Corsairs and slavery

[ProfGiggles]

You speak as if you think these laws were made up on a whim without any reasons.

In my opinion it's up the the players to decide what the Corsairs and their characters are like. The lore is just the background history and general guidelines.

It's the Corsair council of elders that are enforcing these laws, but there is no one who says, that you can't actually do as you damn well please.

The only reason the Corsair council has any power is through official faction rights, and mind you there is only one official corsair faction left.
(besides the fact that the majority of the Corsair players seems to agree with the laws that has been put out, so maybe it didn't hinder them any in the first place)

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[chase.way]

And making them dig out artifacts for rich Don's isn't a use of nonCorsair ?

You give slaves minimal to survive and work, and with maximizing profit you import more food. Or send those who were previously working those jobs to smuggle/work on our ships/pirate.

Or you use robots to do the digging because they are actually cheaper in terms of the one resource you have a very limited amount of ie food, which really does then allow you to maximise your profits.

The problem with this entire argument is that everyone can come up with spurious reasons to do stuff, which makes it all a bit pointless doesn't it?

You are absolutely right, I forgot that we discovered robots on primus (gammu wherever).

Still there is this point. "Soon, Etna Base became a prominent destination for prisoners, captured pilots, and even civilians kidnapped and sold into slavery. "

So why not include this for sake of corsair smuggler players ? Import slaves, export human organs, I think we can both agree on that one.

Also, while people could come up with reasons to do stuff, this whole thread as pointed in first post was here to discuss it, unfortunately we as players often resort in fights and flaming. I think we gave good arguments for this to be implemented, and while opposite side had some good arguments, I think we can both see from this Etna info that Corsair are not that opposed to slavery.

And I would love to see more routes and smuggling activity from Corsair side, and adding something like this could just be the thing we need.

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Either way - when you let go, and stop holding on so tightly, life can actually be fun - you can't steer a train, but you can RIDE it!

[... kur nubėgo?]

In my opinion it's up the the players to decide what the Corsairs and their characters are like. The lore is just the background history and general guidelines.

Lore is frame you cannot exceed with your character. You have freedom within those frames to act like you want, but that's it. For everything else there is SRP. By changing lore or altering it you effect the frames within which all players playing that faction can operate or have their discretion.

Council making silly laws is one thing. It can be delt with in roleplay environment. Altering factions framework is totaly different thing. And this is what is happening currently.

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Omega Pirates Guild

History of OPG | Antonio "Vilkas" Devivar

[Slavik]

Still there is this point. "Soon, Etna Base became a prominent destination for prisoners, captured pilots, and even civilians kidnapped and sold into slavery. "

So why not include this for sake of corsair smuggler players ? Import slaves, export human organs, I think we can both agree on that one.

Also, while people could come up with reasons to do stuff, this whole thread as pointed in first post was here to discuss it, unfortunately we as players often resort in fights and flaming. I think we gave good arguments for this to be implemented, and while opposite side had some good arguments, I think we can both see from this Etna info that Corsair are not that opposed to slavery.

And I would love to see more routes and smuggling activity from Corsair side, and adding something like this could just be the thing we need.

Etna base and what happend there was acted upon IN LORE. The choice to ban harvesting and smuggling human organs was at one point something the council decision. However, with the current updates and changes to the storyline. This has become Lore. Yes actual in-game and forum RP player decisions influence lore. Who would've thought...

As Leon says, the smuggling slaves thing and not doing it is a corsair law. If you dont like that law. Either ignore it and deal with the RP consequences or get the council to change the law.

What I see here is a bunch of OPG members not liking something and publicly complaining about it. Yet the OPG are on the council themselves, accept that you have influence on this law and get it changed yourself. Although I've seen someone in the OPG yell that they don't accept the councils decisions...way to go...

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There used to be pictures here

once known as Richard Farbridge, OBE and Ronaldo Benitez

[chase.way]

Etna base and what happend there was acted upon IN LORE. The choice to ban harvesting and smuggling human organs was at one point something the council decision. However, with the current updates and changes to the storyline. This has become Lore. Yes actual in-game and forum RP player decisions influence lore. Who would've thought...

As Leon says, the smuggling slaves thing and not doing it is a corsair law. If you dont like that law. Either ignore it and deal with the RP consequences or get the council to change the law.

What I see here is a bunch of OPG members not liking something and publicly complaining about it. Yet the OPG are on the council themselves, accept that you have influence on this law and get it changed yourself. Although I've seen someone in the OPG yell that they don't accept the councils decisions...way to go...

Read the first post, this was opened for discussion, not as "OMG you must implement this or you suck"

Second, I'm sure we'll try to challenge this inRP in front of Council, but I don't see anything wrong to get feedback from community/other corsair players.

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Either way - when you let go, and stop holding on so tightly, life can actually be fun - you can't steer a train, but you can RIDE it!

[Laura C.]

In my opinion it's up the the players to decide what the Corsairs and their characters are like. The lore is just the background history and general guidelines.

Lore is frame you cannot exceed with your character. You have freedom within those frames to act like you want, but that's it. For everything else there is SRP. By changing lore or altering it you effect the frames within which all players playing that faction can operate or have their discretion.

