Kusari discussion club

[Soul Reaper]

You're not looking it at for a comparison scale.

Samura might be incredibly huge and encompass most of the kusarian economy, but that does not mean in the slightest that it could go on par with the other houses, why? Because for Liberty, you have USI, DSE, Ageira, IC. Bretonia has their gigantic Bowex as well as BMM, Gateway and let's not forget Planetform. Then in Rheinland there's DHC, Republican and Kruger. Samura might be larger than one in any house, but not a whole house's.

Each faction has it's own thing, either resource gathering, technology and/or shipping (shipping being the real source of income) and are somewhat evenly distributed within that House's respective economy.

Economy is -not- a one sided thing, it doesn't work one way and if people think it does then they should read up on some general economy. While the other houses have more or so open trade (other than their war fronts) and with multiple groups, Kusari is one sided and as you've said yourself, is mostly Samura. Samura alone cannot compete with the rest, not even close.

And as I said, economy isn't a one sided thing, when you practically have no foreign imports, the economy -will- crumble because the other houses are doing free-trade, while one isn't.

Kusari seems to be ok at the moment because of forced trade with Gallia which brings them quite a bit of resources and income because Gallia is easily self-sufficient. But going back to old-kusari pretty much screws that over.

So yes, Kusarian economy is strong as a single entity because it's a house. When compared with the others Houses however, it has severe disadvantages that would put them on the lowest of the scales, because the rest (especially Liberty) are much more powerful in that aspect.

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[Ryummel]

Nobody is ready to do concessions or keep a civil enough mindset to make factions cooperate with each other.

"Must retain my space pixels."

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[Trail]

You're not looking it at for a comparison scale.

Samura might be incredibly huge and encompass most of the kusarian economy, but that does not mean in the slightest that it could go on par with the other houses, why? Because for Liberty, you have USI, DSE, Ageira, IC. Bretonia has their gigantic Bowex as well as BMM, Gateway and let's not forget Planetform. Then in Rheinland there's DHC, Republican and Kruger. Samura might be larger than one in any house, but not a whole house's.

Each faction has it's own thing, either resource gathering, technology and/or shipping (shipping being the real source of income) and are somewhat evenly distributed within that House's respective economy.

Economy is -not- a one sided thing, it doesn't work one way and if people think it does then they should read up on some general economy. While the other houses have more or so open trade (other than their war fronts) and with multiple groups, Kusari is one sided and as you've said yourself, is mostly Samura. Samura alone cannot compete with the rest, not even close.

And as I said, economy isn't a one sided thing, when you practically have no foreign imports, the economy -will- crumble because the other houses are doing free-trade, while one isn't.

Kusari seems to be ok at the moment because of forced trade with Gallia which brings them quite a bit of resources and income because Gallia is easily self-sufficient. But going back to old-kusari pretty much screws that over.

So yes, Kusarian economy is strong as a single entity because it's a house. When compared with the others Houses however, it has severe disadvantages that would put them on the lowest of the scales, because the rest (especially Liberty) are much more powerful in that aspect.

Liberty is the only house that is economically more powerful then Kusari and thats due to the dom kavosh technology bunker too, giving Liberty monopolys on gates and all that stuff.

And samura is not just one thing mind you, you are looking at it wrong as Samura / Kishiro do everything. (this isnt to make a powerplay but actually lore again) It has resources gathering (gas, ore, aliens, transportation, ship building, terraforming, technology development, just about every economic sector. etc etc) Kishiro does as well just differently.

This is from the simplistic Samura Rep chart

Samura Industries is one of the great Kusari keiretsu -- sprawling, vertically integrated companies that control whole industries.

When you look at it

Liberty:
USI: Shipping
DSE: Construction (to simplify it) and mechanical research)
Ageira: Jump gate construction / Parts and general FTL research
IC: (IC isnt even liberty anymore but w/e) Insurance

Bretonia:
Bowex: Shipping Conglomorate
Gateway: Similar to above just smaller scale and tends to focus on niche area's. but succesfully I might add
BMM: Mining, Manufacturing, kinda self explanatory
Planetform: Terraforming and technologies related to that

Rheinland:
DHC: Mining, Manufacturing.
Republican: Transporation
Kruger: Mining.
ALG: industrial clean up (kinda unique in that regards)

I could add gallia but it would just be the same. Samura and Kishiro are unique in what they do (everything) They try to make themselves self suffecient in every area they can exploit themselves into. This even includes insurance. As Samura has its own insurance brand as well, granted it is mostly used to insure corporation assets.

