Zoner Alliance Faction Feedback [ June ]

[Luke.]

If anything, blame the opposing forces for sending two dozen battleships to Omicron 74 every day and proceed to shoot their bases for 12 hours straight for whatever reason. I guess people get really persistent when they hate something.

If you'd bothered to read my post, you'd notice that I didn't solely pin the lag on the ZA. What you're saying is exactly what I was referring to.

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[Potter Harry]

Doj, what's your inRp/Oorp reasons for helping these guys (no threat, I just don't know your characters and I'm just curious and I'd be happy if you filled me in PM-wise)? You've been seen shooting at quite a lot of people in the Omicron 74 zone. The fact that there are a lot of groups (official and un) participating on the anti-ZA side absolutely does not mean we're guilty of metagaming or deliberately seeking a conflict for anti-Rp reasons. The Rp is always stated, both ingame and out, on the com channel and elsewhere both by the ZA and none-ZA sides. Remember, this isn't about loads of groups ganging up on an unofficial. Consider the Consensian and Solar participation over that one.

Plus please don't accuse us of Oorp hate? It's already a struggle keeping this Inrp, otherwise we can do some of this in flood. That goes to any anti-ZA people too.

In RP reasons depend on the character. It can really be anything; from being a Zoner sympathetic to the ZA or a Corsair looking to sparkle a war with the Order and other Zoners in order to have an excuse to start conquering neighbouring systems for their own benefit, in the long run. The in RP reason doesn't really matter, in the end, as long as I'm not breaking rules, and as long as my OORP reasons aren't based around grudges, because then the RP reasons are more likely to simply be a cover-up for your grieving intentions.

As for OORP, groups that were used as scapegoats and outlet for other people's apparent anger have been around Discovery for a pretty long while. In fact, at some point, it were the Phoenix Zoners (back then known as the Omicrons, and even further in the past known as the Zoner Trade Consortium) who were at the receiving end of everyone's guns at some point. In the end, there wasn't much reason why everyone suddenly started hating on them, making it seem like everyone just jumped on the bandwagon because they had nothing better to do. It looks a lot like the same thing happening here, with impossible numbers attacking them, and that's why I lend my aid to them. If anything, it's to make it a bit more even numbered.

For example, I don't see why the Corsairs declared war on the ZA. They even stated it's none of their business, and the ZA aren't actually doing anything to the Corsairs either. What about Solar Runners, whom I only ever see operating in the Taus, then suddenly have a whole fleet in Omicron 74 to help against the Zoner Alliance?

You've been seen shooting at quite a lot of people in the Omicron 74 zone.

What do you even base this on? Do note that I've received a lot of screenshots/statements from people telling me they were accused of being me by the Console (didn't you have better things to do than to start a witch hunt, Hawk?), while most of the time I'm as far as can be from Omicron 74. I only actually set foot in O74 2-3 times since the conflict started, once on <ZA>Super_Zonr and the other times being a bit more recent.

[Anaximander]

I like that Doj guy more and more.

I don't understand why it's almost a "crime against the community" when indie ZA builds a hostile base that shoots neutrals/friendliest when official factions are allowed to do so with no fuss. Double standards much.

Sure, it's a dumb base, but so are most if the PoB's in this game - it's beyond me why there are no rules regarding them when all they seem to create is grief and discord in their current form. They also wreck immersion by committing actions their parent factions never would or could do per ID.

When that's said, I visited O74 for the first time during this conflict yesterday, and I had a lot of fun with it. You didn't spoil my day at all, you gave me stuff to do.

[Jinx]

first:

feedback - the most obvious one i can give to ZA

--> you are too easily baited into making a fool out of yourself - on the forum. - many threads and posts are only meant to make you look bad - and on many occasions i could not help but think "ooh, please, do not respond to that one - this is so obviously just meant to bait you into "bad zoners" stance"

disco is full of ppl who jump the bandwaggons - and one of the bandwaggons is that your faction is currently the scapegoat for "everything bad with zoners" - a reputation that is hard to loose. - it ll take time and efford - and most of it will be unjust and probably undeserved.


second:

i am not sure if FR2 applies. - an official faction can only force indies to do when what they ask for is fully within canon

it is not canon for zoners to obey laws. - especially not laws made at gunpoint by allies. - but it might be zonerish to say "if you wish to" - then turn around and hire some hunters to take out the idiot who threatened them at gunpoint.

we have a precident where an official faction ( funny - it was the order - but rather BS| back then i think ) tried to enforce their RP on indies. it was said that it was not canon - and they got slapped ( or kindly asked not to continue ).




solution - suggesstion:

CLEAR borderlines... - phoenix wants to own 74 or at least key installations. - but they do not own 74 - so they do not have more rights than you have in that respect.
last i have seen - OSI claims corinth and fp15 - for whatever reason, phoenix claims livadia. no one cares for sparta.

you might be the bigger men - and move. - there is plenty of room in delta - also some interesting places there. - you might establish your little "region" there. - there is an alien, non DK station coming, there is the comm array that is used by FP11, there is a nice little planet that could use an orbital station etc etc. it is also still in the omicrons. - and you don t run into phoenix so much.

