Proposal: Remove Battleships from the Zoner ID.

[Duvelske]

I agree IMG doesn't really need battleships. I'm not even sure if they're to have these in the future anyway. GMG has 3 battleships IRP, but as official faction leaders have stated multiple times, they don't really want to have regular caps for indies.
Junkers (and corporations such as Kruger, Daumann and ALG) don't have any goals that require usage of battleships. Plus they're to be protected by the law enforcement agencies, government, et cetera.

I know these're just examples, but these're bad examples.

No not really, they are good examples. And well mostly easy because of dev/admin assistance with IMG for instance. But same applies to Zoners, the idea's some devs had might not have worked out as intended. thats why the id states that a zoner may shoot in SELF defense. Other factions get bs ships and people asked for ships and thus some other ship to choose from.

Hi, it's me again.

Zoners actually don't have any ingame enemies besides the Nomads, but the Nomads are enemies with everyone anyway.

Therefore, by your logic, the LPI should have battleships, and so should DSE and whatnot.

you see it wrong, or well its too early for me to type clear.. one of the two.. but well zoners have gallia as enemies.. for that the people all posted in that flood post why an IDF was in the bar of FP6 makes no sense as if you look to the rephacks. they are rephacked NO DOCKING!

...
Guess you never seen the Red hessian army? Or Corsairs or outcasts for example? Not that they need bs ships, but well if you give their enemies bs ships you must ballance the other factions too.

Please, tell me more about how every single faction should be granted access to Battleships.

Its not needed, as for me its that basically you cannot remove something or justify this just because some people in the past used a ship not accordingly.

<willful ignorance of mod development context>

Funny but this will not add anything in this discussion, but the balance within disco is far to seek. We all know it if we look close at the game. Its not good, nor bad. It makes differences. Yet Devs try to balance each faction to have equal ships? *LAUGHS* ahh well, guess RP is the same here as US compaired to South africa militairy. Nothing against both but well US is known for spending billions of dollars more to that compaired to any other country out there.

Yes, I agree.
Not only should zoners not have them inRP, but the average zoner really can't be trusted with these tools they abuse.

Like i stated before its not about who can handle it or not. for this are SANCTIONS and VIOLATION reports. Official factions cannot even use em properly with a vid i have seen where they openly violate their id. Its a problem which will continue more and more as unofficial factions can claim officialdom like navy factions now too make the law within a house. (but im drifting too far now.. )

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[Shagohad]

Another Capital Ship[zoner] or POB thread about SRP?
That's just great..






We all know that this is not a problem about ships or pobs for that matter ,but the person who use them the way you do not want,so..why do we need so much threads on this matter anyway?

My $0.02 is that in omicrons you should be required to SRP a fighter/bomber/gunboat because it makes no sense to fly one such far away from civilisation and not even consider other dangerous threats,such as nomads,but only the space the surrounds your tiny little ship and no facilities that are require in order to sustain human life forms or otherwise[dogs,trolls,ai,..some of the recent factions *facepalm * ] for an extended period of time.

Now from a different point of view,the one of game balance:this class exist for the sole purpose of being apart of the mini game we used it for so long..Paper,Scissors,Rock played with space 'boats

FYI: Long Live the ZA Supreme Race
^ this is the true reason this thread was bring back to life once again

Good God do you have it all wrong. Let us completely ignore the fact that fighter-craft are self contained space faring vessels just like everything else. Using your logic, we can argue the Vikings didn't make it to North America using longships.

They're all space ships. As long as they have sufficient fuel, air, water and food they can go just about anywhere.

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"THE HULL HAS BEEN BREACHED AND THE SCIENCE IS LEAKING OUT!"

[Ivan]

I agree IMG doesn't really need battleships. I'm not even sure if they're to have these in the future anyway. GMG has 3 battleships IRP, but as official faction leaders have stated multiple times, they don't really want to have regular caps for indies.
Junkers (and corporations such as Kruger, Daumann and ALG) don't have any goals that require usage of battleships. Plus they're to be protected by the law enforcement agencies, government, et cetera.

I know these're just examples, but these're bad examples.

No not really, they are good examples. And well mostly easy because of dev/admin assistance with IMG for instance. But same applies to Zoners, the idea's some devs had might not have worked out as intended. thats why the id states that a zoner may shoot in SELF defense. Other factions get bs ships and people asked for ships and thus some other ship to choose from.

Basically question's if you pick gameplay or roleplay..

