A doubt about IDs

[KaiserDietz]

To add onto what glassofwater said. You can still engage the person, but not under the stipulation of the ID that OP mentioned. It is within roleplay to attack someone later on an iRP grudge.

[Mímir]

Nooblet, thanks. Does what get a rise out of what? We were discussing something, he asked me to follow his thought experiment, and so I did. His rebuttal was that I am some kind of demon. How's that fair?

And am I wrong in my original assessment that he wants to militarize Zoners? Not by his admission, and not by yours - so what is the problem?

I also never said I am just here for arguments, I said I like to argue and discuss, and I do. Don't see a problem in that, how does that rule one out of the debate?

There's quite a big difference between TAZ defending themselves against the Order on one hand, and the idea of deathsquads on the other. That's not what TAZ is going for, and besides if they truly are in direct conflict with the Order, they'll have plenty of opportunity to defend themselves, which again has nothing to do with this discussion, as we all agree that everyone is allowed to do that.

I also didn't say militant - I said militarized. I also never advocated for Zoners all being pot-smokers, I simply tried to put into context what is the pivotal aspect of Zoners - the neutrality their very existence depend on. That can be played out in many ways, first and foremost through proxies, but it seems like in some people's minds, direct brute force is the only answer to whatever pickles Zoners might find themselves in. Zoner neutrality has nothing to do with pacifism, it's not a moral choice or inclination - it has to do with survival under extremely harsh conditions.

I also never said Tel was crazy, that's your words. I don't think so, why on earth would I think that? Do also keep in mind that the topic was never whether or not it was within roleplay to remember what happened yesterday, no. We are discussing a few specific lines on an ID that has to do with rules, balance and a lot of other things that aren't directly linked to "realism". If we were discussing whether or not it would be reasonable to remember what happened yesterday, I wholeheartedly agree: Of course you would remember. But this discussion is about something entirely different. I also think "it's personal" should be left out of this game, absolutely nothing good will come from it. It is, afterall, a game - can't stress that point often enough.

Thank you though, for your concluding remarks. Do you really think it is reasonable to take a stab at me? Why not keep your eyes on the ball?

Honestly, I am a little disappointed in your post. If you wanted to perform a character assassination, you should at least do your homework a little bit better.


Anyways, what happened to that lock?

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[Sabru]

* Sabru attempts to summon the dancing lock.

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[n00bl3t]

Nooblet, thanks. Does what get a rise out of what? We were discussing something, he asked me to follow his thought experiment, and so I did. His rebuttal was that I am some kind of demon. How's that fair?

And am I wrong in my original assessment that he wants to militarize Zoners? Not by his admission, and not by yours - so what is the problem?

I also never said I am just here for arguments, I said I like to argue and discuss, and I do. Don't see a problem in that, how does that rule one out of the debate?

There's quite a big difference between TAZ defending themselves against the Order on one hand, and the idea of deathsquads on the other. That's not what TAZ is going for, and besides if they truly are in direct conflict with the Order, they'll have plenty of opportunity to defend themselves, which again has nothing to do with this discussion, as we all agree that everyone is allowed to do that.

I also didn't say militant - I said militarized. I also never advocated for Zoners all being pot-smokers, I simply tried to put into context what is the pivotal aspect of Zoners - the neutrality their very existence depend on. That can be played out in many ways, first and foremost through proxies, but it seems like in some people's minds, direct brute force is the only answer to whatever pickles Zoners might find themselves in.

I also never said Tel was crazy, that's your words. I don't think so, why on earth would I think that? Do also keep in mind that the topic was never whether or not it was within roleplay to remember what happened yesterday, no. We are discussing a few specific lines on an ID that has to do with rules, balance and a lot of other things that aren't directly linked to "realism". If we were discussing whether or not it would be reasonable to remember what happened yesterday, I wholeheartedly agree: Of course you would remember. But this discussion is about something entirely different. I also think "it's personal" should be left out of this game, absolutely nothing good will come from it. It is, afterall, a game - can't stress that point often enough.

Thank you though, for your concluding remarks. Do you really think it is reasonable to take a stab at me? Why not keep your eyes on the ball?

Honestly, I am a little disappointed in your post. If you wanted to perform a character assassination, you should at least do your homework a little bit better.


Anyways, what happened to that lock?

It's nothing about character assassination. Apologies, didn't meant to cause offence. Was suggesting to Zen Mechanics how best to handle responses on the forum in future, as well as your modus operandi. It was intended to be accurate, not damning. Forgive me here, but you're not that important to me since you rarely interact with me. No idea what homework is about.

You're incorrect because Zoners are already militarized. Space libertarians, not space pacifists, again.

There's no problem in being here for arguments, I was informing Zen Mechanics of your purpose.

I don't think anyone's suggesting a deathsquad for no reason. Zen's post refers to coming across a previous aggressor and preventing them from causing further damage.

Force is one option, and sometimes it's open to be used. Glad we agree on that point.

Militarized does not mean military either.

Implying he's crazy and repeating like a broken record by bringing up his history of posts along this topic.

"It's personal" to the character, not the player. Learn to differentiate.

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Mímir]

It's nothing about character assassination. Apologies, didn't meant to cause offence. Was suggesting to Zen Mechanics how best to handle responses on the forum in future, as well as your modus operandi. It was intended to be accurate, not damning. Forgive me here, but you're not that important to me since you rarely interact with me. No idea what homework is about.

Maybe think an extra time before your post if you don't want these "misunderstandings" to occur? It is as offensive as it is immature.

You're incorrect because Zoners are already militarized.

That's news to me. I might indeed be wrong. Can you show me where you get this from in the Zoner lore? I'm not talking assets here, because if you look at the Zoner shipline you are obviously right.

