Dublin is a bretonian system, property of the Queen where people from Essex fleet gave their life to defend it for centuries. This system is not only strong part of Bretonia RP but also a very sentimental one. Since .85 nothing have proven Molly to "deserve" Dublin and expect the kind Queen to give it away. A lot of things can be said about M - BAF relations but in short version - They hate each other more than ever and the Molly choice to join Gallia was the final box of oil sent in the eternal fire of our relations.
The Queen have spoken and her words were quite clear that no prisoners will be taken from any molly ship. They must die. Simple as that.
Giving away Dublin or accepting their independence will bring more problems and will hit the Lore harder than most of you would care to realize. Bretonia in its current stance maintain very few systems each with great importance. Loosing one is afflicting the RP, loosing two may lead to real problems.
The "Dublin" agreement btw Molly and Bretonia is very very complicated and this thread is not the place for delivering all opinions about it. But the short statement that Jeni and I have come to before years was that Molly will change if Dublin is been given to them. They will change from their very own Lore - which is all about getting Dublin. If they realize this plan - they can either turn in to BPA MK2, Privateers (working for Bretonia) or continue to be enemy with Bretonia - forgetting the fact it just gave them Dublin (Last statement is just lollol x 20)
For the sake of both Molly's goals and Bretonian future RP - this plan must never happen. Bretonia must never give away Dublin for there are better things to come and definitely better ideas instead to drop what we have for unknown sakes.
Event 2. "Doolittle" Raid on Corsair turf.
Event 2, proposed by Bret, is part of each BAF leader's ideas or thoughts - to bring something for its people to shoot at and most importantly - to RAID.
Raid option has been taken away from BAF for a very very long time. Its time this thing to change for its the only reason why BAF are forever defensive and never aggressive. To raid and gank is one otpion - to wait to be raided and ganked and answer with gank is another.
The faction cannot represent its good intentions by raiding something in the terms of fairness - simply because we never had this option.
Raiding Gamma may seems a bit exaggerated. Simply - Norfolk fleet is currently defending entire Cambridge and Omega -3. Leading pilots so deep in corsair territory is illogical. Nevertheless Bret idea is good but must be worked out especially the RAID element.
The reason why Bretonia did not get its "raid" option was Gallia - we could push back Kusari and fight there now - making both houses active. In fact we got 3rd party kicking away one of the participants - kusari - in to the grave of inactivity and grasping Bretonia with 150 battleships vs 30 (20) and loosing Leeds fast.
^ lore problems. So before we Raid we need a clear view of whats going to happen OR if what was supposed to happen is about to happen at .89-90. The original plan of kicking GRN away from leeds by half LN, entire BAF and "family friends" can lead to raid....why not raid Gallia with both Liberty and Bretonia? A good way to explore this forgotten land and bring something new...*sighs* Again we need lore powers in order to executre ingame actions.
Event 3. Bretonia's Surrender.
Simple answer - No.
Killing house, changing its origin away from the original plot will only remove the few players still working inside it.
Since .85 I never heard any leader of BAF to propose it even when Kusari had an upper hand. Even after Gallic invasion and etc. Gallia is strong in RP due to the Lore. If its been reworked to make it "fair" for the others - surrender will never be an option.
Bretonia right now is well protected from an aggressive attack like the one in Leeds. If we blowned both gates back then - maybe Leeds would still be here in Bretonia control. Sadly we had to follow the "Grand plan" of Gallia invasion step by step, presented by the devs with assurance that things will change after years to properly reflect the main lore and future of Bretonia.
Long ago the devs told me the lore history of Bretonia during .87,88,89 and 90 in short terms. 87 is example of that we knew what will happen and reacted to adapt to it. Other future expansions should be quite interesting for Gallia and how the tides of war are about to change but it depends if the lore remains same or is about to change...
In short - Why would we surrender Bretonia when we are closing to the end of the war and our victory?
(07-06-2014, 04:52 PM)FallenKnight Wrote: Event 1. Molly Independence of Dublin.
Dublin is a bretonian system, property of the Queen where people from Essex fleet gave their life to defend it for centuries. This system is not only strong part of Bretonia RP but also a very sentimental one. Since .85 nothing have proven Molly to "deserve" Dublin and expect the kind Queen to give it away. A lot of things can be said about M - BAF relations but in short version - They hate each other more than ever and the Molly choice to join Gallia was the final box of oil sent in the eternal fire of our relations.
The Queen have spoken and her words were quite clear that no prisoners will be taken from any molly ship. They must die. Simple as that.
Giving away Dublin or accepting their independence will bring more problems and will hit the Lore harder than most of you would care to realize. Bretonia in its current stance maintain very few systems each with great importance. Loosing one is afflicting the RP, loosing two may lead to real problems.