[Shagohad]

you see it wrong, or well its too early for me to type clear.. one of the two.. but well zoners have gallia as enemies.. for that the people all posted in that flood post why an IDF was in the bar of FP6 makes no sense as if you look to the rephacks. they are rephacked NO DOCKING!

Oh damn, Gallia hates me. Pull out the battleships! That was because Doc Holliday tried to to pull a fast one with the Gallic leadership and Mike unleashed the wrath of the French upon them. But it's not like we sent Valors in Baffin and the Omicrons to murder them as they slept.

What about Xenos? They're enemies with everyone. They should get a Death Star.

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"THE HULL HAS BEEN BREACHED AND THE SCIENCE IS LEAKING OUT!"

[Duvelske]

Basically question's if you pick gameplay or roleplay..

Indeed one of the things I tried to point out.

What about Xenos? They're enemies with everyone. They should get a Death Star.

They have a ship already: (not sure if the id is still like this)
http://discoverygc.com/wiki/Xeno_Terrorist_ID

Pilot carrying this ID is a member of the Xenos who:

May treat non Libertonian trade vessels as combat targets. Give them hell, a taste of hell before you send them there.
May demand cargo.
Can engage pirates, terrorists and lawfuls within Liberty and the Independent Systems bordering Liberty.
Cannot ally with any military, police, or corporate players.
Cannot use any transport with more than 4,300 cargo.

Allowed ships: Fighters, Bombers, Freighters, Transports, Venator, Lost Battlestar.

So yeah they should get the Venator and a replacement for the lost battlestar as its not flyable anymore in the 4.87 version.

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[Shagohad]

So yeah they should get the Venator and a replacement for the lost battlestar as its not flyable anymore in the 4.87 version.

Yeah but that's a joke, not a legitimate claim.

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"THE HULL HAS BEEN BREACHED AND THE SCIENCE IS LEAKING OUT!"

[Lythrilux]

Yes, I agree.
Not only should zoners not have them inRP, but the average zoner really can't be trusted with these tools they abuse.

Like i stated before its not about who can handle it or not. for this are SANCTIONS and VIOLATION reports. Official factions cannot even use em properly with a vid i have seen where they openly violate their id. Its a problem which will continue more and more as unofficial factions can claim officialdom like navy factions now too make the law within a house. (but im drifting too far now.. )

I can't tell you how tiring it is to deal with Zoner capitals entering house space. Re-enforcing the rules doesn't work as they just keep trying to come back again and again.
I would like you to tell me though, what do the caps actually give the Zoners?

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[Jinx]

just a few things that need to be set straight

- 74 is LORE and disco canon - it is NOT a guard system anymore and not owned by anyone - but that means that its installations and infrastructure is disco canon.

- it is OORP to fly through the edgeworlds in even a gunboat sized vessel. - freighters and small transports can do it, because they have a different life support / fuel ratio to mission time.

it is INRP to use at LEAST destroyer sized vessels. - the Fearless is an Freeport supply transport ( or so it was designed by AoM back then ) - the lack of lanes and borderstations makes it ... inRP ... impossible for snubs to even get from one freeport to another without the pilot perishing to radiation, starvation, lack of oxygen or just becoming crazy after months of loneliness - yea inRP it takes months to traverse a system. ( and if you argue with inRP - you gotto keep that in mind )

i am afraid - but it sounds much like an attempt to create people who are more special than others - and cause you cannot do it by being "better" - you try it by putting others down - so you become better without efford. there is absolutely no inRP justification to cut those ships ( unless you do it to all the non houses .. and how great would disco have done in the past - if we always had official factions getting more and better ship across the board - yea - about as good as most other mods out there )

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[t0l]

I for one, agree that Zoners don't really need a battleship, but hey.

They're fun to shoot at.

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[RedEclipse]

Of course, there are a couple official Zoner factions that could use one or two -- Phoenix and TAZ for example. Thankfully, TAZ already has an ID of their own. Phoenix doesn't, but they could get a SRP one if they wanted to.

Hmm why does phoenix need caps as you state they are so protected by the order? Maybe ONE srp one.. but that would be it. TAZ well are more in need of caps indeed, but also protected by the Council and Colonial republic. But against Gallia it will be a BIG fight indeed.

Indeed, TAZ need cap swarm to conquer Gallia, instead to find a peaceful solution.

Zoners got only one constant enemy - it's Nomads and everything related to them. Yes, if something happens we got a backup. But we should have our own forces to get rid of the threat. One ship is nothing.



Jinx, it's not about be a "special". Since when ability to RP properly is "special" part of the game?