There's no problem in being here for arguments, I was informing Zen Mechanics of your purpose.

See my first point again. What on earth do you know of "my purpose"?

I don't think anyone's suggesting a deathsquad for no reason. Zen's post refers to coming across a previous aggressor and preventing them from causing further damage.

So a "precautionary defense"? How does that fly, technically speaking? What effect does it have on this mod if we expand the meaning of "self-defense" to also encompass this? Also, why not wait until they are actually going to cause further damage, you'd be golden in terms of the ID?

Militarized does not mean military either.

Correct.

Implying he's crazy and repeating like a broken record by bringing up his history of posts along this topic.

I can't be the master of how you interpret things. All I can say that the thought never even crossed my mind. I do not think Tel is crazy, I don't know why we are even discussing another person who isn't present currently like this, it does in fact make me kind of uncomfortable, but at the same turn I feel like I should defend myself against wild accusations regarding my personal sentiments. I would, however, prefer to have that discussion with Tel in private, if that is how he feels. It's not really any of your business.

"It's personal" to the character, not the player. Learn to differentiate.

The problem is, few people do when all is said and done. You see the level people get invested in this game, emotionally too, and be honest, don't you think you - on a personal level - harbor some animosity towards me?

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[n00bl3t]

It's nothing about character assassination. Apologies, didn't meant to cause offence. Was suggesting to Zen Mechanics how best to handle responses on the forum in future, as well as your modus operandi. It was intended to be accurate, not damning. Forgive me here, but you're not that important to me since you rarely interact with me. No idea what homework is about.

Maybe think an extra time before your post if you don't want these "misunderstandings" to occur?

You're incorrect because Zoners are already militarized. Space libertarians, not space pacifists, again.

That's news to me. I might indeed be wrong. Can you show me where you get this from in the Zoner lore?

There's no problem in being here for arguments, I was informing Zen Mechanics of your purpose.

See my first point again. What on earth do you know of "my purpose"?

I don't think anyone's suggesting a deathsquad for no reason. Zen's post refers to coming across a previous aggressor and preventing them from causing further damage.

So a "precautionary defense"? How does that fly, technically speaking? What effect does it have on this mod if we expand the meaning of "self-defense" to also encompass this?

Militarized does not mean military either.

Correct.

Implying he's crazy and repeating like a broken record by bringing up his history of posts along this topic.

I can't be the master of how you interpret things. All I can say that the thought never even crossed my mind. I do not think Tel is crazy, I don't know why we are even discussing another person who isn't present currently like this, it does in fact make me kind of uncomfortable, but at the same turn I feel like I should defend myself against wild accusations regarding my personal sentiments.

"It's personal" to the character, not the player. Learn to differentiate.

The problem is, few people do. You see the level people get invested in this, and be honest, don't you think you - on a personal level - harbor some animosity towards me?

I also never said I am just here for arguments, I said I like to argue and discuss, and I do. Don't see a problem in that, how does that rule one out of the debate?

That is your modus operandi. This is what I was informing Zen Mechanics of. By your own words.

Don't know what Zoner lore document you're reading, but perhaps you should share it. Quite sure the official factions agree with space libertarian and not pacifist too. Doesn't make sense to be pacifist in dangerous areas of space.

Precautionary defence? Like how a Zoner character mounts guns on their ships? You're trying to separate the issue here. The issue is with a previous aggressor returning to an area, not an innocent bystander which you suddenly start shooting.

If that was not what you were implying by bringing up Zen's posts, then what purpose did it serve?

I don't know who you are and I don't care. No feeling either way. It's just a game.

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Mímir]

So we are in a discussion on a forum and you can reveal that I like to discuss, and that, when discussing, it is my modus operandi to discuss. Ok.

You keep up with the strawmen. For the umptieth time, I never said Zoners are pacisfists.

Also, there is of course a fine line. If the guy attacks you, flees and returns moments later, I don't think anyone would take offence to you shooting him - I don't even think a troll would be bothered to report it, and I also think admins would dismiss it. The problem is the "next day", because that is when it takes the form of vengeance rather than active defense.

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[n00bl3t]

So we are in a discussion on a forum and you can reveal that I like to discuss, and that, when discussing, it is my modus operandi to discuss. Ok.

You keep up with the strawmen. For the umptieth time, I never said Zoners are pacisfists.

Also, there is of course a fine line. If the guy attacks you, flees and returns moments later, I don't think anyone would take offence to you shooting him - I don't even think a troll would be bothered to report it, and I also think admins would dismiss it. The problem is the "next day", because that is when it takes the form of vengeance rather than active defense.

Perhaps I should explain it further.

Zen's post seemed irritated that you weren't getting it and his arguments ride on emotion/passion.

That doesn't sway you and was pointless, so I was suggesting a different tack for him to take since he seemed to be getting heated and I don't want him banned.

Explain where I used a straw man with direct quotation. Quite sure my original post said "people" and not "Mimir", but I could have typed incorrectly.

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Mímir]

Ofc he wouldn't be banned! I'd never dream of reporting someone over something ridiculous like this - moreover what rule is broken? In fact I wrote him a PM in a very civil tone suggesting that he and I talk about this, as it seemed to affect him. Perhaps that was what you should have done too, if your aim was his well-being, as you say it is?

And here's your most recent example of a straw man:

Quite sure the official factions agree with space libertarian and not pacifist too.

Right after I clearly said that Zoners are not pacifists. Anyways, I'm out - this is getting too ridiculous.

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[Gypsie Skripto]

Hi, I'm here to politely ask again that some Mod close this thread, which has derailed into Forum PvP.

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