Abuse of Power Complaint to Admins Via Bretonian War Cabinet/BAF

[FallenKnight]

I never blamed Summer Name me an evidence where I blame him? We two talked on Skype and no result camed out, also this thread happend.

The base got killed ooRP and it was just 1 guy involved. SummerMcLovin not the whole government aslong he don't gets me an evidence that the war cabinet has voted about it's destruction as he said on Skype.

Jonna, you and a lot others already mentioned in the last 17 pages several times that "Summer" did something wrong. I already explained you above that Summer did nothing on his own. Just because he had to be the executioner doesnt make him a violator of any law. If you cant understand me, then re-read my post above cuz I dont like to repeat myself and reposting things again and again.
War Cabiner (all factions) voted against the mistakes of your base. Mistakes which inRP(and only inRP) brought the destruction of several ships in territory of House Bretonia. Such actions can lead to jail for your char and even worst. Again "RP consequences are RP consequences not some kind of OORP consipiracy".

Nah, this is same as :When Your pirating on a Lane and I'm a LN Fighter and goin to call navy via Skype. And you shoot me while the time without RP in reason : You could have alarmed ´navy dai!

Your example is, as I found out in other of your posts, very very bad. You need some education about Discovery Rp, ingame Rp, Forum RP, SkypeRp. Whatever you've been talking on skype with someone is irrelivant....as long as your base keeps shooting around the passing traders.

this is just crap. This base never had an unlawful IFF just BHG and BPA, if you Count BHG to unlawful, fine.

It seems you got the obvious LAW wrong. Changing the IFF to something else, leading to HOSTILE actions can be treated as an act of ...hostility. It does not matter who you shot until that someone is in good relations with Bretonia. You have not informed in RP that your IFF is changing and there is slight possibility that to lead to the destruction of several vessels.

Oh well you think the Terms weren't met as it's time of Destruction hm lets check again the list :

Where's your Problem?What've I done wrong?

I dont "think" the terms werent met. I clearly see the terms were NOT met at all as long as such problematic issues are rising from your side which would even lead to a War Cabiner vote to destroy your base. You know what? We have build many bases and we know what it takes...so if you think we just said each other "hey dudes lets gank that base for fun"...you are sadly mistaken. War Cabiner is always voting according to RP and RP only. DO mistake and you gona receive a consequences...fully in RP.

1.10 Player who is violating a server rule can be warned in the game or on forums. If the player does not ignore the warning, does not repeat the violation, and tries to reduce the negative consequences of what he/she did, this player would not be sanctioned.

*coughs* That's, as Thyrzul said...a server rule. You cant lay a hand to that one in this scenario. 1.10 is when lets say a KNF ID-ed player is pirating - you contact him with "//" and ask him not to do so cuz he is in clear violation. Got it? Rp have nothing to do with that current rule.

The only one who got damaged, Is me. For nothing. Are you all happy now?

Look Jonna...I dont know how long you've been around but I will tell you this: RP means to be ready for RP consequences. (yes now I am repeating myself <.<) So...if you do something in RP being good or bad - its gona reflect to your character. There is no turning back.
I will give you an example about the above: The 13th| fleet lead by Argosax did mistakes and they ended as outcasts and have been exiled. Dont ask me to enlight you why nor this is the place for commenting that...but they've done RP mistakes and were punished fully in RP. < No hard feelings.

PS: Just a notice, If your base was in Rheinland or Liberty and it caused same problems, it would end up the same way - in scrap. I am sorry for you but its time to admit your mistakes, request this thread to be closed cuz it served its purpose and move forward. Its a game after all, characters dies, bases got destroyed but we are still here to play. Those that cant keep up to the rules of this game wont "play" as they are supposed to. I hope you will got my point.

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Discovery Bridges[Feedback] Baron Piett[Biography]

[Alley]

More importantly, how is this an abuse of power? The base was destroyed for inRP reasons.

the problem is that it wasn't destroyed inRP, it has been destroyed by abusing the trust of a community member. Bretonia funpalace got several mods and even an admin so it means you have a bunch of the discovery admin team that found completely okay to abuse the trust of this guy because at first summermclovin asked jonnaffen's base master password to fix the IFF issue as apparently jonnaffen didn't have the possibility to do it himself.