The "Dublin" agreement btw Molly and Bretonia is very very complicated and this thread is not the place for delivering all opinions about it. But the short statement that Jeni and I have come to before years was that Molly will change if Dublin is been given to them. They will change from their very own Lore - which is all about getting Dublin. If they realize this plan - they can either turn in to BPA MK2, Privateers (working for Bretonia) or continue to be enemy with Bretonia - forgetting the fact it just gave them Dublin (Last statement is just lollol x 20)
For the sake of both Molly's goals and Bretonian future RP - this plan must never happen. Bretonia must never give away Dublin for there are better things to come and definitely better ideas instead to drop what we have for unknown sakes.
Event 2. "Doolittle" Raid on Corsair turf.
Event 2, proposed by Bret, is part of each BAF leader's ideas or thoughts - to bring something for its people to shoot at and most importantly - to RAID.
Raid option has been taken away from BAF for a very very long time. Its time this thing to change for its the only reason why BAF are forever defensive and never aggressive. To raid and gank is one otpion - to wait to be raided and ganked and answer with gank is another.
The faction cannot represent its good intentions by raiding something in the terms of fairness - simply because we never had this option.
Raiding Gamma may seems a bit exaggerated. Simply - Norfolk fleet is currently defending entire Cambridge and Omega -3. Leading pilots so deep in corsair territory is illogical. Nevertheless Bret idea is good but must be worked out especially the RAID element.
The reason why Bretonia did not get its "raid" option was Gallia - we could push back Kusari and fight there now - making both houses active. In fact we got 3rd party kicking away one of the participants - kusari - in to the grave of inactivity and grasping Bretonia with 150 battleships vs 30 (20) and loosing Leeds fast.
^ lore problems. So before we Raid we need a clear view of whats going to happen OR if what was supposed to happen is about to happen at .89-90. The original plan of kicking GRN away from leeds by half LN, entire BAF and "family friends" can lead to raid....why not raid Gallia with both Liberty and Bretonia? A good way to explore this forgotten land and bring something new...*sighs* Again we need lore powers in order to executre ingame actions.
Event 3. Bretonia's Surrender.
Simple answer - No.
Killing house, changing its origin away from the original plot will only remove the few players still working inside it.
Since .85 I never heard any leader of BAF to propose it even when Kusari had an upper hand. Even after Gallic invasion and etc. Gallia is strong in RP due to the Lore. If its been reworked to make it "fair" for the others - surrender will never be an option.
Bretonia right now is well protected from an aggressive attack like the one in Leeds. If we blowned both gates back then - maybe Leeds would still be here in Bretonia control. Sadly we had to follow the "Grand plan" of Gallia invasion step by step, presented by the devs with assurance that things will change after years to properly reflect the main lore and future of Bretonia.
Long ago the devs told me the lore history of Bretonia during .87,88,89 and 90 in short terms. 87 is example of that we knew what will happen and reacted to adapt to it. Other future expansions should be quite interesting for Gallia and how the tides of war are about to change but it depends if the lore remains same or is about to change...
In short - Why would we surrender Bretonia when we are closing to the end of the war and our victory?
(07-06-2014, 04:52 PM)FallenKnight Wrote: ***HUGE TEXT WALL***
What a pile of self claimed facts xD
* what a pile of ancient self-claimed facts (corrected that for you XD). im seeing a lot of "long ago" and "years ago". maybe its time for a refresh? afterall, the dev team now isnt the same one feom "long ago". same with faction leaders.
You can laugh like curious or mark my words like "self claimed facts", it doesn't matter. What matters is that for - so long - nothing have changed on Bretonian side. People that were and are still here can support this. This thread as a whole is one fact - that bretonian players are going so desperately to give away Dublin...attack Omicron Gamma (out of ZOI) or even surrender the entire House for the sake of...SOMETHING new to happen.
People change but facts remain still. "Ancient" "self-claimed facts" - terrorize Bretonia and yes - most of us want a change, want to raid, want to have fun NOT to remain silent like during the "ancient" times you describe them or be sarcastic to those that care for their ZOI in disco.
PS: Friday told me what will happen to Bretonia. I assisted Bretonia change at .87, little story, fleet movement, progression and fututure. Call it self claimed - I dont care. What matters is what will happen but the past is of great importance to Bretonia for most of its problems lies there.
(07-06-2014, 05:38 PM)FallenKnight Wrote: You can laugh like curious or mark my words like "self claimed facts", it doesn't matter. What matters is that for - so long - nothing have changed on Bretonian side. People that were and are still here can support this. This thread as a whole is one fact - that bretonian players are going so desperately to give away Dublin...attack Omicron Gamma (out of ZOI) or even surrender the entire House for the sake of...SOMETHING new to happen.
