' Wrote:one of the main reasons (i think) is the extremes in skill level in fighter sized craft. your either good or you suck, plain and simple. missles could level that gap in skill out so that people don't jump straight to capships.
Well.. this is not true... I have trained many people in fighters who were just hopeless first.. yet after only 1-2 hours of training they get to a normal average level.. or even better if they have talent.
After you are up over the average level (example.. don't eat SN on first pass.. , don't try to outturn a more agile craft.. just the very simple things...) all fights become rather close and depending a lot on luck/outside factors.
EDIT: Honestly... only problem I see with fighter missiles.. is that they don't hurt non-vanilla ships so much
Quote:capships would have hundreds of missles in reserve for extended fights. if missles become better, the only thing that would limite their use would be high energy consumption.
First... some gunboats are only twice the size of some bombers.. or even less :shok:.... so where would the "hundreds of missiles" be? Also.. if they are there... they surely do take some space.. so if capship missiles would take cargo space it's all fine by me.
Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.
' Wrote:Well.. this is not true... I have trained many people in fighters who were just hopeless first.. yet after only 1-2 hours of training they get to a normal average level.. or even better if they have talent.
After you are up over the average level all fights become rather close and depending a lot on luck/outside factors.
that's what i meant, the difference between average (meaning just about everyone) skilled players and the "talented" ones is huge.
' Wrote:First... some gunboats are only twice the size of some bombers.. or even less :shok:.... so where would the "hundreds of missiles" be? Also.. if they are there... they surely do take some space.. so if capship missiles would take cargo space it's all fine by me.
i would agree, the only problem is the universal ammo number. maybe if there is a way to make just gunboats use missle ammo and then have the other capships missile turrets take up cargo when you mount them like cap armor does. i could see that happening easily
Should we punish good pilots for being good by giving the less talented players a leg up?
I'm sorry, but if someone is a better pilot then they should win. Making missiles uber just so people can beat the better pilots is unfair on those that put the effort into getting good.
' Wrote:Should we punish good pilots for being good by giving the less talented players a leg up?
I'm sorry, but if someone is a better pilot then they should win. Making missiles uber just so people can beat the better pilots is unfair on those that put the effort into getting good.
' Wrote:that's what i meant, the difference between average (meaning just about everyone) skilled players and the "talented" ones is huge.
You actually didn't get it (or I didn't write it properly).. what I wanted to say.. than once you get to the average level (which is not really hard). It's so close that other factors (like number of ships on each side,cooperation and luck...) pay a much bigger role than the differences in skill.
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Otherwise I 100% agree with what blunt said.
IF you make missiles uber then:
1. there will still be people that can use them better than others.
2. PVP combat will become rather boring.
Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.
You seem to be using the term "elitism" to justify your point against his, which doesn't do it for me at all.
Maybe you think i'm elite too, I dunno, but it isn't elitism to suggest that people who put more effort into what they do get further in life.
For example, a school dropout usually drops out because he can't be bothered when asked to study. He could easily pass with top grades if he really wanted to and put in the effort, but he doesn't want to.
Should we make the test easier for these pupils so they dont drop out? Yes or No?
My answer to that is No. If they want to pass, they will try hard. The onus is on the pupil and not the commanding authority for the pupil to pass the test. Or in this case, become a better pilot.
It's not elitist, Dreygon. The better one wins, not the one who has more missiles.
If you think luck should determine who is going to win, we can just throw a dice instead of pvp-ing.
Edit : Nah, didn't see McNeo's post.. He explained it much better..
Anyway, I don't think this thread is for discussion, it's just to point out some things, discussions are done in separate threads.
Maybe making a new one?
Lucendez Wrote:
It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.
if you think making missles better is going to completely make them an uber weapon that slays all, then i disagree. an awesome pilot with adapt to change. all i'm suggesting is an "attempt" to level the playing field.
i don't fly my fighter much because i've only downed one fighter in a fight in it...out of dozens of fights that's not a very good percentage. now i'm not saying it's all about PVP, not by any means. the issue is when your PVP performance starts to affect your RP, not directly but by people thinking your not much of a challenge PVP wise and therefore ignoring you and your RP. THEN you change ships into a cap ship and are again a threat....weeellll then the RP returns. hence why i would think this has attributed (partly) to the capship problem. if not only in mind-set
if saying you want to limit the chances of people being your equal in combat isn't elitism then i'm not sure what would be.
Quote:if saying you want to limit the chances of people being your equal in combat isn't elitism then i'm not sure what would be.
This is where you misunderstand.
I am not saying I want to limit anything. You limit yourself by not fighting in a fighter, as you said your win percentage is poor. I am playing no part in you limiting your own flying ability.
When I started to train, I lost seven times in a day, with no wins. From each fight I learnt, because I wanted to be better. Unless you carry a similar mindset, dedication or the talent which I lack, you aren't going to get anywhere.
You should only rely on yourself to get better, or in some cases train with a good mate of yours. At no point does it become the responsibility of the commanding authority to make you a better fighter. As I said, the onus is entirely on you.
Those who have already learnt how to fly through various methods do not want their hard work to go to waste (hundreds of hours training and flying) because they are outnumbered and outvoiced by those who cant be bothered to put some effort into it and learn.
I am sure, for instance, that if all missiles were made a lot tougher, that people who fly in vanilla fighters would suffer even more than they already do. If this translated into a faction that uses vanilla ships exclusively getting missile raped, then I wouldn't blame them if they went ooRP to get a non-vanilla fighter, or even a capital ship fleet.
The solution to the problem you describe, about RP being affected by PvP, is easily solved when you make attributes you your character not associated with flying prowess. Think of PvP reliant RP as an incentive for becoming a better fighter.
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And yes, this may need to be split into another topic...
We have a consensus about improving certain weapons.
That is just a proposal, and should be taken only as a helping tool if you decide to improve some weapons.
I'm sure you can balance it better then I did.
All the reasons and whole discussion is there, so, please read when you have the time.
Main reason is Codes/Blasters/Krakens spammage.
Lucendez Wrote:
It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.
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