This is very different from asking him "hey can you give me your base master password so I can destroy it without telling you about it?"

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Alley was right.

[Thyrzul]

More importantly, how is this an abuse of power? The base was destroyed for inRP reasons.

the problem is that it wasn't destroyed inRP, it has been destroyed by abusing the trust of a community member. Bretonia funpalace got several mods and even an admin so it means you have a bunch of the discovery admin team that found completely okay to abuse the trust of this guy because at first summermclovin asked jonnaffen's base master password to fix the IFF issue as apparently jonnaffen didn't have the possibility to do it himself.

This is very different from asking him "hey can you give me your base master password so I can destroy it without telling you about it?"

Seems you forgot what the real reason of the destruction of the base was: It posed a threat to lawful traders in an area frequently visited by lawful traders.

And as been said before, authorities having full access over the base has been a term set in the original contract, the executive party (in this case, Summer) as well as the whole War Cabinet had to have the master password already by default, and not only when Summer wanted to change the IFF.

There has been RP explanation given to all of this, and honestly, I find no basis in your blaming it on some conspiracy.

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[jonnaffen747]

Link me to this RP Agreement?

[Alley]

Seems you forgot what the real reason of the destruction of the base was: It posed a threat to lawful traders in an area frequently visited by lawful traders.

And as been said before, authorities having full access over the base has been a term set in the original contract, the executive party (in this case, Summer) as well as the whole War Cabinet had to have the master password already by default, and not only when Summer wanted to change the IFF.

There has been RP explanation given to all of this, and honestly, I find no basis in your blaming it on some conspiracy.

Seriously this whole thread is confusing. You and Bret claims bret palace had prior access to the base and in other posts it's mentioned they didn't. Screw this thread man someone should just lock it.

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Alley was right.

[SummerMcLovin]

Ok, let's catch up again...

I believe this is not supposed to be so obvious a trial by forum, as Cannon said we'll have a fair bit of discussion and then you can likely submit a report to the Admins. I don't think planning out exactly what rules I broke is the intention - not to mention that 1.9 and 1.10 seem to be guidelines for Admins' actions rather than rules that players can break. I am just another player (albeit with a higher RP rank) on the server - I am not an admin giving you a warning (before a sanction if you repeated the violation).

As an extra point in regards to FPXXI, the base was neither destroyed sorry, restored nor the player sanctioned for his actions.

As with the War Cabinet (unlike the "Darth Summer" - nice touch, Lune - viewpoint put out by Alte), I don't run the mod team in any way. I've not called Jansen in, Cannon is the one in charge of how this thread is moderated. Not to mention that I wasn't even awake yet having been up until 4:30am. Seems the poll (and its editing) was unnecessary, although most would be able to work out it was not serious (sorry, Nik).

For one thing, you seemed to have no troubles supplying it, alongside all of USI who could assist. The base could have survived very well no matter what was sieging it. As for BPA/BAF not helping much, it's already been stated that it works a lot better to use the E-chat rather than dropping "HELP HELP PLEASE" in the middle of some Lawful chat spam. If a couple of pirate bombers were keeping your shield up, they would be moved off well within the ~30 hours your MOX would have held. Rather a harsh statement after what happened, but trust the authorities to protect you?

As for Cannon's summary:
1) The 'contract' was organised ooRPly over Skype, in the same way many will talk out negotiations or similar to save discussing things in a slower RP way. I've already posted the chatlog of the RP equivalent conclusion about a BPA office controlling the turrets. Perhaps this should have been posted somewhere, as it seems John failed to pass it on to the other base admins - I think this is Bellck, USI and a couple of others.
2) Of what I have heard, Bowex) had at least one ship shot down, Thyr'zul had his [C] transport shot down twice.
3) As John stated in the original post, I only had a secondary password. I've had this as agreed since the initial few upgrades were completed, other than when it was removed (along with the BPA IFF and our ships' docking permission) by someone (unlikely to be John) for a few days. As I told Reaper over Skype, I had asked for this password back before the Skype mess that led to the decision to destroy it.
If I'd actually had the master password, I could have just changed that and handed him a secondary password to keep things running - then the Bretonian Government would have had a position to make some serious demands that couldn't be answered via megaphone behind 40k tons of MOX.