Note: I did ask a bigger Kusari buff then me to take a look at this and correct me if I am wrong but I believe this is accurate

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[Oorn]

I must agree that main cripling factor was "good" side wining. BD were left in a VERY difficult spot, with their mortal enemy defeated, they became just another "terrorist for no reason". GC are also screwed, with only choice being becoming local drug dealers more than political faction. Hogosha becoming more lawful was also funny. IMHO Samura Kishiro conflict should NOT have ended. It was ONLY thing, that defined Kusari internal policy. In fact I wish decission would be "486 didnt happen", otherwise 486 era would just look stupid. And yea, giving external war is also welcome, another "Allies vs Axis with light scent of Frogies" would still be better than current situation.

And fixing geography would also help, and as always i'm all for removing "extra" systems.

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When "roleplay" around you seems to be diminishing... all you can do is be a new beacon of roleplay to light up everyone else's interactions.

[Soul Reaper]

You're not looking it at for a comparison scale.

Samura might be incredibly huge and encompass most of the kusarian economy, but that does not mean in the slightest that it could go on par with the other houses, why? Because for Liberty, you have USI, DSE, Ageira, IC. Bretonia has their gigantic Bowex as well as BMM, Gateway and let's not forget Planetform. Then in Rheinland there's DHC, Republican and Kruger. Samura might be larger than one in any house, but not a whole house's.

Each faction has it's own thing, either resource gathering, technology and/or shipping (shipping being the real source of income) and are somewhat evenly distributed within that House's respective economy.

Economy is -not- a one sided thing, it doesn't work one way and if people think it does then they should read up on some general economy. While the other houses have more or so open trade (other than their war fronts) and with multiple groups, Kusari is one sided and as you've said yourself, is mostly Samura. Samura alone cannot compete with the rest, not even close.

And as I said, economy isn't a one sided thing, when you practically have no foreign imports, the economy -will- crumble because the other houses are doing free-trade, while one isn't.

Kusari seems to be ok at the moment because of forced trade with Gallia which brings them quite a bit of resources and income because Gallia is easily self-sufficient. But going back to old-kusari pretty much screws that over.

So yes, Kusarian economy is strong as a single entity because it's a house. When compared with the others Houses however, it has severe disadvantages that would put them on the lowest of the scales, because the rest (especially Liberty) are much more powerful in that aspect.

Liberty is the only house that is economically more powerful then Kusari and thats due to the dom kavosh technology bunker too, giving Liberty monopolys on gates and all that stuff.

And samura is not just one thing mind you, you are looking at it wrong as Samura / Kishiro do everything. (this isnt to make a powerplay but actually lore again) It has resources gathering (gas, ore, aliens, transportation, ship building, terraforming, technology development, just about every economic sector. etc etc) Kishiro does as well just differently.

This is from the simplistic Samura Rep chart

Samura Industries is one of the great Kusari keiretsu -- sprawling, vertically integrated companies that control whole industries.

When you look at it

Liberty:
USI: Shipping
DSE: Construction (to simplify it) and mechanical research)
Ageira: Jump gate construction / Parts and general FTL research
IC: (IC isnt even liberty anymore but w/e) Insurance

Bretonia:
Bowex: Shipping Conglomorate
Gateway: Similar to above just smaller scale and tends to focus on niche area's. but succesfully I might add
BMM: Mining, Manufacturing, kinda self explanatory
Planetform: Terraforming and technologies related to that

Rheinland:
DHC: Mining, Manufacturing.
Republican: Transporation
Kruger: Mining.
ALG: industrial clean up (kinda unique in that regards)

I could add gallia but it would just be the same. Samura and Kishiro are unique in what they do (everything) They try to make themselves self suffecient in every area they can exploit themselves into. This even includes insurance. As Samura has its own insurance brand as well, granted it is mostly used to insure corporation assets.

Note: I did ask a bigger Kusari buff then me to take a look at this and correct me if I am wrong but I believe this is accurate

Actually from what I've seen, while all the factions do concentrate on one particular lane of expertise, they also do a bit of other things on the side, I mainly say this from observing the factions both ingame and on forums. And yes Samura is unique in the way that it does everything at a close scale, as in, their ship construction level is on par with their shipping and other things. That's probably the only reason Kusari is able to survive. However this also gives a disadvantage as they don't center on a single industry and can't grow as large in that lane.

That is why the other houses have stronger economies, because there are multiple groups doing different things. Their objectives do overlap sometimes, but rarely and not at a high standard.

To put it in picture, let's say Samura has 50 points in ship building, resource gathering, technology creation, shipping.

DSE would have 80 points in ship building, resource gathering but only 10 in shipping technology creation, while Ageira would have 80 in technology creation, 20 in shipping and 10 in ship building and resource gathering.

And USI being good and shipping and so forth. See what I'm getting at? Samura has a higher average of doing everything, but the other factions are more focused on one particular industry, and then combined with the others in that specific house, they make the economical power of that house, which should be quite a bit higher than a isolated Kusari.

