even includes the Reavers!

We try. If players don't, they're generally told not to do whatever they did that was considered "unfair". Simple.

I agree that one versus one is not by definition fair - in the Judges' case, and this isn't meant as an insult, it's simply highly unlikely that such a fight would be won.

I wouldn't even mind a one versus two or so. But throwing five, or even seven or eight (I've seen it all) Eagles at one fighter is.. Overdoing it.

Yes I agree most of us probably use the Player List but not all of us use it to go and 'kill' other characters. But your statement just sounds like you are justifying why you do it! If everybody else puts their heads in the oven, do you?

So. Some people have characters that kill things. If they use the player list, they use it to find targets. Kind of logical.

I also have a Nomad "character" that is roleplay-heavy, a trader, a cop, and so forth. I sometimes use the player list to find roleplaying encounters for those, too.

As for justifying it - I just told you I do it to find encounters. No more, no less. What you make of that is up to you.

I have spoken to the Judges involved in this incident and I was told a different sequence of events. But you have your version and we have our version, so we will have to agree to disagree over what actually transpired.

I'm afraid you're going to have to have some talks with said Judges. I didn't leave anything out, nor did I change anything. Simple. If people stated something went differently (the lane-dropping part, I'm assuming), I'm afraid they couldn't help themselves and lied to you to make me look like a more evil person.

One moment, let me just sacrifice a newborn in the center of this pentagram.

[AeternusDoleo]

Right, after a helpful Judges member pointed me to their lore reference page, here's some observations.

From a player standpoint:
- Your goal of "Reuniting the colonies" is novel. A sort-of UN charter to lay some ground rules to allow humanity in Sirius to operate as a whole in times of need coincides a lot with the Order's mission statement. However, some of the factions that would agree with you (Blood Dragons, Bundshuh) are caught as your enemies under the "Bring order to a chaotic universe / stem the tide of piracy" statements. Those goals are in conflict with eachother since the House goverments themselves are not in favor of unification. So those two goals can't be combined in the Discovery GC setting.

- Your faction will need to make a choice. Be an universal lawful mercenary group focused on counter-piracy - which would put you in the same role as the Bounty Hunters Guild, but with a moral high ground claim which could lead you into problems when corporations are proven to be without morals. The Reapers of Sirius are going on a similar tour, so that idea isn't new. OR be a politically oriented group which tries to use it's influence to unification. This would have you become allies only with political idealists. House megacorporations have no interest in unification, and neither do their governments which would see their power wane in favor of a pan-Sirian government. This would end up pushing the Judges in an unlawful direction for most houses.

- Consider changing the title of your faction lore pace to "The Judicial Order (The Judges)" so that the forum search will pick up on it when players search for "Judges". I did that, and was unable to find your lore page until one of your members pointed it out to me.



From a dev standpoint:
Your faction history has some SERIOUS issues that are not unifyable with the DiscoGC and vanilla lore.
- The early years of Liberty did not see any notable piracy, and the Liberty Navy oversaw safety for it's colonies. Unless the Judges were historically a branch of the Liberty Navy (or Order of Cincinnatus and later LSF) they would not have been involved with orbital safety in those times.

- They would also not have been able to oversee Valhalla unless they would fall directly under the highest ranks of the Liberty Navy. If they wanted to break away and go rogue at any point after being involved with Valhalla, the Liberty Navy would have forcefully brought them back into their fold. The stakes were simply too high at the time to let people involved with Valhalla walk away, possibly to sell the secrets to other houses.

- The Jump Gate projects from Valhalla started around 125 A.S., planned by the Order of Cincinnatus. The first successful test was in 130 A.S., the first functional gate (Texas/Alaska) was finished in 180 A.S., and security of these gates was still a MILITARY affair, not some civilian space militia. If your faction was no longer under the Liberty Navy control, they would not have been involved with jumpgate security AT ALL. At most, they'd be an organisation similar to the Liberty Police Inc., tasked with planetary safety and crime surpression. Given that the LPI eventually became the main police contractor in Liberty, that would suggest the Judges got edged out of that market.