To be clear about the steps of logic towards using the password to destroy the base (at the risk of repeating myself somewhat), I'll put everything I can think of here:

Right at the start (well, even before that with Blackpool Production Facility) I recognised John as a bit young and not an RP or lore master, but keen enough for me to trust him enough to give this station a go.
After helping to supply the base initially, there was a bit of messing around with me actually getting any payment (not that it was particularly important other than a perception thing - and obviously I hardly expect it with his most recent loss).
Upon leaving Disco when I initially 'bought' the base, John had passed on Production Facility to a RL friend of his who he admitted had little understanding of English and even less of RP.
John had approached me about building another two or three PoBs in Manchester, to which he was told no. I later found all these plans in the Blackpool Industries chat I was added to (before leaving, since the base had been built and I've recently been looking to cut down on faction(ish) chats) and in the BPI thread.
The conditions I'd set out for the base (password, IFF) had been overridden recently by either John or another base owner. Although I was able to fix it, could easily happen again. It was also done before my holiday when initially handing the base back over to him.
Thyr'zul, when initially shot down, had mentioned the reason. I've now got the PM:

Since you posted the diplomacy sheet of Blackpool at an unusual place, not a faction/group info page, but an inRP player base channel, I was unsure about where to address you first. Therefor I decided to contact you in PM and ask: On what do you base your hostile relations towards The Council?

?? i didnt set diplomacy yet im stil working on it my english is bad, im seeing wiki to edit it im sorry if i setted council to hostile if your lawful my deepest apologizes sir

Once again, sure you say it was an accident, but a lack of lore understanding and then your "joke" in the Lawful chat spells it out quite differently.
You asked if you could set up a toll on the gate, and have the base shoot anyone who didn't pay. I told you no again, you seemed ok with that. When selling the base to Reaper (who was seriously thinking you'd just do it without my consent - again, we'd agreed I'd take a look at anyone you'd pass Defense onto), you said he should do the same. Again, this was claimed as a joke but it seemed pretty serious to me.
All of these things together, to me and the rest of the War Cabinet, suggest that there could easily be a problem in the future in any one of these ways.


For people posting here:
Karst has captured the logic of why (if we wanted to destroy the base) it was done like this.
Thyr'zul was the main one shot at by the base that has talked to me and even John admits what he did (which I do not think is an accident from his previous statements) was wrong.
Redon has got a good grasp on the possible consequences and both sides of RP, or not, reasoning.

The RP reasoning was there (at least to some degree depending on what you consider could happen in the future), but the base's destruction isn't the nuking of a village that Jack stated. As I posted as Magnus, the crew was taken into custody (later released, other than "the gunner{s} being put on trial") with the station and its turrets dismantled.
Other than that misconception though, Jack understands the problem here, as does Reaper in a slightly more aggressive way. As most could have seen around Skype, I have a great deal of respect for Jack (or the IMG account when he uses that ) but at least seem to have held onto a shred of what he had for me in return.
I, along with many others (prominently Jack) have always said it as Golly does: bases bring out the worst in people. Even if the RP reasoning is justified, the ooRP future problems are taken as valid, and the admins don't take any action for 5.2, 6.9 or abusing game mechanics (whatever rule that comes under) I still pulled a pretty big dick-move on John that understandably has made him very upset.
Unfortunately not everyone enjoys every part of the RP they have to do - say, a decent enough pirate who gets faced with a "I'm not paying" transport and feels forced to shoot him down.

Fallen, thanks for the input about the War Cabinet (backing up what Xelon and I said) but not all the laws are quite as applicable - as I see John said. If you really want to get technical about the RP laws, I suppose 5.4, 4.1, 4.10 and the old fallback of 4.11 can apply.
You have also covered a fair few points about me getting the blame, although it is fair enough to be seen that way at first. I might have had the support of the War Cabinet, but I was still the one who had dealt with John the whole time, with the password, suggesting we get rid of it, and 'pulling the trigger'.

And for the RP agreement:

[20/05/2013 02:19:09 PM] SummerMcLovin: I think we'd be looking for it to inRP be a joint venture - the BPA/government control the defence part while you guys have it as an HQ and control the everyday running of the base

Think that is most of it covered now.