Council making silly laws is one thing. It can be delt with in roleplay environment. Altering factions framework is totaly different thing. And this is what is happening currently.

Currently? I don´t remember Corsairs being into slavery/human trafficking all the time I´m playing here. How long have you been away? Even lore can change, even faction may evolve. And I don´t remember anybody who voiced desire for Corsairs doing slave business until this thread appeared.

As others said. You want play Corsairs this way? Go for it, I guess OPG doesn´t care about CoE anyway. But all I see in this thread is you (with one or two others) saying to other long-time Corsairs players "you all are playing Corsairs wrong, change those laws and allow slavery or you are not true Corsairs". Both sides had some points, but I really don´t see you as the one who "won". So letting slavery banned is same valid for me as allowing it (despite I personally like Corsairs as they are and were played currently, with honour and without slavery).

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On a ragebreak. Or ragequit. Time will tell.

[... kur nubėgo?]

Yes. I've been away for quite a while. Before I've stopped playing corsairs had no problems with human cargo. OPG was used other people as form of entertainment for themselves back in Cadiz. Later after OPG disbanded and Sails formed, Black Sails started to operate from Etna. Back at that time human organs and human cargo was a supplementary commodity to profit form along other other ways. Some players even run sair ID/IFF traders dealing with human cargo and it was all good and well. As you can see from Etna base infocard: sair were dealing in human cargo.

Now yes, I come back and I witness these changes, that suddenly all that RP is being ripped off corsair lore like it was never there. I have no problem if certain characters or CoE set new laws which reflected personal opinions of characters. And I'm cool with it as long as it was developed in roleplay and does not reflect sort of mandate what corairs are and in what corsairs should deal as a faction.

So I asked what are the reasons for this change. And yet I found no answer apart from "corsair honor", "moral code" or whatever for which I can't find basis in previuos corsair faction preset. So if it's not developed from previuos corsair faction preset, from where it is? Only other source is player personal feelings and biases. And if that's so, why these feelings and biases should become mandatory for my or any other character playing corsair, as long as they do abide the corsair faction framework?


I sure can deal with roleplay and it's consequences in game as long a changes were made solely for roleplay reasons and was derivative of previuos corsair lore. But if it's not, why should I limit my roleplay to the personal wishe of other player, when those wishes has no basis in corsair faction lore? And later suffer in-roleplay concequences for not abiding out of roleplay changes?

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Omega Pirates Guild

History of OPG | Antonio "Vilkas" Devivar

[chase.way]

deleted

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Either way - when you let go, and stop holding on so tightly, life can actually be fun - you can't steer a train, but you can RIDE it!

[Jose Benitez]

I'm getting a little confused.

Is this thread about Corsairs being involved with the slave trade, or Corsairs being involved with the selling of human organs?

The 2 are getting a bit confused - although it may well be we are now talking about both and have moved away a little from OP?

When the Corsair Laws were put in place I seem to recall that the OPG were sitting on the CoE and were active - they did not (that I recall) complain about the fact that slaves had been included on the "prohibited" list .

When the discussions took place with regard to Etna and the human organ trade I think it was the Black Sails that were on the CoE (might of been the OPG - my memory is not great at times), and again there was no major ruckus about the proposed change in Corsair policy.

The CoE has traditionally (whilst I was there at any rate) been more than simply an RP talking shop. It has also discussed many of the issues that affect Corsair RP at large - it was at least part of the original reason that there were some Indies involved on the Council as it was felt that "corsairs" in general should have some say.

To date (aside from Gentle's harem ) I have seen very little reason in this discussion to change things such that Corsairs would especially support the slave trade. Slaves are expensive to maintain (in terms of the commodity that Corsairs lack), and require specialist ships to trade in them with life support etc.

There was a suggestion that Corsairs might export slaves that had been captured in battle which would sort of make sense - and depending on your perspective might sit well with the honour aspect that some people have suggested applies to Corsairs? After all, selling a captured warrior into slavery would be more "honourable" than killing him out of hand, and much safer than returning him/her to their own people so that they can get into another ship and come shoot you again.

Then again, it might not. I'm also not sure how many slaves you'd be likely to capture from our normal activities? How many people are on the ships that Corsairs are likely to capture, and I've not recently seen anyone RP'ing the raid of any planets to capture slaves?

I guess you could start up a breeding program for slaves - but again that would likely be an issue with regard to food supplies?

[chase.way]

I was thinking of importing them so that we can support our human organs market (as we are biggest exports of it, but apparently not anymore). Also as we cooperate with junkers and rogues(not sure about rogues now?) they would bring slaves and haul artifacts. We using slaves would actually hurt Hessians and Outcasts,as we are taking their precious working force.

But I overlooked one big thing, as it was requested by Council and corsair players, I guess thats where official factions want to take Corsair lore, so be it. I don't agree, but majority of corsair players seem to agree with that. So if that is a case, I'm good, so be it. But its shame we don't suffer the consequences of our actions,such as : more corsairs dying, loosing our profit cut in organ market.

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Either way - when you let go, and stop holding on so tightly, life can actually be fun - you can't steer a train, but you can RIDE it!