- There was no market for any space militia/PMC until crime began to increase around 380 A.S. - Your faction could not have seen "widespread growth" as claimed in your lore before that time, and even after that it is unlikely since again, the LPI became the chief police force in Liberty. (Note: Your writeup, with a few tweaks, would make a good LPI backstory).

- The "Library" base you mention would be virtually impossible to maintain within any house. It is plausible for it to have been set up in one of the vanilla Independent Worlds - or even on Planet Curacao. The Boormann Treaty would have guaranteed it's independence from any house. Keeping it's location secret, given the amount of resources needed to build up a base in a time where there weren't even any lanes, is very implausible.

- This war in Bretonia in 317 A.S. I can't find any historical references to. Is that a fabrication? If so, your faction lore attempts to set the back story for several Bretonian factions, which is basically the lore version of powergaming. Official vanilla lore has Liberty bailing Bretonia out of a financial collapse around 271 A.S., which should have stabilised the house.

- You set your faction history as being allies of the Blood Dragons. This conflicts with your anti-piracy mission statement.

- The post-80 year war mission statement of the group simply being focused around the protection of a single library is rather implausible to me: Only academics would seek to use such a library, and FTL communication had been made possible since the Liberty Communication Corps established FTL buoy commlines between the houses as early as 118 A.S., so any publically available knowledge would have been accessible on any planet or base already. If the Judges were hoarding classified intel (especially if it was stolen from Valhalla) the Liberty Navy would have sought out and destroyed them utterly as Liberty's existance depended largely on the Valhalla monopolies at the time.

- Hiring the "smartest scientists" and "best pilots" is ambiguous. A quantum physicist wouldn't be helpful in xenoarcheological studies for instance. Clarify what fields of research you were following. "All research" is not acceptable. Doing weapons research or any research that could potentially threaten the security of the houses would draw the attention of said houses.

- Please tell me that this "Project Leviathan" reference is not a cheesy attempt to get an SRP superdread, or claim to be the constructing party of the Zoner Supercarrier.

- Being "attacked by an unknown military force" in 720 A.S. that destroyed their base? There are only a few organisations at the time who had the capabilities for such an attack. The only unknown ones would be the Order and the Nomads. Nomad infestation and subsequent annihilation of a large portion of the Judges by the Order is plausible.

---

Wide awake in a world that sleeps, enduring thoughts, enduring scenes. The knowledge of what is yet to come.
From a time when all seems lost, from a dead man to a world, without restraint, unafraid and free.

Mostly retired Discovery member. May still visit from time to time.

[jammi]

The references to the Bretonian civil war were actually written by the Bretonian players themselves 3-4 years ago. The judges probably inserted it into the backstory after some thorough wiki research.

The civil war was instigated by working conditions on Leeds and the tyranny of the crown princes, more than economic conditions. It was a populist war, which later resulted in the restoration of the monarchy with capped powers. So a bit like England's actual civil war.

---

News article library, feedback and content requests.

[SothaSil]

I will start with Sotha Sil and his little statement. Ganking single ships – this happened on Friday 5/4/13. The Judges were asked, by the LPI, to help out with a problem of some Pirates. They responded by send out a group of Fighters and 1 Bomber and followed the LPI’s lead. From what I gathered, as I arrived at the end of the battle, there were a GB and Destroyer near Alcatraz. The fight ended with the destruction of both enemy ships and the loss of 2 Judge Fighters. The GB was Mors Veau and the other ship was [AR]Lythrilux.

Now, I don’t know which ship Sotha was in charge of, as some people seem to have Alt Forum Accounts. But if you look at the Rogue Bounty Board at the recent screen shots of claims from Le Pew (the Judge kills where from this battle) the Judges are in Fighters and are mainly concentrating on the GB. If you look up to the kill of BHG Lux Ryder, look at how many Unlawfuls are in the group and how many Lawfuls there are! This battle started with the Pirates outnumbering the ‘good guys’ and eventually the tide of the battle changed (look closely at the 4 shots from that battle nicely presented by LePew). Neutrality! I don’t think we have said that we are maintaining neutrality with Pirates (maybe you know something I don’t!).