EDIT: About "abuse of power", some seem to be taking this as abusing mod powers which, as I asked Alte, have never seen myself do, nor been told about it. I've been given the password as a player (along with the base itself for a month or so) for quite some time, and even any 'extra trust' is kind of irrelevant with John only noticing very recently.
[31/05/2013 11:49:25 AM] John | Luke Walker: Oh and your moderator, congratulations
As for some sort of forum/server staff conspiracy in the Bretonian chat, at the time when I was added we only had Jamie (I think he was only a mod at the time), then Xelon was added to replace Pacific as BAF 2iC long before either of us were Moderators.

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Kingdom of Bretonia
Colonial Republic
Independent Miners Guild
Ex-Admin

[FallenKnight]

@Summer, I hope the ppl are actually reading your posts because only then they could get a grasp of whats going on. Small comments like "How dare you use his password" or "Why no RP notice" are simply out of the line cuz the Cause of the Accident was a Result of Actions taken by jonnaffen747. His actions lead to mistakes, resulting in incidents with multiple RPers, leading to the actual Cause - destruction of his base. If he cant understand that nobody can help him.

@jonnaffen747, I dont think u are the one to say what's gona be the trial by admins if theres gona be such a trial. Its entirely up to them to decide who to take part of it. Again I am really sorry for your lost base but know this -> Whatever happens, You did mistakes in Rp which are not small issues. Even if your base come back respawned by admins, you gona be set on RP trial, answer to the judges and maybe be jailed Or the license for your base taken away, resulting again in abandoning your base. This is not a threat but just a notice of the standart proceedures that can follow you after such horrible incidents in RP - the destruction of innocent ppl.

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Discovery Bridges[Feedback] Baron Piett[Biography]

[Alley]

Even if your base come back respawned by admins, you gona be set on RP trial, answer to the judges and maybe be jailed Or the license for your base taken away, resulting again in abandoning your base. This is not a threat but just a notice of the standart proceedures that can follow you after such horrible incidents in RP - the destruction of innocent ppl.

that's still much better and roleplay than the totally uncool(-Jansen) move the bretonian leadership pulled, because that's the only thing that's been confirmed for sure in this thread so far.

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Alley was right.

[jonnaffen747]

@Summer, I hope the ppl are actually reading your posts because only then they could get a grasp of whats going on. Small comments like "How dare you use his password" or "Why no RP notice" are simply out of the line cuz the Cause of the Accident was a Result of Actions taken by jonnaffen747. His actions lead to mistakes, resulting in incidents with multiple RPers, leading to the actual Cause - destruction of his base. If he cant understand that nobody can help him.

@jonnaffen747, I dont think u are the one to say what's gona be the trial by admins if theres gona be such a trial. Its entirely up to them to decide who to take part of it. Again I am really sorry for your lost base but know this -> Whatever happens, You did mistakes in Rp which are not small issues. Even if your base come back respawned by admins, you gona be set on RP trial, answer to the judges and maybe be jailed Or the license for your base taken away, resulting again in abandoning your base. This is not a threat but just a notice of the standart proceedures that can follow you after such horrible incidents in RP - the destruction of innocent ppl.

Look :
I'm writing less because I come from Germany and I'm 17 Yo ye? As I told already before my English isn't that good, you don't have to downgrade me for this. Just my english isn't that good. As Example : Guys like me can't get a SRP never. You know why? Our English is just too bad. Admins would deny it surely. I feel like a second-class human when I Play here with someone like you. If your english isn't perfect some People say : Just go away we don't Need bob's like you why we should. We are fine alone.

And there was no RP or Warning before, He posted 10 Seconds after base got destructed a RP Post , and I was Training in Conn.? How I should read that, even I just look 1 Time a Day into the Comm Channel. I love RPing Yes the hell even with my english. It just makes fun. Thats the only Reason I'm here. I thinked all would respect that but.. As I've seen some don't. As someone said before :
''People RP if it helps their faction and if it don't they just don't rp easily.''

-Luke

[Thyrzul]

that's still much better and roleplay than the asshole move the bretonian leadership pulled, because that's the only thing that's been confirmed for sure in this thread so far.

Don't forget that the whole happened inRP. That has been confirmed as well.

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