Oh and just to clarify a few things:

DSE is not only construction but resource gathering as well, in fact they're one of the best. And while Ageira might be known as the creators of FTL tech, they're also a general technology group and do not only focus on FTL technology. And IC is not only insurance but also plays kinda like the Sirius bank, and right now has a very strong presence in the "shipping" industry.

Bowex and Gateway differ in the way that Bowex focuses on general shipping while Gateway is more focused on shipping of raw resources (hence their friendliness and business relationship with IMG or even BMM)

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[Sabru]

You're not looking it at for a comparison scale.

Samura might be incredibly huge and encompass most of the kusarian economy, but that does not mean in the slightest that it could go on par with the other houses, why? Because for Liberty, you have USI, DSE, Ageira, IC. Bretonia has their gigantic Bowex as well as BMM, Gateway and let's not forget Planetform. Then in Rheinland there's DHC, Republican and Kruger. Samura might be larger than one in any house, but not a whole house's.

Each faction has it's own thing, either resource gathering, technology and/or shipping (shipping being the real source of income) and are somewhat evenly distributed within that House's respective economy.

Economy is -not- a one sided thing, it doesn't work one way and if people think it does then they should read up on some general economy. While the other houses have more or so open trade (other than their war fronts) and with multiple groups, Kusari is one sided and as you've said yourself, is mostly Samura. Samura alone cannot compete with the rest, not even close.

And as I said, economy isn't a one sided thing, when you practically have no foreign imports, the economy -will- crumble because the other houses are doing free-trade, while one isn't.

Kusari seems to be ok at the moment because of forced trade with Gallia which brings them quite a bit of resources and income because Gallia is easily self-sufficient. But going back to old-kusari pretty much screws that over.

So yes, Kusarian economy is strong as a single entity because it's a house. When compared with the others Houses however, it has severe disadvantages that would put them on the lowest of the scales, because the rest (especially Liberty) are much more powerful in that aspect.

Liberty is the only house that is economically more powerful then Kusari and thats due to the dom kavosh technology bunker too, giving Liberty monopolys on gates and all that stuff.

And samura is not just one thing mind you, you are looking at it wrong as Samura / Kishiro do everything. (this isnt to make a powerplay but actually lore again) It has resources gathering (gas, ore, aliens, transportation, ship building, terraforming, technology development, just about every economic sector. etc etc) Kishiro does as well just differently.

This is from the simplistic Samura Rep chart

Samura Industries is one of the great Kusari keiretsu -- sprawling, vertically integrated companies that control whole industries.

When you look at it

Liberty:
USI: Shipping
DSE: Construction (to simplify it) and mechanical research)
Ageira: Jump gate construction / Parts and general FTL research
IC: (IC isnt even liberty anymore but w/e) Insurance

Bretonia:
Bowex: Shipping Conglomorate
Gateway: Similar to above just smaller scale and tends to focus on niche area's. but succesfully I might add
BMM: Mining, Manufacturing, kinda self explanatory
Planetform: Terraforming and technologies related to that

Rheinland:
DHC: Mining, Manufacturing.
Republican: Transporation
Kruger: Mining.
ALG: industrial clean up (kinda unique in that regards)

I could add gallia but it would just be the same. Samura and Kishiro are unique in what they do (everything) They try to make themselves self suffecient in every area they can exploit themselves into. This even includes insurance. As Samura has its own insurance brand as well, granted it is mostly used to insure corporation assets.

Note: I did ask a bigger Kusari buff then me to take a look at this and correct me if I am wrong but I believe this is accurate

Actually from what I've seen, while all the factions do concentrate on one particular lane of expertise, they also do a bit of other things on the side, I mainly say this from observing the factions both ingame and on forums. And yes Samura is unique in the way that it does everything at a close scale, as in, their ship construction level is on par with their shipping and other things. That's probably the only reason Kusari is able to survive. However this also gives a disadvantage as they don't center on a single industry and can't grow as large in that lane.

That is why the other houses have stronger economies, because there are multiple groups doing different things. Their objectives do overlap sometimes, but rarely and not at a high standard.

To put it in picture, let's say Samura has 50 points in ship building, resource gathering, technology creation, shipping.

DSE would have 80 points in ship building, resource gathering but only 10 in shipping technology creation, while Ageira would have 80 in technology creation, 20 in shipping and 10 in ship building and resource gathering.

And USI being good and shipping and so forth. See what I'm getting at? Samura has a higher average of doing everything, but the other factions are more focused on one particular industry, and then combined with the others in that specific house, they make the economical power of that house, which should be quite a bit higher than a isolated Kusari.