And if this isn’t the incident you were referring to then I apologise.

I'm neither Mors Veau, nor [AR]Lythrilux. I also don't have an alternative forum account.

[JudgeYohance]

I am sorry you had trouble finding the lore page. Let me try to answer a few of your questions and statements.

"- Your goal of "Reuniting the colonies" is novel. A sort-of UN charter to lay some ground rules to allow humanity in Sirius to operate as a whole in times of need coincides a lot with the Order's mission statement. However, some of the factions that would agree with you (Blood Dragons, Bundshuh) are caught as your enemies under the "Bring order to a chaotic universe / stem the tide of piracy" statements. Those goals are in conflict with eachother since the House goverments themselves are not in favor of unification. So those two goals can't be combined in the Discovery GC setting."

You are correct to some extent. I personally see the Blood Dragons closer to this then Bundshuh since the former were the government thrown into exile while the Bundshuh are more of a rebellious group of Rheinland. (I'll come back to this one since you mention this again later in the post).

" - Your faction will need to make a choice. Be an universal lawful mercenary group focused on counter-piracy - which would put you in the same role as the Bounty Hunters Guild, but with a moral high ground claim which could lead you into problems when corporations are proven to be without morals. The Reapers of Sirius are going on a similar tour, so that idea isn't new. OR be a politically oriented group which tries to use it's influence to unification. This would have you become allies only with political idealists. House megacorporations have no interest in unification, and neither do their governments which would see their power wane in favor of a pan-Sirian government. This would end up pushing the Judges in an unlawful direction for most houses."

There is a mid ground between the two choices you are listing that is actually our primary goal. I agree with you about the megacorps, some of our deals with a few of them have shown that. I also agree that on a general level the houses aren't interested in unification. That said the current RP realm of Sirius is actually already setting roots that we are trying to work with that can lead towards our goal. You have Bretonia and Rheinland both near crippled within the RP as a result of their wars. Kusari was left with a large portion of the fleet left in Bretonia and the rest of the house in a weakened state. You also have Liberty which just finished one bloody war and is about to enter another against Gallia.

I am currently writing several concept ideas on how to utilize these scenarios best for our goals but it gives us room to maneuver. The best way to unite humanity throughout history has always been to bring them to the brink. The current RP around Disco gives us a pretty good Brink to work with.

" - The early years of Liberty did not see any notable piracy, and the Liberty Navy oversaw safety for it's colonies. Unless the Judges were historically a branch of the Liberty Navy (or Order of Cincinnatus and later LSF) they would not have been involved with orbital safety in those times."

" - They would also not have been able to oversee Valhalla unless they would fall directly under the highest ranks of the Liberty Navy. If they wanted to break away and go rogue at any point after being involved with Valhalla, the Liberty Navy would have forcefully brought them back into their fold. The stakes were simply too high at the time to let people involved with Valhalla walk away, possibly to sell the secrets to other houses."

Before I get to far into this one, can I be sent a link to this information on the LSF in your next post please. All the information I found on LSF lore does not begin until 528 A.S. and the Order of Cincinnatus while was mentioned in that lore, had no date attached to it that I could find and no separate page of it's own .

I tried very carefully to craft everything to fit into "gaps" in the RP of all the established factions I knew we would be walking into. Liberty Navy according to the established lore does not exist until 230 A.S.. Near as I could tell, from the readings, their isn't any established lore about much of Liberty outside Ageria's lore prior to that date. The lore I created for this point had two goals in mind. Give us a heritage point to create an "old cast" of the group followed by a "new cast". The second being a means to pull us from Liberty prior to the creation of the navy.