let them sit in 74 - it is just a system - and its ugly and green, too. although personally i like JH blocking battlestations - they do cause more trouble than they are worth. ( so i would not recommend building a station at a jumphole at all - unless you have clear enemies that come through - if you do not have, you ll soon have )

there is also room in the tau region - i guess.. i have no idea who RPs governing fp10 - but whoever it is - there is not much visible RP about it. - there are also the sigmas ... a station in cooperation with the GMG might not be a bad thing either. the GMG is quite powerful - and they can be good allies. ( also a nice RP faction )

so if you got into a cul de sac with phoenix and 74 ... is it really worth fighing for a worthless system anymore?

unless you have having fun with phoenix and the order. - but if its rather a chore - let them play on their turf - and move out of their way a little - it might be worth it - a literal new beginning.



edit:

on an encouraging note

personally - i do not think you act non-zonerish. - you also do not act outside the canon - but you do act outside what the community wants zoners to be like - which is something different of course. - zoners who do not want trouble - act as the community wants ( no matter if its inRP or not ) - zoners who do not submit to that - are usually called ooRP and bad - its been like that for years. ( btw. not only zoners - that applies to every other faction )

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Thyrzul]

Phoenix are not the only one who is official,

Phoenix ARE the only official faction using the Zoner ID, both TAZ and OSI got their own IDs, but if that wouldn't have been enough, all three of them adhered to the directives Order set previously, and which the ZA questioned from start, initiating the first war with it.

and be official or not, zoners should not attack other zoners, at best they need to help them.

I wonder why ZA declared war on other zoners and why are they shooting at other zoners then... Aren't they zoners too, "be official or not"?

The phoenix itself is a laughing stock, all other factions tried to help the za while they were trying to to meddle them.

I frankly see nobody laughing at the Phoenix... maybe ZA peeps, but nobody else. Phoenix offered peace and ending the conflict several times, but one can't help the other if he doesn't want that help.

but from my reckoning they allowed this oorp none-sense to go on.

True, as RedEclipse said too, they wished O74 to evolve by itself, not even thinking ZA would cause this mess. You can thank them as I myself would have not been THIS patient with that bunch of warmongers.

@Doj
ZA pretty much deserves to be a scapegoat and to be blamed for their own actions after all what they did inRP and ooRP, but mostly inRP. It is hard to accept and like a faction going straight against their own lore, even more if leader of said faction metagames, powergames and then spams the violation report sub-forum with claims of metagaming. (Ain't is a bit hypocritical?)

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[Zen_Mechanics]

That's what I suggested, but quite the opposite I'm gonna try and build a gurad faction, not biased that will keep 74 "alive" by writing down a constitution-like document which I will inrp force all the factionst sign it.
I hope the paragraph isn't messed up cuz I'm with my phone, but given the chaos in the system I think its going to work

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Were fools to make war on our brothers in arms.

[Thyrzul]

i have no idea who RPs governing fp10 - but whoever it is - there is not much visible RP about it.

Commonwealth, and there is plenty of RP going around it on forums and their in-game presence can be said to be significant. Little searching can help get rid of false claims based on lack of knowledge.

personally - i do not think you act non-zonerish. - you also do not act outside the canon

May I ask you how "zonerish" or canon it is for a bunch of civilians deciding to live their lives in a harsh environment at the edge of civilized space to form a military? How "zonerish" is it that a group of people militaristically inferior to their surroundings (because yes, zoners basically are inferior when it comes to raw force) start to question a simple directive of their lore allies all other zoners have agreed upon ages ago, and then start a war because of it? How "zonerish" it is from a bunch of civilians presumed to be aiming at neutrality by diplomacy to refuse all negotiations until they are all decimated?

Or if it's only what the community thinks what zoners are, then please enlighten me oh all knowing Jinx, what is the real lore of the zoners?

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[Anaximander]

Thyr'zul, sorry to say this, but you seem to think like you've soaked up all the wisdom from Disco, but you haven't been around long enough to even begin to have a clue of how things are, how they were, and why. You seem to put all your faith in a system you like to portray as near perfect, when the fact is that it is deeply flawed in so many ways. Phoenix was being ridiculed to a point where they dropped their name to sort of start afresh. Nobody deserves that, not ZA either. I'm inclined to believe that if ZA had carried an official faction tag, you and many of those who are hysterically against ZA, would be on their side.

"Factions going straight against their own lore" is debatable - I'd say some of the respected official factions do so as well, but get away with it. Moreover, Zoner lore is so holed that there's ample justification for a group such as ZA's. I mean is it so hard to imagine that groups of individuals with access to a wide range of military tools, no accountability and seemingly endless resources go on the offensive? What is and isn't "within lore" seems to be something we just decide on ourselves, and if you've got a tag, your opinion is the right one. You more or less said so in one of our previous discussions, and that take on it is extremely naïve.

[Omicron]

if ZA had carried an official faction tag, you and many of those who are hysterically against ZA, would be on their side.

Nope. Omicroners were an example.

no accountability

Nope. As you see, ZA got attention of the primary players in Omicrons politics.

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[Anaximander]

I don't blame Order or Corsairs (I've been shooting ZA for the Sairs) for their actions; in fact I'd hoped more factions had the balls to challenge other factions when they step out of line, but it does seem like you need to be an indie to call down that righteous wrath upon you...

Have you noticed how random players, new ships and so on participate in this? Again, I think Order and Corsairs are well within reason, but those other players acting like sheep, making Zoner ships to follow suit and score some lulzy skype popularity points are just low. It smells like a good ol' oorp lynch mob, and it shows this community at its worst.