People change but facts remain still. "Ancient" "self-claimed facts" - terrorize Bretonia and yes - most of us want a change, want to raid, want to have fun NOT to remain silent like during the "ancient" times you describe them or be sarcastic to those that care for their ZOI in disco.
PS: Friday told me what will happen to Bretonia. I assisted Bretonia change at .87, little story, fleet movement, progression and fututure. Call it self claimed - I dont care. What matters is what will happen but the past is of great importance to Bretonia for most of its problems lies there.
You really need to let go, y'know. You haven't been playing in forever and outdated bitter opinions have never helped an issue. (This applies to me as well, so I'll refrain from posting my take on this.)
(07-06-2014, 04:52 PM)FallenKnight Wrote: another outstanding "bias-free" FallenKnight™ post
Have you any actual suggestions as to what could be done to get rid of all the dust in Bretonia's clapped-out storyline, other than 'revitalising' the same old tired Leeds fights that have been going on since the days of the Bret-Kusari war?
Here's a tip: everyone who has been around for that long - and a sizable proportion of those who haven't - is mighty damn sick of seeing the turd-brown clouds of Leeds.
If you don't actually have any ideas to contribute, and simply poked your nose back in to remind us all (lest we forget!) that the Bretonia in your head is an unstoppable Mary Sue, no matter how much lore gets thrown your way, then I'd prefer it if you just stopped posting altogether.
edit: wtf rod you're meant to have quit already stop ninjaing me ;_;
@Rodent thx for the advice. I heard you quit. I am on vacation away from ingame FL but still around and thats the only reason why i still bother with Bretonia Nevertheless I see what you mean and I appreciate it.
@Omicega
Leeds is in the past. But your sarcastic opinion about me haven't changed. Indeed there was a time when things were unclear to me and Indeed I did make a thread of how to save Leeds but back then - i simply had no idea whats up to come. After that I let it go and followed the lore as the devs wanted it to be.
Leeds is booring and most bretonian players know that. Very few remain since .85 but dont get us wrong - none of us want to spend its 60% disco time from bretonia side in the HD Leeds
My first post here was to analyze and put opinion about Bret's thread like he requested. Not to "put my nose around". I am still part of WC, my char i still active and I dont think its polite for you to tell me to stay away from an important thread about future ideas about Bretonia.
You are right about one thing thought:
(07-06-2014, 05:54 PM)Omicega Wrote: Have you any actual suggestions as to what could be done to get rid of all the dust in Bretonia's clapped-out storyline, other than 'revitalising' the same old tired Leeds fights that have been going on since the days of the Bret-Kusari war?
Yes, I do have a lot of ideas and if you insist I will put some of them here:
1. Privateer ID/ QCP - The group to be finally revived as an active separated faction. This ID allows for significant RP to be done outside of Bretonia which may inflict some changes to the Lore and overall bring something new to bretonian players. By being in alliance with Council QCP can go to guerilla plundering operations around Bretonia - attacking GRN reinforcements, trading ships with supplies and even going to Gallia (with some rework on the ID). Together they can "bring the fight inside Gallia. Hit and run operations, disrupting the flow of goods coming to Leeds and things like that.
Special events can be done like assaulting important GRN installations and maybe even kidnapping important personel from their government with mutual understanding (OORP) ofc.
2. BIS ID/BIS| - to be finally active like LSF|. Especially with the new nomad intelligence weapons - a lot of RP opportunity is out there. Events with Order, missions inside Omicrons. Considering the alliance with Liberty perhaps BIS and LSF can work together in their battle with the nomads, researching new technology for their houses and ....giving activity to nomads as well. With the new cloaking technology a lot of investigations and special reconnaissance missions can be done in order to bring secret data, chat logs and things like that which WC can use as it find well.
Special events of bringing incubi in Bretonia, wilder specific attacks, kidnapping of important personal from WC and etc.
3. Molly - to finally make a final stance from which things can be debated more clearly. If they choose Gallia - WC will know how to proceed with them or if they happen to assist QCP on stages - perhaps one day "giving away Dublin" may not look so impossible like now.
Overall - more RP is needed to be done but the shifting nature of Molly is making things to stall.
4. LN - must finally join the fray in Leeds or arrive with fleets - like moving specific battleship/base of their own somewhere close to reflect these actions. The new battlefield may be Manchester where LN/BAF and GRN can clash for something like a pre-final battle. After that the lore should guide the results.
5. BAF - is unable to do anything at this current stance. A new clear lore is required in order to guide their actions. BAF is the military of the house - if the house is set to fall/surrender - they are going down with it (or like KNF).