"- The Jump Gate projects from Valhalla started around 125 A.S., planned by the Order of Cincinnatus. The first successful test was in 130 A.S., the first functional gate (Texas/Alaska) was finished in 180 A.S., and security of these gates was still a MILITARY affair, not some civilian space militia. If your faction was no longer under the Liberty Navy control, they would not have been involved with jumpgate security AT ALL. At most, they'd be an organisation similar to the Liberty Police Inc., tasked with planetary safety and crime surpression. Given that the LPI eventually became the main police contractor in Liberty, that would suggest the Judges got edged out of that market."

Here I did take license. As the official player faction does not exist, I simply utilized the original vanilla lore and ignored most of the player faction created one. After checking on a few other faction lore's and noticing some re-writes that were done when new groups replaced other ones, the feeling I got was as the official faction no longer exists and a rebirth of the group would be in their right to change it, I chose to work around it. If you feel that is wrong, I am sorry. My feeling is that as an unused lore, it can be chosen to follow or not. That said, depending on the LSF lore you are mentioning that I can't find, I will make the needed changes to make it cleaner.

Agree with that or not, as to the rest, keep in mind those other groups (with the possible exception of the mentioned Order of Cincinnatus which I will re-write to match against if you can get me a link to this particular lore), don't exist yet. I placed us in as the military that would have been used. Further, as the technology spread fast to the other houses shortly afterwards, it would make sense that Ageria would no longer be using one house military to protect the technology and would need something with better reach and a less house driven agenda to do so.

" - The "Library" base you mention would be virtually impossible to maintain within any house. It is plausible for it to have been set up in one of the vanilla Independent Worlds - or even on Planet Curacao. The Boormann Treaty would have guaranteed it's independence from any house. Keeping it's location secret, given the amount of resources needed to build up a base in a time where there weren't even any lanes, is very implausible."

I agree with virtually everything you are saying here. Which is why I intentionally did not mention in the lore where the base was on purpose. Nor did I mention what type of base it was for the same reason and kept in vague on how we could fund it. I have RP story attachments prepared for the future about this but for now I want it kept vague so I have work room depending on what paths we end up taking in the game RP later on.

Keep in mind that the rest of the RP in our lore indicates that we lost most of our own records upon it's destruction. Part of that vagueness comes from the fact that we don't have all the construction records left. The other part is because if I reveal the current working idea I have written for this, it ruins my wiggle room elsewhere in the RP for the time being.

" - This war in Bretonia in 317 A.S. I can't find any historical references to. Is that a fabrication? If so, your faction lore attempts to set the back story for several Bretonian factions, which is basically the lore version of powergaming. Official vanilla lore has Liberty bailing Bretonia out of a financial collapse around 271 A.S., which should have stabilised the house."

Jammi already said it but just to restate. I did take this directly from the BAF lore. I truly was trying to be careful not to step on toes as best I could.

" - You set your faction history as being allies of the Blood Dragons. This conflicts with your anti-piracy mission statement."

Not quite, at this point, the BD is the "true" government of Kusari in running exile. Since we would have been working with the government, it makes sense we would have supported them in a time of need. That support subsequently bit us in the butt for the long haul. I don't have us allied per se, but rather a small shared history. Whether or not this matters centuries later is up for the RP to decide. It was an addition to give us a reason to be thrown from Kusari and also to give us an added RP route to use or not later on. For now, we consider them a neutral party.

" - The post-80 year war mission statement of the group simply being focused around the protection of a single library is rather implausible to me: Only academics would seek to use such a library, and FTL communication had been made possible since the Liberty Communication Corps established FTL buoy commlines between the houses as early as 118 A.S., so any publically available knowledge would have been accessible on any planet or base already. If the Judges were hoarding classified intel (especially if it was stolen from Valhalla) the Liberty Navy would have sought out and destroyed them utterly as Liberty's existance depended largely on the Valhalla monopolies at the time."

"- Hiring the "smartest scientists" and "best pilots" is ambiguous. A quantum physicist wouldn't be helpful in xenoarcheological studies for instance. Clarify what fields of research you were following. "All research" is not acceptable. Doing weapons research or any research that could potentially threaten the security of the houses would draw the attention of said houses."

