Does anyone in here realize that win = effort * knowledge + talent in pretty much any game, in which skill is relevant ? And if you take out effort and knowledge all that's left is talent, which will probably leave you in the same situation as before ?
Don't think so.
(10-29-2013, 11:13 PM)TLI-Inferno Wrote: I'm not talking about 1v1 battles in connecticut where you fly straight at each other jousting until one of you falls off the horse (...)
If that's your take on 1v1 it's no miracle that you're bad.
So you are saying the same thing that i am saying, even with slower ships, you would still win all the time.
It's just that everyone else would have a better time fighting.
i d disagree with the OP way - but not intention. - snub fights are adrenaline filled and fun ... the first 5 minutes, then it gradually becomes boring depending on the style.
what ruins it for me is that freelancer really is more like "descend" or "forsaken" ( old full 3d style shoot em ups ) - and that is because freelancer does something that other more serious "space simulators" do not do... and that is strafing.
ships in freelancer are not turning too fast - they do not fly too fast either - but the strafing is a pain - remove strafing and you get a playstyle like freespace, which is arguably a better snub vs. snub combat - although is it hard to compare because you play freespace with fixed guns and a joystick rather than semi turrets and a mouse.
so for me it is
- actually increase snubs thrust and non cruise speed - but remove or significantly reduce the strafing ability
the problem with strafe is that you can do both, keep your aim at the enemy easily - while at the same time throwing off the other persons aim ( who can do the same - so thats why it takes so long ) - also strafing effectivly is really a bit too easy.
without strafe, you have to choose a lot harder, because you really cannot aim well when you are corkscrewing / spiralling towards an enemy to make his aim harder.
that also offers more balancing options - like leave strafe to the sitting duck ships like SHF ( and you have to leave strafing to the capital ships, cause the autopilot and docking simply does not work without )
.... but point blank reducing their agility may not work so well.
on the other hand, i really rarely had 2 hours snub fights. - i had some that lasted around 20 min and could have dragged to 30 or longer if one side simply resorted to dodging only ( but how boring is that )
my main problem with strafing is that it is not a natural movement for spaceships ( not unlogical - but just subjectivly wagging left right, up down is not what i expect or want in a spacegame ) the only game that did strafing RIGHT was i-war 2... but that game is strictly pve and has significantly faster projectile speeds up to instant beams .. and its a joystick game )
Strafing is no unnatural movement in space to be honest. In space you can move around much more freely with much less problems. A normal plane for example can only go forward and turn (left, right -> limited rolling, z-axis) or roll (left, right -> x-axis / up, down -> y-axis). You need to fly in one direction, otherwise you fall down. Every motion you do is influenced by "falling down".
If you slapped on engines of the same power in all 6 directions (up, down, left, right, forward, backward), you'd end up being able to easily move around in all directions in space on the other hand. A helicopter comes a bit closer to what a space ship could do, but then again, even that thing is affected by "falling down constantly", and it moves much slower in comparision.
The problem about Freelancer is, as you mentioned, that the strafe speed is much higher than one would think it to be. Compare the (non-existent) imaginary small thrusters with the "massive" engine on the end, you'd expect a ship to only be able to stop rather slowly for example. And a small thruster would have only little effect. On another hand, unlike a plane, a spaceship can't just "roll left" to "turn left", there is no air or gas to glide through, all movements of the ship has to be adjusted by small thrusters and by turning the engine accordingly: if you turn your engine to the left for example, it will push the rear end of the ship to the right (if the engine is on the end of the ship), causing the main part of the mass to "turn left", straightening out the engine now will make it fly in the new direction and all. Of course another way to turn is to use front mounted thrusters, facing to the right and back mounted thruster facing to the left. Overall I have no idea why I'm telling you that, but heh.
Anyway, ... eh ... mh...
Well, thinking about it, strafing makes sense, to some degree, but the extreme stopping in 1 second without turning around and using the main engine to do so, doesn't. Normally you'd always be in "EK" mode in space. Accelerate in one direction and you keep going there until you hit something or a gravity well catches you.
Overall I just think the speed of the turning and strafing and such could be reduced though. LFs would be on VHF level, HFs a bit slower, VHF definatly slower. Bigger ships, slower as well.
Or higher projectile speeds.
Or simply less hull?
There are many possibilities to make fights "end faster" or to make them slower.
Wow, how many people actually read the OP before responding?
Anyway, what you're proposing would require a complete rebalance of every parameter of every ship, including (or especially) turn acceleration and strafe. Which are the primary defence against turret zoom "aimers". So no, don't want that at all. And besides, I don't feel that fights are too fast anyway.
(10-30-2013, 12:07 AM)Scumbag Wrote: The difference between you and me yber is that you post here on behalf of those who through hard work and dedication have managed to learn all the ins and outs of the game thus becoming the best.
I post on behalf of the many who come here to relax and enjoy a game. And they need to win sometimes. But to do that they would have to work hard and dedicate to the game thus defeating the purpose they came here for in the first place: to relax and enjoy.
Fights between equally "skilled" players take a long time... really? Nope.
I don't post on behalf of anyone. I'm talking from my own perspective which is the only correct one (doesn't imply other's are invalid, they're just not correct in my own, subjective way to think). Whether people feel identified with it or not is not my problem.
That said, training needn't be tiring, it can be relaxing and enjoyable (it is). On any game that takes into account the player's perfomance and not just parameters, those who "train" will always win a greater percentage of the fights.
What you're talking about is a game that only takes parameters to give a resolution, such as Tribal Wars, Gladiatus or The West.
To come to a conclusion: people do not need to pvp to enjoy this game as it's a RP one, not a pvp server. However you're saying you want to win in pvp doing from little to nothing to improve, which is not just unfair but illogical, and it's hopefully not going to happen.
The level difference (in terms of pvp knowledge) doesn't mean I'll always beat someone who's worse than I am. It just shows that I'll have the upper hand in the overall scenario.
(06-19-2016, 12:06 PM)Mao Wrote: inb4 Sirius gets renamed to XTF.
Fights between equally "skilled" players take a long time... really? Nope.
Those fights did last for quite a while, and that was 1v1 in Connecticut with no regens.
Now imagine those same fights in the real game with everybody using nanobots and shield batteries. Yeah, very, very long fights.
(10-30-2013, 10:34 AM)Tachyon Wrote:
(10-29-2013, 11:13 PM)TLI-Inferno Wrote: I'm not talking about 1v1 battles in connecticut where you fly straight at each other jousting until one of you falls off the horse (...)
If that's your take on 1v1 it's no miracle that you're bad.
I'm not bad, and that isn't how I fight, that's just how most people tend to 1v1 in Connecticut when they claim "fights don' last very long at all it's not a problem". Yeah, when you 1v1 in Conn with no regens and fly at each others' noses, obviously the fight won't last very long.
In the real fight, outside of Connecticut, fights against skilled opponents usually last for at least 10 minutes, often twenty, sometimes even half an hour, with all the constant evading and the use of nanobots and shield batteries.
i remember this thing from freeworlds where they gave fighters fast speeds and low agility so that each time you get a chance to shoot at the enemy will be more valuable or something.
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