Nevertheless there are some possibilities:
5.1 BIS to assist BAF in organising meetings between Kusari separatists WC and Bret WC. To discuss possible alliance in order to remove Gallia influence from Sirius or push them back.
5.2 BAF, as guerilla force now instead of an actual force to raid - can send small fleet in Kusari and help them battle GRN (Changing the area will be good for bret players and reviving kusari in their possible civil war will rejuvenate their activity)
5.3 KNF may send small fleet and assist BAF, similar like Ronins were.
6. Rework on Inverness - which is listed as bretonian system. Building installations, making it to look like bretonian system with neighbors junkers. (Considering the facts bretonia did not get New Anglia and Cambria - making such actions may be the right thing to do) Inverness is far away and may bring new atmosphere to RP with instead the normal (NL>Leeds>Dub>Cam).
7. Raid Force - If QCP and Council score hits in Gallia - BAF can reinforce them with small fleet of carrier/destroyers/a lot of bombers and figthers. BAF| players can then fight in Gallia further disrupting their flow of goods and in this ways assisting the LN/BAF forces fighting in Manchester/Leeds.
Sadly - all these things are strictly dependent on the Lore. All these ideas can be realized but some of them require ID rework and a lot of factions to agree. The worst part is that Bretonia in its defensive stance may not be able to support such actions and players may say "its impossible to go there and do that". But belive me people want a change. And if possible to be soon.
These ideas so far would bring only activity to: QCP, BIS, BAF, KNF, GRN, GRP, LN, LSF, Nomads, Wilders, Order, Council and some other parties like gallic, bretonian, kusari unlawfuls.
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(07-06-2014, 04:52 PM)FallenKnight Wrote: Event 3. Bretonia's Surrender.
Simple answer - No. Killing house, changing its origin away from the original plot will only remove the few players still working inside it.
Surrendering doesn't mean that Bretonia is renamed to New Gallia or that all Bretonian factions cease to exist. It means that Bretonia's leadership attempts to keep its house from complete destruction by coming to an agreement with Gallia's leadership. After that point, I suspect the GRN's role will be to act like an occupation force. "Bullying" certain factions and individuals within Bretonia from time to time, basically.
It changes up the roleplay for Bretonian factions as well as GRN. Especially the latter could benefit a great deal as, let's be honest, it's currently limited to being a PvP faction. Unlike other military factions in more populated houses, there's no real point to doing things like patrolling the lanes and, you know, roleplaying (without guns).
It also makes for some interesting diplomatic changes. I'm going to guess Liberty won't appreciate an allied nation surrendering to Gallia (although they'll understand Bretonia doesn't have much of a choice, I guess). If Gallia then starts pushing into Liberty, it seems only logical that Liberty would call up their allies and request they do whatever they can to help.
(07-06-2014, 04:52 PM)FallenKnight Wrote: Event 3. Bretonia's Surrender.
Simple answer - No. Killing house, changing its origin away from the original plot will only remove the few players still working inside it.
Surrendering doesn't mean that Bretonia is renamed to New Gallia or that all Bretonian factions cease to exist. It means that Bretonia's leadership attempts to keep its house from complete destruction by coming to an agreement with Gallia's leadership. After that point, I suspect the GRN's role will be to act like an occupation force. "Bullying" certain factions and individuals within Bretonia from time to time, basically.
It changes up the roleplay for Bretonian factions as well as GRN. Especially the latter could benefit a great deal as, let's be honest, it's currently limited to being a PvP faction. Unlike other military factions in more populated houses, there's no real point to doing things like patrolling the lanes and, you know, roleplaying (without guns).
It also makes for some interesting diplomatic changes. I'm going to guess Liberty won't appreciate an allied nation surrendering to Gallia (although they'll understand Bretonia doesn't have much of a choice, I guess). If Gallia then starts pushing into Liberty, it seems only logical that Liberty would call up their allies and request they do whatever they can to help.
@Haste, well said. We've been discussing this before but look at Kusari. If surrender like this is realized, Bretonia will change drastically and a lot of players will leave leading to inactivity as a whole. That is simply not the way or at least not the right time to do such a thing. Gallia is currently focusing on Liberty why would Bretonia surrender after all that Liberty have done for them? A lot more logical steps could be done in order to follow the Lore or re-write it.
I am sure most players of disco would not want a Kusari MK2 or a Ravaged Bretonia - Killed/Humiliated Queen, Ruined Capital, Cambridge with Corsair Schools, Dublin with full Molly control, Limited BAF forces, Destruction of ships, Imprisonment or execution of civilians and more. These things are logical to happen if Bretonia surrenders. And most of them are really heavy things - that will afflict the Lore beyond repair.