"- Being "attacked by an unknown military force" in 720 A.S. that destroyed their base? There are only a few organisations at the time who had the capabilities for such an attack. The only unknown ones would be the Order and the Nomads. Nomad infestation and subsequent annihilation of a large portion of the Judges by the Order is plausible."

I am putting these three together because you actually got half way to the answer on your own with these statements. Think about the modern day internet and the use of something like wikipedia. We all have access to it, so why do we bother with Libraries at all? I agree that academics would be the primary people seeking us out and that is exactly what we would have wanted. As for the rest, your choices are not bad ones but I actually had another possibility in mind but again, I am keeping this vague until some RP decisions are made in the game world. I wanted room to evolve these things over time based on in game events rather then set them in stone right now. It's a double edged sword as it does make it occasionally hard to follow what we are going to do next, but it also gives that evolving RP.

" - Please tell me that this "Project Leviathan" reference is not a cheesy attempt to get an SRP superdread, or claim to be the constructing party of the Zoner Supercarrier."

Dear god no. I have ZERO intention of trying for something like that. I can't tell you the number of "RP stories" I read that justify some of the bigger ships flying about that simply left me confused and annoyed. This is another RP idea I am kicking around for future use which I placed in as something we can embrace or throw away depending on later events. The vagueness on this also is connected to why I didn't make it specific what kind of "Smart scientists" we were trying to recruit.

I hope I answered everything for you. I know my style can be a little frustrating in how much I don't explain . I try to write RP under the premise of a constant evolving and changing system. As such, my lore stories are almost always have very detailed information and half barely intelligible. The balance is always aimed at leaving just enough to make you want to hear more and to give me the room to make that happen.

If you can provide me with this former LSF variant lore then I will do some corrections to avoid stepping on those toes. When I found the Wiki page was blank, I simply assumed it was an unfulfilled place holder. If I was wrong on that I do apologize and I will make corrections needed to not injure that lore.

Judge Senior Yohance

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BIS Judge Core Info

BIS Judge Core Message Dump

BIS Judge Core Recruitment Thread

[AeternusDoleo]

http://hendrik0.home.xs4all.nl/Freelance...erview.pdf

Here's a copy of the original backstory of Freelancer as written by Chris Roberts. The Order of Cincinnatus is essentially the precursor to both "The Order" and the LSF - formed by elements of the nascent Liberty state (including the sleeper ship AI) who realised that the democratic nature of Liberty was a direct threat to its existance. The Order of Cincinnatus mission statement is essentially the same as that of the LSF: Protect Liberty interests, whatever they are, wherever they are, whatever the cost.

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Wide awake in a world that sleeps, enduring thoughts, enduring scenes. The knowledge of what is yet to come.
From a time when all seems lost, from a dead man to a world, without restraint, unafraid and free.

Mostly retired Discovery member. May still visit from time to time.

[Xelon]

-snip-

As the official player faction does not exist, I simply utilized the original vanilla lore and ignored most of the player faction created one. After checking on a few other faction lore's and noticing some re-writes that were done when new groups replaced other ones, the feeling I got was as the official faction no longer exists and a rebirth of the group would be in their right to change it, I chose to work around it. If you feel that is wrong, I am sorry. My feeling is that as an unused lore, it can be chosen to follow or not. That said, depending on the LSF lore you are mentioning that I can't find, I will make the needed changes to make it cleaner.

-snap-

It is true that when a new group gets official they take their right to change the lore of their faction to an extend.
(Note that I'm talking about small changes since bigger ones would need to go over the Admins Devs iirc)

But... if a Faction isn't official say like Gateway or Ageira you can't just ignore the lore that has been created by those Players which have been integrated into the Lore of Discovery, much work has been invested by such groups and to just say: "you're not official so it doesn't belong into the lore anymore" should never occure.

If you were to make a new group and get it official you can rewrite it as you see fit. (and the Devs/Admins/storylead agree)

My two cents to that.

Regards Xelon

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