Oh and just to clarify a few things:

DSE is not only construction but resource gathering as well, in fact they're one of the best. And while Ageira might be known as the creators of FTL tech, they're also a general technology group and do not only focus on FTL technology. And IC is not only insurance but also plays kinda like the Sirius bank, and right now has a very strong presence in the "shipping" industry.

Bowex and Gateway differ in the way that Bowex focuses on general shipping while Gateway is more focused on shipping of raw resources (hence their friendliness and business relationship with IMG or even BMM)

I get what you mean Reaper. Kusari suffers because they are doing the "jack of all trades, but master of none" route. sure they can do all these things but not to the same level as the more 'specialized' companies and corporations in the other houses.

in simpler terms, kusari economy is "good at everything, great at nothing". which actually makes it weaker, when compared to other houses. its a house of cards. if samura and/or kishiro go 'pop', kusari economy is screwed

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[Ceoran]

And as I said, economy isn't a one sided thing, when you practically have no foreign imports, the economy -will- crumble because the other houses are doing free-trade, while one isn't.

Just to fix that: Kusari always had foreign imports just like any other house. They just had to be dropped off at the respective trade hubs to be further distributed within the house by Samura. Numbers during the .86 transition were that Samura would be in control of 70% of inner-Kusari shipping.

As for the size and economical power of Samura one can simply count the assets, including several planets, and compare those to any other corporate faction. Or a beaten up Bretonia.

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My Stories Outcast laws and structures Join Samura|-

Go play the game, within the given limitations. That is how role play games are played. Not by trying to work around those limitations or whining about them.

[Mercarryn]

So, right now, I haven't read al of the thread, so please forgive me if I may write something that has already been said.
To my mind, 2 things should be fixed to increase activity within Kusari again.

1.) Either get rid of the "republic" issue so that we have more rp-reasons for the internal struggles within Kusari again or set up a new war with another house
2) Fix the old cardamine trade route. Yes I am serious. In vanilla, Kusari was actually the primary route for any cardamine to Liberty. Now this way has come obsolete with the Baffin-Coronado route. I suggest that the latter one is being made less favored so that cardamine smugglers use Kusari to get into Liberty again.

[ProwlerPC]

I'm thilled to read the variations a civil war can break out. I'm in complete support of the civil war idea. I was glad that the devs kept the Emporer alive but I'd be fuming if they felt that the coup is over while Kogen is still alive. I am in the belief that he'd return to Kusari quite upset and begin waving his banner around with many flocking to it. Whoever was saying Samura isn't much of a shipbuilder is dead wrong. Samura has been Kusari's primary shipbuilder for centuries, it's Kishiro that has only recently stepped into this industry and with pretty decent success I might add but I'm of the belief that a Samura back Kogen can out produce a Kishiro led Kusari in warships. We've pushed the Emporer and Samura a lot over the decades while they sat on the throne with other matters of state bogging them down. Now the Emporer and Samura are free to make war to reclaim what they believe is theirs which should mean troubling times for Kishiro and GMG (and I'd argue, ushering in the end of GMG's golden age).

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[VincentX]

I get what you mean Reaper. Kusari suffers because they are doing the "jack of all trades, but master of none" route. sure they can do all these things but not to the same level as the more 'specialized' companies and corporations in the other houses.

in simpler terms, kusari economy is "good at everything, great at nothing". which actually makes it weaker, when compared to other houses. its a house of cards. if samura and/or kishiro go 'pop', kusari economy is screwed

This doesn't need to be true at all, and probably it isn't. Let me explain why.

Samura and Kishiro are not the large, singular companies we're typically used to in Western economies . If you were to take the distinction between a classic government and a company, then imagine the Keiretsu somewhere between both. They are not single companies. In fact, they are many different companies organised around what you could call a private financial authority. Take some big companies you know and imagine them working under one name while each company retains considerable autonomy. They're corporate alliances.

You could say that they organise the rules and regulations to which an the members of the economy must adhere, much like a government does. It's just that you have different competing sets of rules. There will still be fierce competition and specialisation. Who they are is not so much set in stone. It's very much possible for a company to leave one of the conglomerates and join another. It's just that we're not shown this in Freelancer.

One difference is that conglomerates don't go broke. Either their members go broke individually, or the conglomerate breaks up, members leave, others join, and so on. Any conglomerate that wants to go to war, would have a very difficult time convincing the member companies to go to war, unless it would really be financially beneficial, because members could just leave when things go sour. As a result you won't see militairy campaigns but a tug of war between conglomerates attempting to convince companies to join them rather than the other. Real war remains waged by the government militairy.

It's a very different way of organizing the economy, and a very interesting one in terms of mechanics, because it's nothing like what we're used to.